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Complaint filed regarding tanking with NBA
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Panos
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4/2/2008  10:24 PM
I just sent the following message to the NBA through NBA.com:

Watching what is happening in the league this year has a lot of fans thinking about the integrity of some of the teams efforts in winning games vs. their desire to position themselves for better odds in the lottery.

This problem appears especially acute in the case of the Miami Heat. This is a team with one of the ten best players in the game in Dwyane Wade, and another player extremely talented AllStar player in Shawn Marion. However, the management of the Heat are fielding a single legimate NBA starter, neither of the two afforementioned, in a clear effort to guarantee the best odds in winning the lottery.

I'm sure the league has considered many ways to discourage teams from tanking at the end of the season, but here are two more ideas to consider:
1. The lottery is based on the teams average performance over the last three years. This prevents good teams purposely or through injury taking a pick from a legitamate bad team that has suffered for a long time.
2. Count only losses in which 150 mins go to players who averaged at least 30 minutes per game the prior year.
AUTOADVERT
TrueBlue
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4/2/2008  10:36 PM
Posted by Panos:

I just sent the following message to the NBA through NBA.com:

Watching what is happening in the league this year has a lot of fans thinking about the integrity of some of the teams efforts in winning games vs. their desire to position themselves for better odds in the lottery.

This problem appears especially acute in the case of the Miami Heat. This is a team with one of the ten best players in the game in Dwyane Wade, and another player extremely talented AllStar player in Shawn Marion. However, the management of the Heat are fielding a single legimate NBA starter, neither of the two afforementioned, in a clear effort to guarantee the best odds in winning the lottery.

I'm sure the league has considered many ways to discourage teams from tanking at the end of the season, but here are two more ideas to consider:
1. The lottery is based on the teams average performance over the last three years. This prevents good teams purposely or through injury taking a pick from a legitamate bad team that has suffered for a long time.
2. Count only losses in which 150 mins go to players who averaged at least 30 minutes per game the prior year.


LOL @ you sending this and then isolating the Miami Heat as THE culprit. It would probably have more meaning if you would have left it as a general problem.

I highly doubt you would have sent this say if we were doing this to the extent the Heat are doing it. Stop crying like a little girl.

It's a league wide problem which has been in existence for some time now. No need to make it almost exclusive to one team.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-02-2008 9:37 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Panos
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4/2/2008  10:42 PM
Dude all the other teams in the cellar belong in the cellar.
Panos
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4/2/2008  10:49 PM
Miami's minutes tonight, and typical for last 10+ games:


D.Cook 44:12
R.Davis 40:29
J.Anthony 33:48
C.Quinn 35:49
B.Ahearn 24:49
A.Johnson 20:06
S.Lasme 18:10
E.Barron 13:01
M.Blount 09:36

DNP:
J.Williams
S.Marion
A.Mourning
D.Wade
M.Banks
U.Haslem
D.Wright

Come on! Look at those DNPs!
GKFv2
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Member: #1259
USA
4/2/2008  10:51 PM
Dude, Mouring has been out most of the year, Wade is injured, Haslem is injured, Banks is always injured, and I don't know about the rest.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Solace
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4/2/2008  11:07 PM
I think you can make a valid claim that the Knicks are tanking. The tanking started in the offseason upon the Zach Randolph acquisition.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
4949
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4/2/2008  11:29 PM
Posted by Panos:

I just sent the following message to the NBA through NBA.com:

Watching what is happening in the league this year has a lot of fans thinking about the integrity of some of the teams efforts in winning games vs. their desire to position themselves for better odds in the lottery.

This problem appears especially acute in the case of the Miami Heat. This is a team with one of the ten best players in the game in Dwyane Wade, and another player extremely talented AllStar player in Shawn Marion. However, the management of the Heat are fielding a single legimate NBA starter, neither of the two afforementioned, in a clear effort to guarantee the best odds in winning the lottery.

I'm sure the league has considered many ways to discourage teams from tanking at the end of the season, but here are two more ideas to consider:
1. The lottery is based on the teams average performance over the last three years. This prevents good teams purposely or through injury taking a pick from a legitamate bad team that has suffered for a long time.
2. Count only losses in which 150 mins go to players who averaged at least 30 minutes per game the prior year.

Dude, why are you so fixated on this subject? If the Knicks weren't anywhere near the bottom you wouldn't be complaining. Why would you want to cause the Knicks to lose position at the last moment? They end up winning 4 of 7 of their last games and probably end up in sixth spot, thus destroying our hope at a top catch. Stop doing that!

Wait for the season to be over and then' complain!
I'll never trust this' team again.
markvmc
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4/2/2008  11:38 PM
Aren't Miami at least holding practice sessions?
crzymdups
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4/2/2008  11:39 PM
Miami is tanking, but it doesn't always work. Boston tanked to try to get Duncan and they got Chauncey Billips instead (who they gave up on too soon).

Miami WAS, however, trying to win earlier in the season and when they realized they were horrible again with Shaq a step slower and Wade not fully recovered from his surgery, they dumped Shaq and shut down Wade.

When it's CLEAR that teams won't make the playoffs, I think planning for the next season, whether that's evaluating rookies and younger guys or positioning for a draft pick is not the end of the world. It gets embarassing when two teams that are clearly out of it basically both try to lose the game, but I mean, is it more a disservice to the fans to hurt draft status or to not pull out all the stops to win meaningless games?

