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If we choose a plan now, what model allows us to become a contender the fastest?
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JohnWallace44
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1/30/2008  1:54 AM
Celtics
- Keep the faith that somehow Isiah's plan works, and we are able to trade a mix of junk and potential for two superstar players in their primes and the rest of the pieces just fall into place.

Warriors
- We trade away all of the slowfooted fatties for disgruntled speedsters to go with Nate and Balkman

Blazers
- Allow the team to flounder, build through the lottery, get rid of the malcontents, let sit and wait a few seasons to gel.

Hornets
- Just wait for an all league point to fall to you in the draft.

Suns
- Trade away all the fatties and Steph and build through international scouting.

Spurs
- Umm... that'll never happen

Pistons
- Build the team around physical playing retreads and find a silky smooth shooter in the draft.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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JohnWallace44
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1/30/2008  2:07 AM
Watching us play against Golden State the other day made me think, hwy why don't we do that all the time?

I think you could build a Golden State like team very quickly if we were motivated to do so. Nate looks like our best player lately. I think you could trade for or draft players relatively quickly that would be able to fit a system like that.

If it didn't work... that Golden State game was entertaining as hell so I wouldn't mind watching us lose and run the floor all night as much as I do seeing us lose and look like we have our feet in quicksand.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
kam77
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1/30/2008  2:08 AM
We're not built for the run and gun game with our bigs.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
EnySpree
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1/30/2008  6:55 AM
Posted by kam77:

We're not built for the run and gun game with our bigs.

That's why its time to trade Curry. Against Golden State and the Lakers the Knicks looked awesome on the break. Knicks need an anti-curry. Damn I wish the Knicks still had Camby!
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kam77
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1/30/2008  9:02 AM
Jeffries is the anti-curry... stick him at Center and tell him to block shots and grab boards.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
knicksbabyyeah
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1/30/2008  9:21 AM
Yep, trade Curry for the best offer out there, that doesn't have to include a center, and stick SlimJJ at center
NYKBocker
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1/30/2008  9:27 AM
Posted by kam77:

Jeffries is the anti-curry... stick him at Center and tell him to block shots and grab boards.

Not a bad idea. He scraps and knows his role. He would not have to be expected to make perimeter shots and he is definately long enough.
VDesai
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1/30/2008  9:32 AM
I've said for a while now we should follow the Warriors/Suns model. That's why I wanted to keep Frye over Curry. Now that Marbury's out of the way we're closer than ever. We have the personnell to press people (Lee, Balk, Nate, Collins, Jefferies and even Craw can do this). Curry would be next to go. Zach is obviously not a prototypical player, but his ability to go after the ball and comfort in a gunning offense actually lets him fit as a big in this sort of situation. QRich is even pretty comfortable in that kind of O.

I think its something that would allow us to have a lot of success in the East. Not many teams play that kind of pace and I think we could take advantage of it.

Jeez- if Curry could somehow be traded for an athletic, defensive minded big- even someone raw on O at this point. That would really be ideal. That Milwaukee package of Charlie, Gadz and Simmons would actually be suited to play in this style.
Panos
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1/30/2008  11:08 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by kam77:

Jeffries is the anti-curry... stick him at Center and tell him to block shots and grab boards.

Not a bad idea. He scraps and knows his role. He would not have to be expected to make perimeter shots and he is definately long enough.

PERIMETER SHOTS?! THE GUY MISSES LAYUPS!
You guys are outta your f'in gourds... Seriously.
SupremeCommander
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1/30/2008  11:20 AM
How about the New York Knicks model?

Money is no object to this franchise, but the cap is. If Dolan wants to spend $100+ million on the team, why not hire the best coaching, scouting, and medical staffs available? Why not grab Jerry Colangelo? WHy not focus on getting as many VALUABLE players as possible (meaning: great production per dollar players)?

Given the team's resources and the Knicks' reluctance to purge the cap of all these mistakes, the Pistons' model may be the best shot this team has... I'm not suggesting that the team will become similar in style, only that swapping veterans for youth (Stackhouse for Rip... which wasn't a sure thing for the Pistons at first) and then grabbing a star veteran at the right time.

If the Knicks could get in that $60-70 million cap range and make sure no one is grossly overpaid a la the Pistons, the team would have no major TEAM weaknesses. Maybe no dominant star, but maybe this hypothetical squad would remind the old timers of the 1969-70 Knicks.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
islesfan
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1/30/2008  1:24 PM
The Blazers model was always the way to do it.

The Knicks would have been in amazing shape if they had done that from the beginning, as long as Isiah was never hired.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
kam77
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1/30/2008  1:38 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by kam77:

Jeffries is the anti-curry... stick him at Center and tell him to block shots and grab boards.

