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Chink in the armor--David Lee
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BRIGGS
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1/18/2008  10:51 PM
Before David was injured--he was truly turning into one of the top young prospects in the league in the team game. He has lost some explosion--and that has effected his game. He was able to dunk anything on almost anybody near the basket--the same stuff is being put back in his face too much this year. Except for a couple of games--he's not the saem player and it shows up in his FG%. He's been spending some time barking at refs and turning the ball over when last year those passes would be awesome. What was he 14-14 in that sophmore game last year?? Right now that David Lee isnt with us.
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
buddapaw
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1/18/2008  10:56 PM
You got that right
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
Cash
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1/18/2008  11:00 PM
I think part of it is Curry and Zach. I think this has led to less guard penetration overall, because Curry and Zach are clogging the lane(whichever one he is playing with), and because we are pushing the ball into both of them alot, instead of having our guards penetrate and dish for easy baskets.

He has always been a big complainer with the refs.

After accounting for the above, I agree that he has either lost some explosiveness, or he is just not as into playing as hard for this team as he used to be.
King1
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1/18/2008  11:04 PM
I agree Briggs it isnt physical look what he does when he plays 30 minutes. He has got 18 shots in the last 5 games and I am not saying he needs shots but I am sure frustration is setting in. David isnt a great player and the things he can do on a basketball floor wont help the Knicks team. He is the trading chip that can fill a hole. He is shootingt 52% from the field and I dont think he is adjusting well to his role on this team. If he doenst take care of the ball then he doesnt need to be playing. I wish someone would look at this numbers when he plays 30 minutes they will be gaudy. He needs minutes because he wears people down offensive rebounding like a running back and gets big offensive boards late in the game. If the other team knows they have to keep him off the board for 20 minutes vs 35 they are more likely to be succesful.
babyKnicks
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1/18/2008  11:36 PM
trade him
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
TrueBlue
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1/18/2008  11:55 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

trade him

If I say it I'm being overly negative.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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1/19/2008  12:05 AM
yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TrueBlue
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1/19/2008  12:20 AM
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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1/19/2008  12:39 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
iyamwutiam
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1/19/2008  1:03 AM
yo! leave David alone - not only is a cousin of my- related thru M&M but - how many bro's do you really meet - who care about being being a basketball player after earning their first 400K. Anyway - leave David alone - after all- all he does is bust his ass. Curry has more potential in his left foot, and James/Randolph in his right foot - but you don't see them gettin upset that they are not gettin better every year.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 01-19-2008 01:05 AM]
TrueBlue
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1/19/2008  1:04 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]


No No No! Wrong Wrong Wrong!


You take back expirings and assure the team's suckiness to be worse than 33wins, to be worse than 30wins, to be worse than 25wins if possible by next yr. That's part of your problem TKF your base has us at about 40wins and you're trying to eek out moves that will possibly make us 5wins better. My base is 30wins and I want to make moves that make us 5gms worse nest yr and set us up with cap space and assets in 2009/2010. And of course there is no guarantee we strike anything in two yrs but at least give us a shot or the option to catch a break. I'm not interested in seeing how far Jamal and Lee can take this team, they have a ceiling it's not high. Curry has low trade value, you hate Zach and deservedly so, but his value is just as low as Curry's if not lower. So how do you devise a plan helping Lee and Crawford down the road? You even think Balk and Nate can remain here. So you've named your Pawns(Curry, Zach, Q, Malik, James, Jeffries, Jones) None of those guys will get good enough returns to help Crawford and Lee to be a consistent 45win team and better. We also owe a future first rounder to Utah. Do you realize how good have to be real fast in order not to get Assed Out again? Even if we traded just Zach, no way the team as currently constructed can win 40gms next yr. You want more wins this yr, you're rooting for them,... at best where does the season win total lie TKF?


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-19-2008 12:10 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
oohah
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1/19/2008  1:05 AM
Why bring up Lee's injury or his "new role"?

He's healthy, he plays the exact same way he did the past 2 seasons. His numbers are right in line with the way he has produced in his career. The big difference is his field goal percentage is down to 52%(!) because he is trying to score on his own move a little more rather than just dunks off of cuts and put-backs.

So there is no problem with Lee as compared to last year.

The problem, if we must find one, is that Lee has not improved his defense -- worst on the team -- and he still can't hit a shot from outside of 5 feet. If it isn't a dunk or a layup, Lee generally cannot score.

***

I am not trying to be harsh, I just want to know why Lee is the same player this year as he was last year.

I expected to see at least a consistent 10 foot set shot from Lee this year, and I hoped for a 15 foot jump shot.

I expected to see Lee step in looking a little more toned and wiry this season, committed to defense. Instead, he looked out of shape over the first month of the season, and he just does not play defense. Zach Randolph plays defense badly -- Lee just doesn't play defense.

