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If isiah honestly wants to help now
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BRIGGS
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4/4/2008  9:16 AM
He should not be playing Jamal Crawford 40 minutes. The Knicks should do what Miami has done--shut down Randolph[knee] and Crawford[shoulder] and let's get a serious 35+ minute look at Collins Morris Chandler and Balkman. Also give Jefferies 35 minutes---lets see if he can continue to improve. Use Nate as the pure PG--a team very much like the summer league team. Lets see what they can do.
RIP Crushalot😞
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arkrud
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4/4/2008  10:20 AM
Are you kidding?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Cosmic
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4/4/2008  10:33 AM
If Isiah honestly wants to help the franchise he would RETIRE or agree to a 50% buyout (Jimmy D would do it).


Oh and Briggs, we're far beyond getting a look see at the kids. The atmosphere is beyond poisioned. The 1-1 Im getting mine attitude is in full effect for all 15 players and the "I dont give a crap" coaching situation is blatantly obvious. Who cares who plays these final what 7 games?

We should have been in "Lets take a look at the kids and our future" mode in late January/early February.

Isiah tried to win games right up until the last game against New Orleans where suddenly the kids got some minutes. That was the day Isiah gave up - but - it didn't matter given there has been no coaching of the kids who got minutes anyway. Nothing was learned nothing was gained and there's no way the final 7 games will change that.

What an utterly pointless season this has been.

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BRIGGS
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4/4/2008  10:35 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

If Isiah honestly wants to help the franchise he would RETIRE or agree to a 50% buyout (Jimmy D would do it).


Oh and Briggs, we're far beyond getting a look see at the kids. The atmosphere is beyond poisioned. The 1-1 Im getting mine attitude is in full effect for all 15 players and the "I dont give a crap" coaching situation is blatantly obvious. Who cares who plays these final what 7 games?

We should have been in "Lets take a look at the kids and our future" mode in late January/early February.

Isiah tried to win games right up until the last game against New Orleans where suddenly the kids got some minutes. That was the day Isiah gave up - but - it didn't matter given there has been no coaching of the kids who got minutes anyway. Nothing was learned nothing was gained and there's no way the final 7 games will change that.

What an utterly pointless season this has been.

Jamal and Randolph are explosive enough to go off against some of these teams who lay down[like playoff temas using B teams et al] I dont think we can win 1 ganme with mardy Collins playing 40 minutes.
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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4/5/2008  12:00 AM
if the plan is to see what our young guys can do the rest of the way, then Jefferies seeing 35 mpg only guarantees you 35 minutes of crappy play at the SF position... i'd rather see Chandler & Balk getting all the minutes at the 3 the rest of the way.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
4949
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4/5/2008  12:09 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

If Isiah honestly wants to help the franchise he would RETIRE or agree to a 50% buyout (Jimmy D would do it).


Oh and Briggs, we're far beyond getting a look see at the kids. The atmosphere is beyond poisioned. The 1-1 Im getting mine attitude is in full effect for all 15 players and the "I dont give a crap" coaching situation is blatantly obvious. Who cares who plays these final what 7 games?

We should have been in "Lets take a look at the kids and our future" mode in late January/early February.

Isiah tried to win games right up until the last game against New Orleans where suddenly the kids got some minutes. That was the day Isiah gave up - but - it didn't matter given there has been no coaching of the kids who got minutes anyway. Nothing was learned nothing was gained and there's no way the final 7 games will change that.

What an utterly pointless season this has been.

I happen to agree with BRIGGS. I think it has and is still a good idea to just legitimately tank the season with the youngs guys to see how they respond to full minutes. It's the best of all worlds. And when you look at the time given to them, this experiement of giving the young guys more minutes actually has started what' about a couple of weeks ago, yes?

Cosmic the atmosphere isn't that' poisoned. There is zero hope for anything winnable at the end of the season. But much more hope now for a possible top draft and a new GM to speak of. There's a lot of damage, but hope has not left me yet and at this point, it's actually making a turn around. I am very hopeful for a brighter future now that isiah is no longer in charge. And from what I'm hearing from Walsh, it's looking even more hopeful then up until just a few days ago. What a difference a simple change can make, huh? lol
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/5/2008  12:10 AM
Posted by TMS:

if the plan is to see what our young guys can do the rest of the way, then Jefferies seeing 35 mpg only guarantees you 35 minutes of crappy play at the SF position... i'd rather see Chandler & Balk getting all the minutes at the 3 the rest of the way.

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Jeffries would be a crap waste of time.
I'll never trust this' team again.
CrushAlot
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4/5/2008  1:05 AM
He can advise Walsh that he might need to take his second round pick with the lottery pick because Phoenix is eying that player.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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4/5/2008  1:21 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by TMS:

if the plan is to see what our young guys can do the rest of the way, then Jefferies seeing 35 mpg only guarantees you 35 minutes of crappy play at the SF position... i'd rather see Chandler & Balk getting all the minutes at the 3 the rest of the way.