Now, the Knicks could play Crawford and Randolph 45 minutes a night and wear them down and ride their scoring talents and we MIGHT win another 5-8 games than we have this season. so, say we're 27-48 instead of 20-55. what's the difference? except we'd have the 8th pick instead of the 4th pick right now. we're not a good team either way you slice it. riding Craw and ZBO for 45 minutes every night would not change that. the only thing it does in the big picture is wear down guys who we are committed to paying big bucks for the next 3 seasons. what's the sense in wearing down their bodies at the end of the season when we are paying them for three more years?

should Miami play Wade every night, instead of rest him for next season, so they finish 23-59 instead of 13-69? this is a business. it makes no sense to wear down your proven assets when you need to add more assets. it makes more sense to evaluate possible new assets and put yourself in better position for the draft. is it as entertaining as teams going all out in game 76 out of 82? no. but these teams aren't very good to start with. the good teams will go all out in the playoffs and go all out most nights of the year.

is it good for team morale? no. but, hey, our team morale sucks anyway. hopefully the guys who are gonna stay realize its part of the process of improving the team.
¿ △ ?
4949
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4/2/2008  11:45 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

hopefully the guys who are gonna stay realize its part of the process of improving the team.

Don't worry. They will.
I'll never trust this' team again.
BRIGGS
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4/3/2008  12:44 AM
How about cut the size of the lottery down to 10 teams on a weighted basis. Each of these teams are awarded bonuses from the pool of ping pong balls for winning over the last 20 games.

i.e 5 ping pong balls for a win in the last 20

Team 1 has 100 chanes to win
Team 10 has 10 chances to win.

If team 10 wins 8 games--they are awarded 40 more balls for a total of 50
You may need to refine it with a mathemetician but it will still weight the team with the most losses yet also reward those teams who are able to winm in the last 20.

No team can win 12-15 in a row mathematically and still sit in the 10 lottery spots.

RIP Crushalot😞
4949
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4/3/2008  3:08 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

How about cut the size of the lottery down to 10 teams on a weighted basis. Each of these teams are awarded bonuses from the pool of ping pong balls for winning over the last 20 games.

i.e 5 ping pong balls for a win in the last 20

Team 1 has 100 chanes to win
Team 10 has 10 chances to win.

If team 10 wins 8 games--they are awarded 40 more balls for a total of 50
You may need to refine it with a mathemetician but it will still weight the team with the most losses yet also reward those teams who are able to winm in the last 20.

No team can win 12-15 in a row mathematically and still sit in the 10 lottery spots.

Why don't we just have the official 'tank playoffs'? Make the bottom worst teams play their hearts out for top picks. Man, I betcha New York, Miami, Memphis, MInnesota, Seattle, Milwaukee, etc. would play like the pros do at the top. As a matter of fact, MIami would probably win top pick for outstanding play and winningest record in the tank playoffs.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TheGame
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4/3/2008  8:40 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by BRIGGS:

How about cut the size of the lottery down to 10 teams on a weighted basis. Each of these teams are awarded bonuses from the pool of ping pong balls for winning over the last 20 games.

i.e 5 ping pong balls for a win in the last 20

Team 1 has 100 chanes to win
Team 10 has 10 chances to win.

If team 10 wins 8 games--they are awarded 40 more balls for a total of 50
You may need to refine it with a mathemetician but it will still weight the team with the most losses yet also reward those teams who are able to winm in the last 20.

No team can win 12-15 in a row mathematically and still sit in the 10 lottery spots.

Why don't we just have the official 'tank playoffs'? Make the bottom worst teams play their hearts out for top picks. Man, I betcha New York, Miami, Memphis, MInnesota, Seattle, Milwaukee, etc. would play like the pros do at the top. As a matter of fact, MIami would probably win top pick for outstanding play and winningest record in the tank playoffs.

A playoffs for the lottery! "It's so crazy, it just might work."

It would at least make the lottery selection process more interesting.
Trust the Process
TheGame
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4/3/2008  8:43 AM
Posted by Panos:

I just sent the following message to the NBA through NBA.com:

Watching what is happening in the league this year has a lot of fans thinking about the integrity of some of the teams efforts in winning games vs. their desire to position themselves for better odds in the lottery.

This problem appears especially acute in the case of the Miami Heat. This is a team with one of the ten best players in the game in Dwyane Wade, and another player extremely talented AllStar player in Shawn Marion. However, the management of the Heat are fielding a single legimate NBA starter, neither of the two afforementioned, in a clear effort to guarantee the best odds in winning the lottery.

I'm sure the league has considered many ways to discourage teams from tanking at the end of the season, but here are two more ideas to consider:
1. The lottery is based on the teams average performance over the last three years. This prevents good teams purposely or through injury taking a pick from a legitamate bad team that has suffered for a long time.
2. Count only losses in which 150 mins go to players who averaged at least 30 minutes per game the prior year.

Miami is doing the smart thing. They are giving their young players minutes and securing at worst the 4th pick with the highest chance for the #1 pick. I don't think they should be penalized. The only way you should be penalized for tanking is if your players purposely try to lose games by making intentional errors at the end of the game. Now that should not be allowed. But how can you really stop a team from making the decision to develop their young players when they know they are not making the playoffs.
Trust the Process
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