And I have to admit, as his first proponent on this forum, I am slightly disappointed that he has not grown his game.

***

I have a question which I address specifically to King:

King, did he not work on and dedicate himself to those aspects of his game this summer? Was new York too much fun?

Can Lee develop a consistent shot just to keep defenses honest? Can he play some defense?

Are those 2 aspects within his ability? I sure thought they were. I'm just wondering...

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Nalod
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1/19/2008  1:10 AM
Knicks are a brutally losing environment that brings it bad for everyone involved.

His inutes are inconsistant and his role changes.

I watch games and he seems to play hard, get rebounds and make some nice outlet passes. He is no stat machine, but all winning teams have guys that contribute in so many ways.

He is no star, but should be considered untouchable.
tkf
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1/19/2008  1:11 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]


No No No! Wrong Wrong Wrong! You take back expirings and assure the team's suckiness to be worse than 33wins, to be worse than 30wins, to be worse than 25wins if possible by next yr. That's part of your problem TKF your base has us at about 40wins and you're trying to eek out moves that will possibly make us 5wins better. My base is 30wins and I want to make moves that make us 5gms worse to set us up with cap space and assets in 2009/2010. And of course there is no guarantee we strike anything in two yrs but at least give us a shot or the option to catch a break. I'm not interested in seeing how far Jamal and Lee can take this team they have a ceiling. Curry has low trade value you hate Zach and deservedly so but his value is just as low as Curry's if not lower. So how do you devise a plan helping Lee and Crawford down the road? You even think Balk and Lee can remain here. So you've names your Pawns(Curry, Zach, Q, Malik, James, Jeffries, Jones) None of those guys will get good enough returns to help Crawford and Lee to be a consistent 45win team and better. We also owe a future first rounder to Utah. Do you realize how good we're have to be real fast in order not to get Assed Out again? Even if we traded just Zach, no way the team as currently constructed can win 40gms next yr. You want more wins this yr, you're rooting for them,... at best where does the season win total lie TKF?

TB: i really think you are smarter than this bro... How long have you been a fan of the knicks? Tell me, when was the last time this franchise has done a complete dump job? I understand what you and many of want, but I also understand what is not going to happen. The best we can hope for is to keep guys like lee and balkman, and make no moves really. With this team, that will be no better than 35 wins... Then hope like hell, whoever our GM is can make good with the next two years draft lottery picks, which may be in the range of 4-9.. just hope like hell and amare type of player or a wade type slips to us... This is more likely.. rootin for loses, hoping Isiah or whoever will be allowed to dump every young piece we have to get rid of other pieces like zach and eddy is a wet dream bro... wake up muttley. You are dreaming again... I understand what you want. I want the same thing. But look, do you think that will ever happen?

it is so sad, I said this to blueseats before.. isiah will have to use the few good moves he made(ie: lee) to help rid himself of his blunders(zach,eddy, jeffries) that is such a got damn shame.... I just don't want to lose lee like this bro..


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 01:18 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/19/2008  1:15 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Knicks are a brutally losing environment that brings it bad for everyone involved.

His inutes are inconsistant and his role changes.

I watch games and he seems to play hard, get rebounds and make some nice outlet passes. He is no stat machine, but all winning teams have guys that contribute in so many ways.

He is no star, but should be considered untouchable.


I agree, at some point you are going to have to realize that if we do get lucky enough to get that franchise player in the draft, we are going to need a lee and a balkman or even a jamal somewhere... This is why the cavs are hot after jamal. They are almost in no mans land. Lebron will always make them good enough to be a playoff team, but not bad enough to get them picks high enough to bring in some quality role players....

I think that is why boozer leaving that team really hurt cleveland.. and honestly boozer. I think boozer best chances of ever winning a ring may have been in cleveland. If only he knew how good lebron would be, before he lied and duped a blind guy in cleveland... Something about that move, makes, hate the hell out of boozer...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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1/19/2008  1:23 AM
True: I hope we can get that, I am tired really of rooting for a team going nowhere, but I still root, I am a knick diehard, I hate to see guys like lee and balk and nate, hell even craw, lose this way. I think they are good kids. I also hate watching Isiah on that damn bench with aguirre and crew. I don't think those guys can coach at all... If a true rebuild is going to happen, the Isiah needs to be fired this year, so the next GM can evaluate this mess, make some moves this year and draft accordingly.. we have 2 drafts to get a big time talent... our 2010 is unprotected.. thanks to lord Isiah..

