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OT: Here's Kiki's GM History
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TrueBlue
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2/27/2008  4:41 PM
http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/kiki_vandeweghe.htm


What don't we or do we like about some of his moves?


I see several gems myself

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-27-2008 3:43 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
AUTOADVERT
NyKnicks89
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2/27/2008  4:50 PM
he made some good move he rebuild the nuggets and there heading in the right direction ....i know he might of over paid k mart but if k mart was still the sma e player form jersey him and camby would make pretty good front court...another bad move was selecting Nikoloz Tskitishvili with the 5 overall pick

[Edited by - NyKnicks89 on 02-27-2008 4:51 PM]
TrueBlue
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2/27/2008  4:56 PM
Posted by NyKnicks89:

he made some good move he rebuild the nuggets and there heading in the right direction ....i know he might of over paid k mart but if k mart was still the sma e player form jersey him and camby would make pretty good front court...another bad move was selecting Nikoloz Tskitishvili with the 5 overall pick

[Edited by - NyKnicks89 on 02-27-2008 4:51 PM]


Did you later see who he turned Skita into? Look at February 24 2005
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
NyKnicks89
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2/27/2008  5:01 PM

Traded forwards Rodney White and Nikoloz Tskitishvili to the Golden State Warriors for guard Luis Flores, forward Eduardo Najera and a 2007 first-round pick.

after he turned out to be a bust he turned it into other 1 rounder and najera

your right true blue if colangelo turns down the job he would be a good 2 or 3 option.. but before we jump the gun about isiah being fired did u see the article about dolan saying the knicks were the next celtics?
TrueBlue
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2/27/2008  5:07 PM
Posted by NyKnicks89:


Traded forwards Rodney White and Nikoloz Tskitishvili to the Golden State Warriors for guard Luis Flores, forward Eduardo Najera and a 2007 first-round pick.

after he turned out to be a bust he turned it into other 1 rounder and najera

your right true blue if colangelo turns down the job he would be a good 2 or 3 option.. but before we jump the gun about isiah being fired did u see the article about dolan saying the knicks were the next celtics?


Not to get all degrees of separation on us but Mark Warkentien sent the 2007 first round draft pick from Golden State(Skita 2005 Feb 24rth trade) to Philly in the Miller/Iverson trade.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-27-2008 4:07 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Cosmic
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2/27/2008  5:13 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/kiki_vandeweghe.htm


What don't we or do we like about some of his moves?


I see several gems myself

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-27-2008 3:43 PM]

A much easier way to review his work is to use this other site....more accurate, easier on the eyes.


click me

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
BRIGGS
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2/27/2008  5:15 PM
I would prefer combination of John Calipari----GM President
Tom Thiebadeu--coach

RIP Crushalot😞
TrueBlue
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2/27/2008  5:24 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by TrueBlue:

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/kiki_vandeweghe.htm


What don't we or do we like about some of his moves?


I see several gems myself

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-27-2008 3:43 PM]

A much easier way to review his work is to use this other site....more accurate, easier on the eyes.


click me


I'll slap you Cosmic, my pimp hand is strong.


I like it but then again I don't because it isn't all on one page but it's seems to be neater/tidier.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
colorfl1
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2/27/2008  7:56 PM
seems like the only great move he made was fleecing the Knicks in a trade with Laydon,
Explain to me why we want to entrust this guy with the KnicKs for the next 5 years???

I would take Colangelo over Kiki... its a no brainer.
matt
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2/27/2008  8:04 PM
Posted by colorfl1:

seems like the only great move he made was fleecing the Knicks in a trade with Laydon,
Explain to me why we want to entrust this guy with the KnicKs for the next 5 years???

I would take Colangelo over Kiki... its a no brainer.

Definitely. While it's a huge plus that Kiki is not Isiah Thomas, I think it's time the Knicks pick someone who is really good, not just an improvement
joec32033
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2/27/2008  9:03 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I would prefer combination of John Calipari----GM President
Tom Thiebadeu--coach

That's out of left field.
~You can't run from who you are.~
s3231
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2/27/2008  11:49 PM
Not all of his moves are perfect. However, what you do see with all of Kiki's moves is a clear direction and vision for that team.

That is saying a lot when you consider who we have right now running things.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
fishmike
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2/28/2008  7:58 AM
Posted by s3231:

Not all of his moves are perfect. However, what you do see with all of Kiki's moves is a clear direction and vision for that team.

That is saying a lot when you consider who we have right now running things.
boy you nailed it... Kiki wasnt perfect but his moves all followed a plan and a direction, and many were good. Bottom line is he did a good job rebuilding a cap strung team built around McDyess, Van Ex and LaFrenz and he did it very quickly.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
playa2
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2/28/2008  8:10 AM
Who ever has the most potent "juicecard" with David "the don" Stern will be the next gm of the NY Knicks.

