OT: I think Obama is done
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/13/2008 2:46 PM
Calling religious people and gun owners bitter is the absolute worst thing you could say to people whose votes you need
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izybx
Posts: 22366 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 10/16/2006 Member: #1178 USA |
4/14/2008 3:43 AM
Posted by Bonn1997: He only said that because thats how he feels. Most ivy league educated peer down their noses at the rest of the common folk. The only way that he wins is if Mccain dies. Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/14/2008 6:49 AM
Posted by izybx:Posted by Bonn1997: I'm sure it is how he feels and it's probably how 40% of the population feels. It's a legitimate, common feeling. But it's not the way to win an election. |
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playa2
Posts: 34922 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 5/15/2003 Member: #407 |
4/14/2008 12:49 PM
maybe he knows that and chooses not to be politically correct on purpose.
Could save him from being shot! [Edited by - playa2 on 14-04-2008 12:50]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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BigSm00th
Posts: 24504 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/9/2001 Member: #178 USA |
4/14/2008 2:12 PM
A few days ago, Barack spoke about the frustrations that working people in this country are feeling and said what we all know is true: that many people are bitter and angry because they believe their government isn't listening to them.
You and I both know that the hope of changing that reality is what drives the unprecedented support for this campaign from ordinary people in every part of the country. But our opponents have been spinning the media and peddling fake outrage around the clock. John McCain's campaign, which will continue the George Bush economic policies that have devastated the middle class, called Barack out of touch and elitist. And Hillary Clinton, who is the candidate who said lobbyists represent real people, didn't just echo the Republican candidate's talking points: she actually used the very same words to pile on with more attacks. These comments show just how out of touch Senator McCain and Senator Clinton are with the reality of what's happening in this election. We've built the broadest campaign of ordinary people in the history of presidential politics -- and more people across this country have voted for Barack Obama than either one of them. And we've done it the right way: our campaign is funded by everyday people giving $5 or more. That's distinctly different from Senator McCain and Senator Clinton, who both rely on money from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs. There's nothing elitist about a movement of more than a million people standing up for a different kind of politics. #Knickstaps
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/14/2008 2:19 PM
Posted by BigSm00th: |
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BigSm00th
Posts: 24504 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/9/2001 Member: #178 USA |
4/14/2008 2:31 PM
Bonn, I think you are missing the point. Here is what Obama said at the SF fundraising event:
"So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to "white working-class don't wanna work - don't wanna vote for the black guy." That's, well there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today that kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing. That's how it is. Here's what it is. In a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by, it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laughter), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter). But the questions you're most likely to get about me, "Well, yeah, what's this guy gonna to do for me? What's the concrete thing?" What they wanna hear is, you know so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing to close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. We'll go and have a series of talking points. But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's no evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, a lot like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy towards people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." He did not specifically target "religious people and gun owners." That is, in fact, entirely missing the point. He targeted people who vote "because of their religion" for a candidate, because they are told at Mass on Sunday by their Pastor "If you don't vote for _____, then gay marriage will be legalized and gays will be getting married left and right" or you have people who vote "because I want to own a gun" because they are told "the Democrats are going to repeal the 2nd Amendment and you won't be able to own a gun." Thus, he isn't issueing a blanket statement about religious people and gun owners, he is targeting the people who vote on these issues and only these issues BECAUSE they have no other issues to vote for. I'll give you an example of this, my roommate was in Iowa before the caucus and he was doing door-to-door work for Obama. At a TRAILER PARK he knocked on a door and the guy who answered said "I won't vote for Obama. First of all, I ain't voting for a Muslim, second, I'm a Republican for economic reasons, and finally, I'm a Christian and don't want gays getting married." So here's a guy who lives in a trailer park who is a Republican for economic reasons (I'll allow the irony to seep in) and because he fears gay marriage's legalization because of his religion. That's how he's going to vote, and I think you could argue that guy is pretty damn bitter, since he's been thoroughly abandoned by state and federal government and now how does this guy vote, by what he hears at the pulpit on Sunday and because he thinks Obama is Muslim. #Knickstaps
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izybx
Posts: 22366 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 10/16/2006 Member: #1178 USA |
4/14/2008 2:42 PM
Barak Obama is just more of the same old thing. I actually was a fan of his until the last couple months when I realized about the type of man he is. He is not a guy who is trying to bring about "change", or someone who embraces "a different type of politics".
