if we could swing Zach to the Nuggets for KMart & a protected pick, & then ship Curry, Malik & Chandler off to the Bucks for say, Simmons, Gadz & their lottery pick, & sign Artest w/the MLE next season, we'd be in business... that would give us 3 1st rounders in this year's draft w/which we could fill all the major holes on this team in 1 fell swoop... instant rebuild right there & the team would be much better off over the short & the longterm.

our pick = Rose or Gordon
pick from MIL = Thabeet
late 1st rounder from DEN = how about this guy:

Serge Ibaka



looks like he's got sick athleticism & shotblocking ability, works really hard under the boards, runs the floor very well, has very nice handle for a big guy, nice form on his FT's & a decent looking jump hook in the paint... could be a nice young kid to have backing up Thabeet after a couple seasons of working on his offensive game.

C - Thabeet / Gadz / Ibaka
PF - KMart / D Lee / Jefferies
SF - Artest / Balk / Simmons
SG - Jamal / Q Rich / LLE or summer league free agent
PG - Rose or Gordon / Nate / Mardy

Turd = buyout to open up roster spot

I like that Ibaka kid too

I wouldn't do either of these deals if I ran the other team. I wouldn't want Zach and Curry even taking up roster spots let alone giving up draft picks to get the players.

Posted by Bonn1997:

I wouldn't do either of these deals if I ran the other team. I wouldn't want Zach and Curry even taking up roster spots let alone giving up draft picks to get the players.

I'd tend to agree- we're going to have a hard time getting teams to take our garbage- not saying it can't be done and not saying that curry or zach wouldn't be effective in a different environment on a different team.

We could probably get a pick back for a player like crawford- we might even be able to get 2 picks for a player like nate (think San Antonio, late first rounders) and obviously David Lee could bring picks- in fact, what about Lee to the Heat for their pick this year?

Posted by TMS:

if we could swing Zach to the Nuggets for KMart & a protected pick, & then ship Curry, Malik & Chandler off to the Bucks for say, Simmons, Gadz & their lottery pick, & sign Artest w/the MLE next season, we'd be in business... that would give us 3 1st rounders in this year's draft w/which we could fill all the major holes on this team in 1 fell swoop... instant rebuild right there & the team would be much better off over the short & the longterm.

our pick = Rose or Gordon
pick from MIL = Thabeet
late 1st rounder from DEN = how about this guy:

Serge Ibaka



looks like he's got sick athleticism & shotblocking ability, works really hard under the boards, runs the floor very well, has very nice handle for a big guy, nice form on his FT's & a decent looking jump hook in the paint... could be a nice young kid to have backing up Thabeet after a couple seasons of working on his offensive game.

C - Thabeet / Gadz / Ibaka
PF - KMart / D Lee / Jefferies
SF - Artest / Balk / Simmons
SG - Jamal / Q Rich / LLE or summer league free agent
PG - Rose or Gordon / Nate / Mardy

Turd = buyout to open up roster spot

Okay first problem with these proposed moves. I doubt Artest is signing for a MLE. Especially if other teams will most likely offer him a deal in the range of 10 million or so. For a player of his ability I just don't see him taking a pay cut to play in NY (though you never know with this screw ball). Other issue I have with this why would you use Zach to net another player that the Knicks don't need? If your going to move him instead of making another Isiahesque trade it would be better to move him for a player that we actually need Move him for a guard which is what we desperately need. The Mil deals falls under the problem just re shuffling of garbage players thats all this deal is.

Q Rich and garbage Jefferies are still on the roster taking up 13 million a year?

KMart that makes no sense to me b/c again you have another guy making crazy money and who will probably spend most of his time on IR or just suck b/c he only does well in an uptempo system.



[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-19-2008 11:41 AM]

Posted by Bippity10:

I loved Ibaka in THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

LOL!

Its a plan, Thabeet, Kmart, Artest would be a very good defensive frontcourt. Swapping around big contracts isn't that bad as long as you are balancing out the roster. First we gotta replace Isiah with someone who has a plan.

If we were trying to rebuild we should look at teams that are trying to be a contender. Who would be willing to add a Randolph in order to go to the next level.

Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford & Jerad Jeffries to the Cavs for Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Donnyell Marshall & a future first rd draft pick. Knicks would be shedding 58mil in future salary.

Follow that up by trading Curry & M.Rose to Miami for Jason Williams & Mark Blount & future draft pic as well. That would shedd 23-24mil in future salary. Buy out James & Marbury. Draft with high lotto picks.

07/08(Current) - Williams(8.9), Jones(3.3) = 12.2
08/09 - Gooden(7.1), Marshal(5.9), Marbury(21.9) = 34.9
09/10 - Hughes(13.6), Blount(7.9), Richardson(9.3), James(6.6) = 37.4
Total 84.5mil comming off the books from 07/08-09/10/
Notable Free Agents 2010-2011: Lebron James(PO), Dwayne Wade(PO), Joe Johnson, Stoudemire(PO), Aldridge(QO), Randy Foye(QO), Ginobili, Bosh(PO), Boozer.

