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If Zach would shoot the ball
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King1
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2/2/2008  12:12 PM
about 13 times a game. We get a small forward who can score and guard, and play Lee 35 minutes a game this team would compete. Zach competes and when he passes the ball this team is better. Last night was back to old Zach but over the last couple of games he is playing less selfish. We have to find a perimeter offensive threat to balance the team. Take away the second chance points last night and we get beat by 15. Curry and quentin should not play anymore on this team
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bitty41
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2/2/2008  12:20 PM
Posted by King1:

about 13 times a game. We get a small forward who can score and guard, and play Lee 35 minutes a game this team would compete. Zach competes and when he passes the ball this team is better. Last night was back to old Zach but over the last couple of games he is playing less selfish. We have to find a perimeter offensive threat to balance the team. Take away the second chance points last night and we get beat by 15. Curry and quentin should not play anymore on this team

My biggest issue with Zach is him not attacking the basket and taking it inside. Thats where he needs to improve that pick and pop for a 17 ft is not particularly good basketball especially if its used for the entire game. I've been saying this a ton of times but the Knicks need to use more plays with David Lee and Randolph working off one another. Like high lows or back screens for each other because it keeps them both close to the basket which creates a better shot and also more opportunity for offensive rebounds.
SlimPack
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2/2/2008  12:22 PM
More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.
franco12
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2/2/2008  12:30 PM
we can't have both zach and curry

zach's contract is worse, so we're keeping him.

he does seem to pass better than curry & he can rebound a lot better.

You put a stephen hunter type center alongside him & Lee and I think you've got a solid front court
bitty41
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2/2/2008  12:42 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.


If you could name a guy or guys making what Randolph is that would give us a quality trade then by all means enlighten us. But otherwise your just duplicating the same mistakes Isiah made with Hardaway, Francis, and Randolph. Your bringing in a guy with another huge contract which this time next year you will be saying the exact same thing you are saying right now. "This guy doesn't fit we have to move him". But otherwise I don't see anyone coming down the pike and we're are not in Portland' situation where we have a bunch of young guys ready to step in to play.

highfivesucka
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2/2/2008  1:21 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by SlimPack:

More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.


If you could name a guy or guys making what Randolph is that would give us a quality trade then by all means enlighten us. But otherwise your just duplicating the same mistakes Isiah made with Hardaway, Francis, and Randolph. Your bringing in a guy with another huge contract which this time next year you will be saying the exact same thing you are saying right now. "This guy doesn't fit we have to move him". But otherwise I don't see anyone coming down the pike and we're are not in Portland' situation where we have a bunch of young guys ready to step in to play.

Lee and zach actually play pretty well together. although I agree that in the long run we need to ditch zach along with curry
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GKFv2
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2/2/2008  1:27 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by SlimPack:

More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.


If you could name a guy or guys making what Randolph is that would give us a quality trade then by all means enlighten us. But otherwise your just duplicating the same mistakes Isiah made with Hardaway, Francis, and Randolph. Your bringing in a guy with another huge contract which this time next year you will be saying the exact same thing you are saying right now. "This guy doesn't fit we have to move him". But otherwise I don't see anyone coming down the pike and we're are not in Portland' situation where we have a bunch of young guys ready to step in to play.

The next guy that will come here will have to make due with some of the crap here for at least 1 more year before attempting to trade them to some desperate team for expiring contracts.
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Anji
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2/2/2008  1:41 PM
When the knicks run sets for Zach, it is basically like having a guard shoot jumpshots. I don't his game, it's too far from the basket.
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Bonn1997
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2/2/2008  2:00 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by King1:

about 13 times a game. We get a small forward who can score and guard, and play Lee 35 minutes a game this team would compete. Zach competes and when he passes the ball this team is better. Last night was back to old Zach but over the last couple of games he is playing less selfish. We have to find a perimeter offensive threat to balance the team. Take away the second chance points last night and we get beat by 15. Curry and quentin should not play anymore on this team