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Jeffries would be a crap waste of time.

on the other hand, if tanking games is the ultimate plan, then playing Jefferies max minutes might be the best option.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
4949
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4/5/2008  1:24 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by TMS:

if the plan is to see what our young guys can do the rest of the way, then Jefferies seeing 35 mpg only guarantees you 35 minutes of crappy play at the SF position... i'd rather see Chandler & Balk getting all the minutes at the 3 the rest of the way.

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Jeffries would be a crap waste of time.

on the other hand, if tanking games is the ultimate plan, then playing Jefferies max minutes might be the best option.

Yeah! If the Knicks REALLY' want to loose games, then play Jeffries. Funny.
I'll never trust this' team again.
earthmansurfer
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4/5/2008  10:04 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

He should not be playing Jamal Crawford 40 minutes. The Knicks should do what Miami has done--shut down Randolph[knee] and Crawford[shoulder] and let's get a serious 35+ minute look at Collins Morris Chandler and Balkman. Also give Jefferies 35 minutes---lets see if he can continue to improve. Use Nate as the pure PG--a team very much like the summer league team. Lets see what they can do.

Yeah, this is a stupid decision at many levels. I've been wondering about why it's happening, you know, just possibilities and probabilities.

Some ideas:
1 - showcasing or at least exposing some players for an off season trade. Look at how they're playing and maybe they could fill a void for a playoff team next year.
2 - We have a new GM and I wonder if the timing of Isiah going from playing the young guys to not playing them is coming from the GM or isiah???
Remember we are dealing with someone in Isiah who was just replaced. That might be insulting (to him) and/or hurtful. He has been questioned and criticized (rightfully so) in all aspects of his job. So, my question is, CAN HE BE TRUSTED RIGHT NOW? The next few games will probably answer some of these questions.
3 - Walsh is trying to get a better look at some players to help in the offseason trades. He's thinking he's got a few games to see what he has.

Regarding any possibility, remember that Walsh liked Isiah enough to hire him as a head coach and they did start to really turn that Indiana team around. I think the players don't like Isiah (now, as opposed to in the beginning) and are going to be honest with Walsh and he is going to let Isiah go as head coach and maybe have him do something with scouting (but he will be honest and tell him this) and Isiah will accept (but I doubt beyond this year).



The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
BRIGGS
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4/5/2008  10:14 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

He should not be playing Jamal Crawford 40 minutes. The Knicks should do what Miami has done--shut down Randolph[knee] and Crawford[shoulder] and let's get a serious 35+ minute look at Collins Morris Chandler and Balkman. Also give Jefferies 35 minutes---lets see if he can continue to improve. Use Nate as the pure PG--a team very much like the summer league team. Lets see what they can do.

Yeah, this is a stupid decision at many levels. I've been wondering about why it's happening, you know, just possibilities and probabilities.

Some ideas:
1 - showcasing or at least exposing some players for an off season trade. Look at how they're playing and maybe they could fill a void for a playoff team next year.
2 - We have a new GM and I wonder if the timing of Isiah going from playing the young guys to not playing them is coming from the GM or isiah???
Remember we are dealing with someone in Isiah who was just replaced. That might be insulting (to him) and/or hurtful. He has been questioned and criticized (rightfully so) in all aspects of his job. So, my question is, CAN HE BE TRUSTED RIGHT NOW? The next few games will probably answer some of these questions.
3 - Walsh is trying to get a better look at some players to help in the offseason trades. He's thinking he's got a few games to see what he has.

Regarding any possibility, remember that Walsh liked Isiah enough to hire him as a head coach and they did start to really turn that Indiana team around. I think the players don't like Isiah (now, as opposed to in the beginning) and are going to be honest with Walsh and he is going to let Isiah go as head coach and maybe have him do something with scouting (but he will be honest and tell him this) and Isiah will accept (but I doubt beyond this year).




How much video tape is availble on these players- everyone in the league knows what Crawford and Randolph can do. 5 games isn't going to be 1 + or 1 for any of these guys. If Randolph Morris happened to have 2 16 and 9 games or Balkman Chandler or Collinms had a nice set of showings down the stretch then maybe ity could enhance their values but the ese other guys are known quantities. Making Jamal play 48 minutes--what if they guy blows his knee at this point==what are we trying to prove? Jamal should be 30 maximum or maybe none at all if he has to play with a hurt shoulder--how about lets get the guy rehabbing that thing. Randolph did have microfracture surgery just awhile back--no need to push him right now.
RIP Crushalot😞
Cosmic
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4/5/2008  11:01 AM
Posted by 4949:



I happen to agree with BRIGGS. I think it has and is still a good idea to just legitimately tank the season with the youngs guys to see how they respond to full minutes. It's the best of all worlds. And when you look at the time given to them, this experiement of giving the young guys more minutes actually has started what' about a couple of weeks ago, yes?