That's not really a rebuild. Gaymart? Crawford? You kidding me?

Posted by bitty41:
Okay first problem with these proposed moves. I doubt Artest is signing for a MLE. Especially if other teams will most likely offer him a deal in the range of 10 million or so. For a player of his ability I just don't see him taking a pay cut to play in NY (though you never know with this screw ball). Other issue I have with this why would you use Zach to net another player that the Knicks don't need? If your going to move him instead of making another Isiahesque trade it would be better to move him for a player that we actually need Move him for a guard which is what we desperately need. The Mil deals falls under the problem just re shuffling of garbage players thats all this deal is.

Q Rich and garbage Jefferies are still on the roster taking up 13 million a year?

KMart that makes no sense to me b/c again you have another guy making crazy money and who will probably spend most of his time on IR or just suck b/c he only does well in an uptempo system.



[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-19-2008 11:41 AM]

we're never gonna agree on the reasons i have why i prefer KMart vs Zach, so i won't even bother going there

as far as Artest, he's gone on record saying he'd sign w/us after the season if he wasn't traded... i'm only going based on what he's said in the past... he's a crazy sumbitch so who knows w/him.

& about Q Rich & Jefferies, what's your point? let me know who's taking them off our hands & we can discuss it.


[Edited by - TMS on 02-19-2008 11:29 AM]

Just throwing some facts out there about KMart he's missed 156 since he's joined Denver. His deal is the same length as Randolph only he has a player option maybe Im retarded for being hestitant about pursuing this guy. Even before he was hurt KMart's bread and butter is the full-court game which the Knicks do not currently employ. So Im just wondering why you would attain ANOTERH OVER PAID POWER FORWARD instead of pursuing a position that we desperately need like small forward?

Artest has mentioned many times that he would like to play in NY but really if your Artest's agent would you advise him to take a pay cut to play for a team that probably won't more then 30 games? Sure a team on the cusp for a title I could understand. How hilarious would it be that Ron Artest would come here for the same money that the Knicks are paying Jerome James and Jared Jefferies.

QRich and Jefferies I think on their own definetly not but if they were packaged I think they could be moved.

I'm not against trading (just not under Isiah) and not for perputally injured or bad players. Larry Hughes, Jermaine O'Neal, Gadzuric, KMart, is just another Isiahesque deal that does not make us better, does not make us particularly cheaper (though some of them do have shorter deals), it does not improve our team chemistry as a matter of fact its the same exact deals you and others have been railing against.

bitty, i've explained to you time & time again why i think Zach is a horrible fit for this franchise & why i wouldn't mind taking a chance on KMart, but you still don't wanna accept my reasons so why even keep challenging me on it? we just have to agree to disagree cuz neither of us are gonna convince the other to change their minds on this one.

Its funny that you bring things back to Zach its the same thing with you always. "Zach isn't a good fit" blah blah blah. I am not disagreeing with this. Just so we're clear its not as though I haven't said it a million times but thats right Im the one that doesn't listen lol.

At this point I would love for the Knicks to trade for Kmart just so I can laugh at everyone thats pissed b/c Kmart is missing yet another 6 months for some knee surgery.

if you notice w/that new roster i'm proposing the Knicks could easily run a full court style game... i've also pretty much addressed every area of need in my plan... but don't let the details get in the way of considering the big picture.

Intersting that you proposed Ron Artest signing for MLE, the Knicks getting two lotto picks, and after all that we have no low post scorer, no outside shooter (though maybe this Rose kid could be one), David Lee is still playing back-up to some overpaid walking injury, and outside of two guys the Knicks still are lacking players with any serious playoff experience.

what me & others have been railing against are moves that don't address the TEAM BALANCE & don't fit into any sort of plan... u keep railing against us saying cap space & draft picks aren't the way to go in order to build a franchise, but that's not exclusive to building a good franchise... u also have to keep in mind how all those parts will fit together to make a whole first & foremost... i think Zach is a horrible fit here... why is that so damn hard for you to accept?

Do you really have to make shyt up? Is that what your reduced to now. I never said cap space and draft picks aren't the way to go. I will repeat in captial bolded letters ZACH RANDOLPH WAS A BAD FIT FOR THIS TEAM.

I just said that the Knicks have those things coming to them with a little patience and some smart NOT panic moves. I think thats the fundamental difference you want to make more gamble/panic moves in hopes that we will strike lightening with some of these players. So again how are these deals different then the Penny Hardaway, Steve Francis, and Zach Randolph deals?

Troubled past: Check Ron Artest

Overpaid: check Kenyon Martin

Mismatched parts: check Ron Artest half-court player, chucker in Jamal Crawford, and bad knees fast break player with two inexperienced rookies

Injury prone: check Kenyon Martin

Lack of winning experience on NBA level: Check outside of Artest and Kenyon not much in the way of proven winners (and those two are still major question marks in that category).


So yea same shyt different day huh?


But I was just offering a different perspective here.


[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-19-2008 7:02 PM]