My biggest issue with Zach is him not attacking the basket and taking it inside. Thats where he needs to improve that pick and pop for a 17 ft is not particularly good basketball especially if its used for the entire game. I've been saying this a ton of times but the Knicks need to use more plays with David Lee and Randolph working off one another. Like high lows or back screens for each other because it keeps them both close to the basket which creates a better shot and also more opportunity for offensive rebounds.
That's your biggest issue with Zach?! My biggest issue with Zach is that he's fat and out of shape and won't do the tough, unrewarding work in the off-season or even during the game to help his team win.
bitty41
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2/2/2008  2:10 PM
That's your biggest issue with Zach?! My biggest issue with Zach is that he's fat and out of shape and won't do the tough, unrewarding work in the off-season or even during the game to help his team win.

I think a lot of men wouldn't mind being "out of shape" grabbing 10 boards a game in the NBA. Some players are just chunky like Barkley was; this isn't a Vogue Photoshoot. If his weight is a problem meaning he's unable to play long stretches or he's not able to rebound b/c he's fat or whatever then okay. Otherwise Bonn do you anything basketball related you would like to add to the discussion? Also grabbing 10 boards a night is easy work now?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-02-2008 2:12 PM]
EnySpree
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2/2/2008  2:13 PM
Posted by Anji:

When the knicks run sets for Zach, it is basically like having a guard shoot jumpshots. I don't his game, it's too far from the basket.

You still need a big man that can shoot it. Can't have everyone craming it inside. That's what Lee and Curry can't work. Lee would have to be the one to spot up. That takes away from Lees game.

Bottom line man.....Curry has to go. He needs too many touches and he doesn't do anything else. Its not even touches.....its special touches.......then when he gets it he either scores or turns the ball over. Geezus!

Zach fits he just has to evolve his game. He has to keep passing and making better/faster reads on offense. Stop forcing it. He's a good player.
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martin
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2/2/2008  2:14 PM
HOw come Bonnie always ends up talking about the physiques of the basketball players?
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Siar617
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2/2/2008  2:35 PM
keep curry trade zbo to mil for charlie and what ever other trash we have to take to make it work
charlie can do everything zbo does at a better % and he blocks shots and is 6'11 not 6'8
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SlimPack
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2/2/2008  2:36 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by SlimPack:

More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.


If you could name a guy or guys making what Randolph is that would give us a quality trade then by all means enlighten us. But otherwise your just duplicating the same mistakes Isiah made with Hardaway, Francis, and Randolph. Your bringing in a guy with another huge contract which this time next year you will be saying the exact same thing you are saying right now. "This guy doesn't fit we have to move him". But otherwise I don't see anyone coming down the pike and we're are not in Portland' situation where we have a bunch of young guys ready to step in to play.

What? When did I say anything about bringing in another guy with a huge contract . Anyway when I say the Knicks should only keep one of Zach or Lee I'm really only speaking long term. For a while the Knicks can probably get away with them both (since unlike Curry, at least they both compete), ultimately I think one has to go because they both play the same position, and both deserve to start. Basically, what I'm saying is that I don't think a 50 win Knick team would have Lee, and Randolph in the SL. Well unless Lee' greatly improves his D. Also the Knicks don't need to win games right now anyway, so it's not imperative that one or the other is traded, but I think ultimately one has to.

Since Zach is making the big bucks, and is older may as well trade him and keep Lee as part of the new team. Of course it should be a smart trade, I'm not saying trade Randolph for Kmart, more like trade him to some team that's willing to take on his salary in order to compete now like the Lakers recently did with Gasol in a salary dump trade. I'm not sure what team would do that though Cleveland? Anyway, since Randolph doesn't seem to be a cancer in any way, it might not be a bad idea to just keep Randolph for a while in hopes that his value increases before trading him.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 02-02-2008 2:43 PM]
EnySpree
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2/2/2008  2:55 PM
Zach is not fat. He's not a muscle bound freak like say Dorsey of Memphis(college). Zach is still strong as hell. He would have to be strong to get 10 rebs with no verticle leap. He holds great position and boxes out.