Ive seen him twist the words of other candidates in the same manner that every politician has done before him (and is being done to him now). Ive seen that some of the biggest influences in his personal life (his wife and pastor) appear to be staunchly antiamerican. Ive found out that he will tell you in one breath that he is for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq but will also keep enough troops there to maintain American interests (which is it?). This guy is not the savior. He is not different from the rest. He is an eloquent speaker and an intelligent man, and thats it. Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
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BigSm00th
Posts: 24504 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/9/2001 Member: #178 USA |
4/14/2008 2:52 PM
izybx, could you give an example of when he has misquoted somebody?
his wife is anti-american b/c she wasn't proud of america the last decade? (a quote that was taken out of context). also, who do you think is a better candidate? #Knickstaps
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/14/2008 3:55 PM
He did not specifically target "religious people and gun owners." That is, in fact, entirely missing the point. He targeted people who vote "because of their religion" for a candidate, because they are told at Mass on Sunday by their Pastor "If you don't vote for _____, then gay marriage will be legalized and gays will be getting married left and right" or you have people who vote "because I want to own a gun" because they are told "the Democrats are going to repeal the 2nd Amendment and you won't be able to own a gun." Thus, he isn't issueing a blanket statement about religious people and gun owners, he is targeting the people who vote on these issues and only these issues BECAUSE they have no other issues to vote for.Good luck trying to sell that distinction to the public. We Democrats will need A LOT of luck if we're relying on people appreciating that distinction. |
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BigSm00th
Posts: 24504 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/9/2001 Member: #178 USA |
4/14/2008 4:10 PM
Trying to sell it? Read the speech, its pretty obvious. Asking the public to rely more on soundbytes and media hype/spin is what Obama is about to me, the People should be informed. To not be informed is to be duped by the Media, its one or the other. The Obama campaign has been about opening people's eyes to this, hence its insane, historic, unprecedentend amount of voters registered, money raised, and amount of donors in a campaign.
#Knickstaps
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/14/2008 4:25 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:You're not gonna fundamentally change human nature. People rely on sound bytes and will for the foreseeable future. All their favorite TV programs do and people are addicted to TV. People have jobs, hobbies, sports, friends, partners, children, etc. that they dedicate their time to. They're not gonna read the full text of political speeches. One of the key components of being a smart, successful politician is NOT making ambiguous remarks that can very easily be distorted on very touchy topics. Obama really screwed up on that front. |
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Silverfuel
Posts: 31750 Alba Posts: 3 Joined: 6/27/2002 Member: #268 USA |
4/14/2008 5:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:Thats not necessarily true. Do you know how many times George Bush made ambiguous remarks that were easily distorted? Obama can easily win this thing, even if he loses Pennsylvania.Posted by BigSm00th:You're not gonna fundamentally change human nature. People rely on sound bytes and will for the foreseeable future. All their favorite TV programs do and people are addicted to TV. People have jobs, hobbies, sports, friends, partners, children, etc. that they dedicate their time to. They're not gonna read the full text of political speeches. One of the key components of being a smart, successful politician is NOT making ambiguous remarks that can very easily be distorted on very touchy topics. Obama really screwed up on that front. If we vote McCain into office because of what Obama said in his response then we are being pretty damn ignorant. If we vote McCain into office, we deserve the high gas prices. We deserve the money pit in Iraq. We deserve the ****ed up economy. We deserve being spied on and we deserve having our rights taken away. If we vote McCain into office because of what Wright said, we deserve another 4 years of Republicans and everything they bring with them. We are reaping what we sowed with Bush and we better wake up and start making smart decisions. If we still rely on sound bites, then we deserve to get ****ed. If others are going to distort his quotes then we can clarify it by challenging those that buy into that distorted view. I suggest we do our part by educating those around us of what he said. Its people like us that talk about politics that can bring this to other peoples attention. We can stop others from distorting his good intentions. Or we could just sit around not do nothing and say Obama is the right guy for the job but we are powerless because FOXNEWS is distorting his quotes. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