In the end.. believe me, we all want the same thing bro.. In the interim, I will enjoy whatever win we can get.... LOL.. I know you won't, but I will....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TrueBlue
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1/19/2008  1:24 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]


No No No! Wrong Wrong Wrong! You take back expirings and assure the team's suckiness to be worse than 33wins, to be worse than 30wins, to be worse than 25wins if possible by next yr. That's part of your problem TKF your base has us at about 40wins and you're trying to eek out moves that will possibly make us 5wins better. My base is 30wins and I want to make moves that make us 5gms worse to set us up with cap space and assets in 2009/2010. And of course there is no guarantee we strike anything in two yrs but at least give us a shot or the option to catch a break. I'm not interested in seeing how far Jamal and Lee can take this team they have a ceiling. Curry has low trade value you hate Zach and deservedly so but his value is just as low as Curry's if not lower. So how do you devise a plan helping Lee and Crawford down the road? You even think Balk and Lee can remain here. So you've names your Pawns(Curry, Zach, Q, Malik, James, Jeffries, Jones) None of those guys will get good enough returns to help Crawford and Lee to be a consistent 45win team and better. We also owe a future first rounder to Utah. Do you realize how good we're have to be real fast in order not to get Assed Out again? Even if we traded just Zach, no way the team as currently constructed can win 40gms next yr. You want more wins this yr, you're rooting for them,... at best where does the season win total lie TKF?

TB: i really think you are smarter than this bro... How long have you been a fan of the knicks? Tell me, when was the last time this franchise has done a complete dump job? I understand what you and many of want, but I also understand what is not going to happen. The best we can hope for is to keep guys like lee and balkman, and make no moves really. With this team, that will be no better than 35 wins... Then hope like hell, whoever our GM is can make good with the next two years draft lottery picks, which may be in the range of 4-9.. just hope like hell and amare type of player or a wade type slips to us... This is more likely.. rootin for loses, hoping Isiah or whoever will be allowed to dump every young piece we have to get rid of other pieces is a wet dream bro... wake up muttley. You are dreaming again... I understand what you want. I want the same thing. But look, do you think that will ever happen?


You need to understand we won't get that player if we keep winning more games. 33wins is a No No this yr 23wins oh yeah. Look at the impact Curry's winning shot had on the Bulls this past summer that's how critical each win or loss can be. And if we're going off the past with the understanding I SAY UGH and Dolan are here to stay then that 8th 9th pick in the draft winning 33-35gms will do no good because we know they'll pass on a project caliber player of Bynum because New York will be too tough on him so they'll go with a safe pick talent guy. We need a Top 5 pick and it's not debatable. Heck, even if we rather not exercise the pick just think of the kind of trade value it will have on draft night.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 01-19-2008 12:33 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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1/19/2008  1:36 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]


No No No! Wrong Wrong Wrong! You take back expirings and assure the team's suckiness to be worse than 33wins, to be worse than 30wins, to be worse than 25wins if possible by next yr. That's part of your problem TKF your base has us at about 40wins and you're trying to eek out moves that will possibly make us 5wins better. My base is 30wins and I want to make moves that make us 5gms worse to set us up with cap space and assets in 2009/2010. And of course there is no guarantee we strike anything in two yrs but at least give us a shot or the option to catch a break. I'm not interested in seeing how far Jamal and Lee can take this team they have a ceiling. Curry has low trade value you hate Zach and deservedly so but his value is just as low as Curry's if not lower. So how do you devise a plan helping Lee and Crawford down the road? You even think Balk and Lee can remain here. So you've names your Pawns(Curry, Zach, Q, Malik, James, Jeffries, Jones) None of those guys will get good enough returns to help Crawford and Lee to be a consistent 45win team and better. We also owe a future first rounder to Utah. Do you realize how good we're have to be real fast in order not to get Assed Out again? Even if we traded just Zach, no way the team as currently constructed can win 40gms next yr. You want more wins this yr, you're rooting for them,... at best where does the season win total lie TKF?

TB: i really think you are smarter than this bro... How long have you been a fan of the knicks? Tell me, when was the last time this franchise has done a complete dump job? I understand what you and many of want, but I also understand what is not going to happen. The best we can hope for is to keep guys like lee and balkman, and make no moves really. With this team, that will be no better than 35 wins... Then hope like hell, whoever our GM is can make good with the next two years draft lottery picks, which may be in the range of 4-9.. just hope like hell and amare type of player or a wade type slips to us... This is more likely.. rootin for loses, hoping Isiah or whoever will be allowed to dump every young piece we have to get rid of other pieces is a wet dream bro... wake up muttley. You are dreaming again... I understand what you want. I want the same thing. But look, do you think that will ever happen?