Cosmic the atmosphere isn't that' poisoned. There is zero hope for anything winnable at the end of the season. But much more hope now for a possible top draft and a new GM to speak of. There's a lot of damage, but hope has not left me yet and at this point, it's actually making a turn around. I am very hopeful for a brighter future now that isiah is no longer in charge. And from what I'm hearing from Walsh, it's looking even more hopeful then up until just a few days ago. What a difference a simple change can make, huh? lol

Isiah didn't start to pack it in until that first Hornets game. Right until then he was still making "a playoff push". To credit him with a devious scheme of tanking is ludicrous given how long it took him to pack it in.

Then once he started playing the kids he never really committed to playing them. We still see Crawful, Malik, Zach, Jeffries, QRich for BIG MINUTES each and every - or every other game. That's not playing the kids. That's just retarded. You can bet if Curry or Marbury were healthy they'd be playing as well.

Isiah has no plan. He never did other than to "acquire talent" and he even just recently this past week said again "We're in the talent acquisition business."

That's not a plan that's just lunacy.

As to the atmosphere it is indeed poisoned. Our entire offense under Isiah has been comprised of:

Dribble Dribble Dribble CHUCK


Walk the ball up, give it to Crawful or Zach, let them chuck. Then we started watching Jeffries, Balkman, Lee all do the same. Get the ball, go 1-1, chuck it.


Practices? How many has he cancelled? When he runs them what are they comprised of? Chucking the ball at the rim? Happy-Go-Lucky Shoot-arounds? Lovely...

Conditioning? Where's the conditioning? The only guys in any semblence of shape are Crawful, Chandler, Nate, and Jeffries (who is more just thin than anything).

What about everyone else? Lee and Balkman are softer than we've ever seen them. Curry fatter than hell. Marbury big and winded as was QRich. Jerome, Malik both tired and big. Zach big and winded for most of the year. So there's yet another thing that Isiah is accountable for. This is a pro sports team for crying out loud and we're the FATTEST team in the league (truth actually lol).

Two-Way Game? Where's any semblence of defense aside from the occasional Chandler or Balkman block or Nate or Crawful steal? Where is it? Nonexistant. So Isiah doesn't teach offense other than to Dribble Dribble Dribble AND1 Crossover Dribble Dribble CHUCK. He doesn't teach defense other than "dont get into foul trouble otherwise I cant keep you on the court."

What the hell was that all about? Was that some sort of master plan? Ugh...



The kids? What are they to learn from such a disgraceful atmosphere?

Do you really think this is considered a positive learning experience when Mardy goes out there and Dribble Dribble Dribble CHUCKS because if he doesnt, and happens to pass the ball, he'll just watch another Knick do that anyway?

This season has been an epic disaster. A complete failure on all accounts. The kids learned nothing except how to be selfish out of shape and-1 no-defense chuckers.



So, to me, that's a very poisonous atmosphere of which to grow in. TO me Isiah never had a plan at all be it to win, be it to lose for the lotto, be it to prepare for the future, be it to help the kids grow or teach the vets about teamwork. NOTHING!!!



Therefore the hubub about "playing the kids" is really much ado about nothing given the atmosphere of which they have "played in". Which is one of the worst I've ever seen and I sure can't be alone with that can I?

These final six games will give us absolutely nothing of value.

There's no teaching going on. There's no coaching going on. There's no growth going on. There's only the learning of bad habits going on and that's sad. And I don't want to hear "well with 6 games left and nothing to play for why bother?" Because, with 82 games left back in October, there was seemingly the same exact feeling franchise wide.


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JrZyHuStLa
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4/5/2008  11:05 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

He should not be playing Jamal Crawford 40 minutes. The Knicks should do what Miami has done--shut down Randolph[knee] and Crawford[shoulder] and let's get a serious 35+ minute look at Collins Morris Chandler and Balkman. Also give Jefferies 35 minutes---lets see if he can continue to improve. Use Nate as the pure PG--a team very much like the summer league team. Lets see what they can do.

Who cares ? Its not like Crawford is stopping us from losing games.
Bobby
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4/5/2008  7:26 PM
i agree, more minutes should be given to the other players. but if we started to do what miami has done half the posters on this forum would create "tank" threads crediting zeke with his best coaching move to date
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
GKFv2
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4/5/2008  7:27 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by BRIGGS:

He should not be playing Jamal Crawford 40 minutes. The Knicks should do what Miami has done--shut down Randolph[knee] and Crawford[shoulder] and let's get a serious 35+ minute look at Collins Morris Chandler and Balkman. Also give Jefferies 35 minutes---lets see if he can continue to improve. Use Nate as the pure PG--a team very much like the summer league team. Lets see what they can do.

Who cares ? Its not like Crawford is stopping us from losing games.

He has won half the games for us this year. When he gets hot, he can win the game single-handedly.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
If isiah honestly wants to help now

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