4/14/2008 8:08 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:Posted by Bonn1997:Thats not necessarily true. Do you know how many times George Bush made ambiguous remarks that were easily distorted? Obama can easily win this thing, even if he loses Pennsylvania.Posted by BigSm00th:You're not gonna fundamentally change human nature. People rely on sound bytes and will for the foreseeable future. All their favorite TV programs do and people are addicted to TV. People have jobs, hobbies, sports, friends, partners, children, etc. that they dedicate their time to. They're not gonna read the full text of political speeches. One of the key components of being a smart, successful politician is NOT making ambiguous remarks that can very easily be distorted on very touchy topics. Obama really screwed up on that front. Bush made lots of mis-statements. The problem is Democrats never take advantage of them. They let Republicans frame almost every issue that is debated. Republicans will make Obama or Hillary pay for every mis-statement. They know how this game works much better than the Democrats do. Now, I'll aid Obama in trying to clarify his comments but he's gotta do his part too (and first). So far he hasn't done anything except dig deeper over the past four days. I still don't even know what he meant or what he was trying to achieve with the comments? Who was he targeting and how did he think the comments would help his country or his party? What was the goal of his comments? If I can't answer any of those questions, I can't clarify his comments. |
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BigSm00th
Posts: 24504 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/9/2001 Member: #178 USA |
4/14/2008 8:21 PM
the goal of his comments, in my opinion, were to win over the blue collar white vote that has eluded him so far. did you watch the video i posted, if so, what is your response? i think the point of his comments, as he explains in the video, is that he is an alternative to voting simply along faith or 2nd amendment lines b/c you have no other issues that pertain to you and politicians don't give a rats ass about you.
i would put hillary clinton in the same exact category as the GOP in terms of her propensity to take things out of context, use things to her advantage, etc. she is a career politician and is an expert as well. #Knickstaps
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Silverfuel
Posts: 31750 Alba Posts: 3 Joined: 6/27/2002 Member: #268 USA |
4/14/2008 8:59 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:Thats exactly my point. They are playing games. They played games for 8 years and if we don't wise up, we are going to get played. Its up to you and me to wise up and help others do the same. Its possible. Now, I'll aid Obama in trying to clarify his comments but he's gotta do his part too (and first). So far he hasn't done anything except dig deeper over the past four days.He hasn't dug himself in deeper. If he is in trouble with voters, its with those voters that would never vote for him. I don't think any registered democrats are voting for McCain over him saying people are sick of the government not providing for its people. I still don't even know what he meant or what he was trying to achieve with the comments? Who was he targeting and how did he think the comments would help his country or his party? What was the goal of his comments? If I can't answer any of those questions, I can't clarify his comments.Dude, they are pretty straight forward. Like BigSmooth said, he was trying to convince the blue collar communities of Western PA and Indiana that there is hope. Check out the dailykos link. Its pretty damn simple and if someone does not see it, its because they don't want to see it. Its Foxnews type propaganda that only works with people that watch Foxnews. I don't think he has to worry about this. It shouldn't be hard to see through their BS. Obama's comments barely compare to what the Republicans have been up to. Wait till the presidential debates. Wait till they bring up Iraq, Iran, the economy, the illegal wiretapping, the scooter libby trial, McCains 100 year war comment, his support of waterboarding and his "safe trip to Iraq." Oh man, they are going to have plenty of things to say to keep McCain busy with damage control. If they (the democrats) cannot win this year, we the people (voters) deserve this economy and the miserable future we will be in for. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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4949
Posts: 29378 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/25/2006 Member: #1126 USA |
4/14/2008 11:25 PM
Posted by playa2: He's very, very popular in the gay communities. I'll never trust this' team again.
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OT: I think Obama is done