Not a bad idea. He scraps and knows his role. He would not have to be expected to make perimeter shots and he is definately long enough.

PERIMETER SHOTS?! THE GUY MISSES LAYUPS!
You guys are outta your f'in gourds... Seriously.

We don't need Jared Jeffries, to be the guy the offense runs through. We're asking him to make the occasional tip-in on offense. Aside from that, we want him to use his long arms to block shots and get rebounds. JJ1 and JJ2... let em play C.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
bitty41
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1/30/2008  1:52 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Celtics
- Keep the faith that somehow Isiah's plan works, and we are able to trade a mix of junk and potential for two superstar players in their primes and the rest of the pieces just fall into place.

Warriors
- We trade away all of the slowfooted fatties for disgruntled speedsters to go with Nate and Balkman

Blazers
- Allow the team to flounder, build through the lottery, get rid of the malcontents, let sit and wait a few seasons to gel.

Hornets
- Just wait for an all league point to fall to you in the draft.

Suns
- Trade away all the fatties and Steph and build through international scouting.

Spurs
- Umm... that'll never happen

Pistons
- Build the team around physical playing retreads and find a silky smooth shooter in the draft.

I have a problem with the teams you listed. B/c some of them haven't even had a strong playoff performance let alone shown themselves to be contenders. NO, Portland, Warriors (highly suspect), and even the Celtics. With the exception of GS most of these teams haven't even been a playoff series for awhile so I think its a bit presumptious to call them contenders.
iyamwutiam
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1/30/2008  4:26 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Celtics
- Keep the faith that somehow Isiah's plan works, and we are able to trade a mix of junk and potential for two superstar players in their primes and the rest of the pieces just fall into place.

Warriors
- We trade away all of the slowfooted fatties for disgruntled speedsters to go with Nate and Balkman

Blazers
- Allow the team to flounder, build through the lottery, get rid of the malcontents, let sit and wait a few seasons to gel.

Hornets
- Just wait for an all league point to fall to you in the draft.

Suns
- Trade away all the fatties and Steph and build through international scouting.

Spurs
- Umm... that'll never happen

Pistons
- Build the team around physical playing retreads and find a silky smooth shooter in the draft.

I have a problem with the teams you listed. B/c some of them haven't even had a strong playoff performance let alone shown themselves to be contenders. NO, Portland, Warriors (highly suspect), and even the Celtics. With the exception of GS most of these teams haven't even been a playoff series for awhile so I think its a bit presumptious to call them contenders.

The warrior were lucky- they picked up a disgruntled Baron when he was chronically injured and like McDyess- who screwed the Knicks sitting on the bench collecting paycheck after paycheck for YEARS- till he went to Detroit healthy and became a better player- the Knicks were the best HMO money could buy-ask Allan Houston amongst others. In addition- Larry Bird lost all sense of perspective - when he traded the most consistent piece of the Pacers- Stephen Jackson and threw in Harrington- those kind of lopsided trades rarely happen.

The blazers since 2003/2004 have been rebuilding in earnest with the Rasheed walace trade which netted them: Atlanta Hawks General Manager Billy Knight announced Monday night that the club has obtained the services of forward/center Rasheed Wallace and guard Wesley Person from the Portland Trail Blazers for forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim, center Theo Ratliff and guard Dan Dickau. Sharif expired in 2005, Ratliffe was traded for Brandon Roy. Theo Ratiffe, etc got them Brandon Roy. http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/Trail_Blazers_Land_Brandon_Roy-183312-1177.html
Anyway - the point is they did a combinatino of trades, high draft picks and most importantly some support from other NBA teams. I was in Portland from 2005-2007 and I can tell you until Paul Allen and the Blazers got the number one pick - most of Oregon was like take your publicly financed team and the corrupt deals involving the rose garden and go-- it really was that bad- and so followed the traditional 'miracles' in the NBa of teams in severe trouble beating the lottery and getting number one picks -Orlando, Philadelphia and San Antonio. Anyway - the point is no one had any inkling that this would be the yer they jelled- and it brings into question - if their gigantor 7'1" plodder will disrupt the play they have going on now.

NOH won like 16 games in the PG derby called the draft and the moves on that team were anything but stellar the first few years in terms of trades. anyway - they had a true superstar (all-star) in Davis and traded him to get salary cap space. Again a bunch of trades for cap space- and then some luck in the draft of 2003 with David West 'finally' developing as the all round PF with a jumper.