Just like on draft night in 1985
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Bonn1997
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2/28/2008  8:42 AM
Posted by s3231:

Not all of his moves are perfect. However, what you do see with all of Kiki's moves is a clear direction and vision for that team.

That is saying a lot when you consider who we have right now running things.

I hear what you're saying but I think we've lowered the bar very low if we're giving credit just for having a vision for the team. That's what happens when you've had as bad a decade as we've had. In any other circumstance, you'd want to look at the person's vision and how well they carried out the goal of attaining that vision.
Nalod
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2/28/2008  8:56 AM
Most GM's resume is filled with blunders. With Hindsight 20-20 its easy to second guess most GM's moves.

Sometimes it luck, and sometimes a player actually steps up and improves making a previous decision unseen at the time.

Owners have a huge say in the direction of a team making personel decisions even more difficult.

Most important thing is Kiki helped set that team in the right direction and they had enough assets to get Iverson, have picks, and flexibilty (choices). Nene on paper was solid pick at where he was taken and maybe Skita was just a head of its time and his attitude was wrong. It happens.

Here is a good question, who gets credit for dumping Marbury on the knicks?

How about who is the one that traded Kidd for Marbury and then gave max money to Marbury? Granted at the time Kidd was beating on Mrs Kidd and drinking, but Marbury was no angel and got his DUI also in PHX.

Seeing that the "Greater fool Theory" still applies the Knicks took on Marbury two weeks after Layden was fired. My guess is Dolan wanted it and was frustrated over the team. Could our beloved Layden be the one who did not want him and perhaps had his own plan and Dolan being Dolan became disgusted and fired him ordering Thomas to get him and be his mentor??

Its all part of second guessing.

ONe thing is Thomas's moves have long been second guessed by many as the knicks made many of these trades as much as after.

Again, Kiki set that franchise right and made some ambitious moves. I'd be curious how much input the owner had on bringing in K-mart. A front line of Carmelo, Camby and K-mart all while grooming Nene was a hell of a plan!

Its not like the "failure" of Skita or Nene's development made the cellar dewellers, nor having to make a coaching change either.

They are still a very good team at or near the salary cap even today.

The last thing is don't discount EXPERIENCE! It was Kiki's first solo gig and that goes along way in making him better going forward. Joe Torre needed a lot of time to develope as a manager after two lackluster stints. Stienbrenner was railed for hiring him!

Maybe Kiki become the next great executive? Who knows, but he is solid.
s3231
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2/28/2008  12:19 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by s3231:

Not all of his moves are perfect. However, what you do see with all of Kiki's moves is a clear direction and vision for that team.

That is saying a lot when you consider who we have right now running things.

I hear what you're saying but I think we've lowered the bar very low if we're giving credit just for having a vision for the team. That's what happens when you've had as bad a decade as we've had. In any other circumstance, you'd want to look at the person's vision and how well they carried out the goal of attaining that vision.


I agree that having a vision is not enough. What I was trying to say was that despite Kiki's moves not all being perfect, he still made enough good moves to achieve success with that vision. The point was that even when he did make a bad move, it still followed the direction he was trying to take with that team.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Nalod
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2/28/2008  12:29 PM
Leaving Isiah as coach is to further humiliate him into accepting a buyout.

If Isiah stays he is a spineless pathetic piece of dung wanting his money.

Dolan is the same by keeping him and letting Kiki run things in his face.

Its an uncomfortable situation for Kiki to accept based on this. He should demand that he pick his coach and not keep Isiah to fulfil dolans blood thurst for spite.

Lets see how this plays out. My money is on even Dolan messing up what could be a good thing.
TrueBlue
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2/28/2008  12:32 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by s3231:

Not all of his moves are perfect. However, what you do see with all of Kiki's moves is a clear direction and vision for that team.

That is saying a lot when you consider who we have right now running things.

I hear what you're saying but I think we've lowered the bar very low if we're giving credit just for having a vision for the team. That's what happens when you've had as bad a decade as we've had. In any other circumstance, you'd want to look at the person's vision and how well they carried out the goal of attaining that vision.


Do you understand how much of a God I SAY UGH would be if he took this team to the playoffs 3yrs straight from what Layden left? Obviously the ultimate goal is to win a championship but Colangelo nor Walsh won championships with their teams, went to the Finals one a piece. Let's say we hired Kiki and the Knicks made the playoffs 3yrs straight after next season and decides to part with the team. His replacement picks up where he left off maintaining the success.....Would Kiki be considered a Bad or Good hire?


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-28-2008 1:56 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Nalod
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2/28/2008  2:54 PM
At what price to make the playoffs? Did we starphuch our way in or build from within?

Isiah took a franchise on the down turn and kept it going in that direction where he could have at least righted the ship in the proper direction.

Why did Kiki leave Denver? I thought the owner did not want to pay him and let his contrct run out.
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OT: Here's Kiki's GM History
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