Zach's head is big, yes. His arms are yucky, yes......he's still not fat like Jerome or Eddy Curry.

If you want to see some muscle pick up an issue of Flex magazine.
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bitty41
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2/2/2008  3:07 PM
Posted by Siar617:

keep curry trade zbo to mil for charlie and what ever other trash we have to take to make it work
charlie can do everything zbo does at a better % and he blocks shots and is 6'11 not 6'8

Charlie V excuse me while I laugh for a good 20 mins have you seen Charlie V play in the past 3 years? Seriously b/c he does NOT do the same thing Zach does only better. Dammit why I am even responding to this ridiculous nonesense.
EnySpree
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2/2/2008  4:02 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Siar617:

keep curry trade zbo to mil for charlie and what ever other trash we have to take to make it work
charlie can do everything zbo does at a better % and he blocks shots and is 6'11 not 6'8

Charlie V excuse me while I laugh for a good 20 mins have you seen Charlie V play in the past 3 years? Seriously b/c he does NOT do the same thing Zach does only better. Dammit why I am even responding to this ridiculous nonesense.

To raise your post count. Why else?

I'm trying to get to 10k so I can live forever.
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TMS
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2/2/2008  5:00 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Siar617:

keep curry trade zbo to mil for charlie and what ever other trash we have to take to make it work
charlie can do everything zbo does at a better % and he blocks shots and is 6'11 not 6'8

Charlie V excuse me while I laugh for a good 20 mins have you seen Charlie V play in the past 3 years? Seriously b/c he does NOT do the same thing Zach does only better. Dammit why I am even responding to this ridiculous nonesense.

To raise your post count. Why else?

I'm trying to get to 10k so I can live forever.

join us!

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TMS
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2/2/2008  5:03 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by SlimPack:

More importantly, We need a competent General Manager.

Anyway, I don't think Zach fits on this team. I think this team can only keep one of Zach or Lee. When they start together there just isn't enough defense between the two of them. Not to mention that they are both PF's not centers.


If you could name a guy or guys making what Randolph is that would give us a quality trade then by all means enlighten us. But otherwise your just duplicating the same mistakes Isiah made with Hardaway, Francis, and Randolph. Your bringing in a guy with another huge contract which this time next year you will be saying the exact same thing you are saying right now. "This guy doesn't fit we have to move him". But otherwise I don't see anyone coming down the pike and we're are not in Portland' situation where we have a bunch of young guys ready to step in to play.

the point is to dump that heinous contract of his... we've gone through this many times already & you still don't want to hear that as a legitimate reason... there's no one in the game that's better than Zach that you can realistically get for him in a trade who carries a worse contract because no team in the league w/that type of player will want to trade him to use in order to get Zach, so that's a moot point that's not even worth discussing... the only beneficial trade we can make right now is to get back whatever we can get w/a shorter term contract than his & move on... if we can somehow land a pick in the process, it's a bonus.
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Bonn1997
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2/2/2008  5:50 PM
Posted by bitty41:
That's your biggest issue with Zach?! My biggest issue with Zach is that he's fat and out of shape and won't do the tough, unrewarding work in the off-season or even during the game to help his team win.

I think a lot of men wouldn't mind being "out of shape" grabbing 10 boards a game in the NBA. Some players are just chunky like Barkley was; this isn't a Vogue Photoshoot. If his weight is a problem meaning he's unable to play long stretches or he's not able to rebound b/c he's fat or whatever then okay. Otherwise Bonn do you anything basketball related you would like to add to the discussion? Also grabbing 10 boards a night is easy work now?

[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-02-2008 2:12 PM]
When you're stealing rbs from your teammates to pad your stats, it's easy to get a lot of rbs. Zach's fat. Zach's lazy on and off the court. He puts so much energy into padding his rb stats that he has no energy to play defense.
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