Anyway -a lot of these teams were built or destroyed with trades. You can hardly find a team that didn't us trades to accelerate the process and in addition - they all suffered really bad losing seasons for around 3 years- and those were the teams that did it the quickest.





[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-30-2008 4:28 PM]
MS
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1/30/2008  4:38 PM
Start

Nate/Collins
Crawford/Chandler
Balkman/Q
Lee/Jefferies
Randolf/Curry

Let those guys develop some chemistry.

This trade works under the cap, if McChale is dump enough to do it, if not just try to get rid of thes two guys anyway.

Incoming Players
Jamal Crawford
Eddy Curry

Randy Foye
Theo Ratliff

Derek Rose is who we need, so play the kids limit the veteran minutes who cares what happens out there just let some of the younger guys continue to grow. You need to accumalte talent and look at a new regime in place. Grunwald needs to go and we need a coach that preaches defense, Van Gundy, Carlisle whoever.
SlimPack
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1/30/2008  4:40 PM
The Detroit way I guess. Although I don't know if the Knicks would actually become contender's then. The Knicks should seek to make a trade that somehow makes them worse for now but better later on. Maybe for a player that's injured this season but can come back next season, or a potential player that can put it all together soon. I dunno, in any case I don't think the Knicks need to, or should tear it all down like some people do. We'd be a good deal better just making smart trades from here on out.
nixluva
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1/30/2008  5:43 PM
If we're talking about the non fat guys on the team then you have an uptempo team, tho not necessarily a running team. Just one that can play a little faster and get some steals that lead to breaks. Nate is a one man break anyway. I would agree that an athletic shotblocking/rebounding Center would fit best with this group.

Zach can play at a higher tempo. Curry seems to be out of synch with the rest of the team. Once Steph was taken out of the picture you could clearly see that the team has a slant towards a different style of game. Steph, Curry, Q, James, Malik all would seem to fit better at this point on a half court team.

There is something to be said tho, for being able to play both ways and with Curry here we can do that. In the Playoffs you may need a good halfcourt game. Lessening his role might be another option. Bring in the young stud PF/C for defense and an uptempo style. When we want to have a post presence bring in Curry.
TrueBlue
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1/30/2008  5:51 PM
Posted by nixluva:

If we're talking about the non fat guys on the team then you have an uptempo team, tho not necessarily a running team. Just one that can play a little faster and get some steals that lead to breaks. Nate is a one man break anyway. I would agree that an athletic shotblocking/rebounding Center would fit best with this group.

Zach can play at a higher tempo. Curry seems to be out of synch with the rest of the team. Once Steph was taken out of the picture you could clearly see that the team has a slant towards a different style of game. Steph, Curry, Q, James, Malik all would seem to fit better at this point on a half court team.

There is something to be said tho, for being able to play both ways and with Curry here we can do that. In the Playoffs you may need a good halfcourt game. Lessening his role might be another option. Bring in the young stud PF/C for defense and an uptempo style. When we want to have a post presence bring in Curry.

So are you saying by your last two paragraphs keep Zach, Curry, Lee, and bring in another guy to help in the front court?
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nixluva
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1/30/2008  6:24 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:

If we're talking about the non fat guys on the team then you have an uptempo team, tho not necessarily a running team. Just one that can play a little faster and get some steals that lead to breaks. Nate is a one man break anyway. I would agree that an athletic shotblocking/rebounding Center would fit best with this group.

Zach can play at a higher tempo. Curry seems to be out of synch with the rest of the team. Once Steph was taken out of the picture you could clearly see that the team has a slant towards a different style of game. Steph, Curry, Q, James, Malik all would seem to fit better at this point on a half court team.

There is something to be said tho, for being able to play both ways and with Curry here we can do that. In the Playoffs you may need a good halfcourt game. Lessening his role might be another option. Bring in the young stud PF/C for defense and an uptempo style. When we want to have a post presence bring in Curry.

So are you saying by your last two paragraphs keep Zach, Curry, Lee, and bring in another guy to help in the front court?

No I didn't make myself clear, but I was thinking that you'd have to move either Zach or Lee, if you felt that keeping Curry for his post up game was important. Given that you'd be adding a PF/C who could rebound you could do without Lee or Zach. Depends on who you felt was best to move forward with I guess. It's only an option and i'm not really advocating this option over the idea of just moving Curry and going with a mostly uptempo game.
misterearl
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1/30/2008  6:28 PM
C - Brook Lopez / Morris
PF - D Lee / Malik
SF - Balkman/ Jeffries
SG - The Mayor/ b. Nate
PG - Jamal / a. Nate
once a knick always a knick
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If we choose a plan now, what model allows us to become a contender the fastest?
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