You need to understand we won't get that player if we keep winning more games. 33wins is a No No this yr 23wins oh yeah. Look at the impact Curry's winning shot had on the Bulls this past summer that how critical each win or loss can be. And if we're going off the past with the understanding I SAY UGH and Dolan are here to stay then that 8th 9th pick in the draft winning 33-35gms will do not good because We know they'll pass on a project caliber player of Bynum because New York will be too tough on him so they'll go with a safe pick talent guy. We need a Top 5 pick and it's not debatable. Heck even if we rather not exercise the pick just think of the kind of trade value it will have on draft night.


very good points, can't argue with that... but understand , just because I enjoy wins doesn't mean I don't want a high lottery pick... I know we are going to win no more than 30 games at this rate, so I can enjoy the rare wins, and still hope for a top 5 pick... I am just not down with tanking....

The more I look at it now, the bigger the disaster the curry trade is.. honestly, could anyone have predicted it be this bad?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TrueBlue
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1/19/2008  1:48 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by tkf:

yea, lets trade him for the 30th pick in the draft.......oh wait.....

I said if it came to that to get rid of Jeffries and James. I love how you leave things out. BTW what pick was Lee?

I am just following your lead bro. how you like to twist shyt.. you are the king of swing...
BTW what pick was Lee?

are you that slow? that is why I said that.. believe me, not too many times you are going to find a player like lee with pick 30... Good damn luck tho.. as long as lee is out of here, you won't have to be reminded of the days we won 33 games.... we will just enjoy that 30th pick rotting at the end of the bench for a team that now wins 36 games.....


[Edited by - tkf on 19-01-2008 12:41 AM]


No No No! Wrong Wrong Wrong! You take back expirings and assure the team's suckiness to be worse than 33wins, to be worse than 30wins, to be worse than 25wins if possible by next yr. That's part of your problem TKF your base has us at about 40wins and you're trying to eek out moves that will possibly make us 5wins better. My base is 30wins and I want to make moves that make us 5gms worse to set us up with cap space and assets in 2009/2010. And of course there is no guarantee we strike anything in two yrs but at least give us a shot or the option to catch a break. I'm not interested in seeing how far Jamal and Lee can take this team they have a ceiling. Curry has low trade value you hate Zach and deservedly so but his value is just as low as Curry's if not lower. So how do you devise a plan helping Lee and Crawford down the road? You even think Balk and Lee can remain here. So you've names your Pawns(Curry, Zach, Q, Malik, James, Jeffries, Jones) None of those guys will get good enough returns to help Crawford and Lee to be a consistent 45win team and better. We also owe a future first rounder to Utah. Do you realize how good we're have to be real fast in order not to get Assed Out again? Even if we traded just Zach, no way the team as currently constructed can win 40gms next yr. You want more wins this yr, you're rooting for them,... at best where does the season win total lie TKF?

TB: i really think you are smarter than this bro... How long have you been a fan of the knicks? Tell me, when was the last time this franchise has done a complete dump job? I understand what you and many of want, but I also understand what is not going to happen. The best we can hope for is to keep guys like lee and balkman, and make no moves really. With this team, that will be no better than 35 wins... Then hope like hell, whoever our GM is can make good with the next two years draft lottery picks, which may be in the range of 4-9.. just hope like hell and amare type of player or a wade type slips to us... This is more likely.. rootin for loses, hoping Isiah or whoever will be allowed to dump every young piece we have to get rid of other pieces is a wet dream bro... wake up muttley. You are dreaming again... I understand what you want. I want the same thing. But look, do you think that will ever happen?


You need to understand we won't get that player if we keep winning more games. 33wins is a No No this yr 23wins oh yeah. Look at the impact Curry's winning shot had on the Bulls this past summer that how critical each win or loss can be. And if we're going off the past with the understanding I SAY UGH and Dolan are here to stay then that 8th 9th pick in the draft winning 33-35gms will do not good because We know they'll pass on a project caliber player of Bynum because New York will be too tough on him so they'll go with a safe pick talent guy. We need a Top 5 pick and it's not debatable. Heck even if we rather not exercise the pick just think of the kind of trade value it will have on draft night.


very good points, can't argue with that... but understand , just because I enjoy wins doesn't mean I don't want a high lottery pick... I know we are going to win no more than 30 games at this rate, so I can enjoy the rare wins, and still hope for a top 5 pick... I am just not down with tanking....

The more I look at it now, the bigger the disaster the curry trade is.. honestly, could anyone have predicted it be this bad?


What did I SAY UGH again about rather having Curry vs who? What A Buffoon! That's why I feel Curry is worthless. His game has contributed so bad to our state of affairs it's beyond depressing. And he's so content being what he is. Now that Jamal and Nate have caught lighting in a bottle we can't even build his value up properly, not to mention being coupled with Zach.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nyk4ever
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USA
1/19/2008  2:26 AM
David Lee isn't the problem with the Knicks. If anything IT should be finding a way to get him more shot attempts per game, not trade him. You just don't trade someone like Lee just because you're not a winning basketball team. Cmon guys.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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Chink in the armor--David Lee
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