if Clemens says on his 60 minutes interview that the trainer is lying. That was just reported on the radio.

Sooooooooo..................who's suing who?! I don't get it.

Yet, more people are coming foreward and admitting it. They know they're gonna have to admit it sooner or later. There's no choice, because they know baseball has a big black eye now. Now Clems and Pettitte are being ask to testify before a grand jury! Wow! Now it's getting serious. I wonder if Clems tries to pull a Barry or goes the way of Giambi, who eventually volunteered took it up the ass? Pardon my French.

I have to ask. Why would these trainers be lying through they're teeth like that? Thay have nothing to gain. On their part, it makes no logical sense, so why do it, if it wasn't true? Clemens is on full attack, because he has the Hall to lose now, not to mention his reputation.

Like I say all the time. You make you dumb, stupid mistakes when your in your teens or even very early twenties. Not when you in your thirties or older. Just stupid, just stupid. All of them.

well, after having watched the 60 minutes piece w/Mike Wallace, Roger sure makes a passionate case for his innocence... i seriously don't know what to believe at this point.

If he were truly innocent he would have cooperated in the Mitchell report

interesting... i guess that means the entire Mets organization & pretty much every player in baseball is guilty of using too, since none of them cooperated either... in fact, one of the only ones who did cooperate w/the Mitchell report was Jason Giambi, a guy who has pretty much admitted to using the stuff... but go ahead & keep trying to sound intelligent on this subject.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-07-2008 01:52 AM]

Posted by TMS:

If he were truly innocent he would have cooperated in the Mitchell report

interesting... i guess that means the entire Mets organization & pretty much every player in baseball is guilty of using too, since none of them cooperated either... in fact, one of the only ones who did cooperate w/the Mitchell report was Jason Giambi, a guy who has pretty much admitted to using the stuff... but go ahead & keep trying to sound intelligent on this subject.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-07-2008 01:52 AM]

Hey you're the one who believes Clemens might be telling the truth. Him saying he had "no idea" and was "shocked" Pettitte took HGH shows he was lying. How can that be when Clemens pretty much lived with that trainer non-stop for 7 years. Whenever a tough question was posed to Clemens, you see him look away from the camera and get all fidgety. Clemens complaining about money when asked if he would sue. Like money should be a big deal to Clemens whose made a fortune and is trying to clear his name. B-12 shots don't get administered in the butt. I could pick apart more of Clemens interview, but why bother, he is a clown, a bad actor and not telling the truth on anything.

Posted by majorleads:

Posted by TMS:

If he were truly innocent he would have cooperated in the Mitchell report

interesting... i guess that means the entire Mets organization & pretty much every player in baseball is guilty of using too, since none of them cooperated either... in fact, one of the only ones who did cooperate w/the Mitchell report was Jason Giambi, a guy who has pretty much admitted to using the stuff... but go ahead & keep trying to sound intelligent on this subject.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-07-2008 01:52 AM]

Hey you're the one who believes Clemens might be telling the truth. Him saying he had "no idea" and was "shocked" Pettitte took HGH shows he was lying. How can that be when Clemens pretty much lived with that trainer non-stop for 7 years. Whenever a tough question was posed to Clemens, you see him look away from the camera and get all fidgety. Clemens complaining about money when asked if he would sue. Like money should be a big deal to Clemens whose made a fortune and is trying to clear his name. B-12 shots don't get administered in the butt. I could pick apart more of Clemens interview, but why bother, he is a clown, a bad actor and not telling the truth on anything.

like i said i think he's probably guilty but then there's really no way for us to know for sure unless someone comes out w/solid evidence to prove it... in the case of Barry Bonds, we've seen his whole body completely change, his head grow about 3 sizes larger & his stats bloat to unprecedented levels... i have said i assume Bonds is guilty because of those factors, but still i have a problem w/pointing an accusing finger at him & singling him out when there were so many other players doing the exact same thing that he had to compete against... doesn't make it right obviously but where do u draw the line? are we only going after guys who have broken hallowed records & letting the rest of the guys escape public scrutiny for the same offense?

in Roger's case, he was a dominant pitcher a couple seasons before his alleged use started in TOR, & then after the alleged use had ended, he continued to pitch well & won another Cy Young w/HOU in '04... at no time during that alleged use did his stats just suddenly go through the roof to never before experienced & unprecedented levels the way Bonds' HR totals did... wouldn't it have made sense that if Roger was using that we'd have seen a much more pronounced improvement in his performance?... sure he could have been using in much smaller amounts than Bonds... i'm sure he wasn't drinking Elk semen milk shakes the way Bonds was rumored to do obviously... but we're talking about the best pitcher of our generation here even before the rumored use of PED's is alleged to have taken place... pump him up w/PED's & it just seems to me that the improvement would have been more noticeable... take a look at the 5 seasons he had in NY after his back to back Cy Young seasons in TOR... those aren't exactly alltime great statlines... is it possible that he stopped using when he came to NY? or is it possible that he just had 2 incredible seasons in TOR & came back down to earth when he came to NY? according to McNamee, Rocket was using continuously through the '01 season, but i don't see the stats to support that notion.

again, i acknowledge the fact that he probably did use considering Andy was his training partner & he already admitted to using the stuff... but there is that small amount of doubt that i think he still deserves a benefit of the doubt until we see how this all plays out during those Congressional hearings... maybe some more proof will come to light to either prove or disprove McNamee's allegations by then.

here is my huge problem w/the whole Mitchell report... for MLB to have endorsed all that heresay & alleged rumor as fact is a complete joke & a disgrace... Selig has managed to ruin the career of some of his most prized constituents & all he can do is act like the white caped holy crusader.

it's 1 thing to present these inuendos & accusations in a book u've written... Game of Shadows outlined Barry Bonds' roid use, but that wasn't endorsed by MLB... Jose Canseco did the same in his book 'Juiced' but MLB didn't put their logo behind that one either... if Selig wanted to so desperately get these rumors out to the public, he should have commissioned a book on his own as a private effort & not put MLB's name & reputation on its findings which are completely unsubstantiated at this point... how in the hell does one justify doing this to players in the league based off exclusive heresay evidence? Selig should be getting lambasted for publishing the Mitchell report right now IMHO.

just wanted to add, no doubt the phone call was rehearsed & staged by Clemens & his lawyer... he had to be careful not to make any sort of leading or coersive statement towards McNamee... for his part, maybe McNamee was fully aware that he was being taped... when he kept asking Roger "What do you want me to do?", that can easily be taken as a means for entrapment as well... perhaps that's why Rocket didn't directly tell him to admit to having lied to Sen. Mitchell for fear of being made to look to be trying to influence the witness in a federal investigation? he did say several times that he never took roids during that phone call & McNamee even went so far as acknowledging that he didn't... Roger repeats over & over that he just wants the truth to be known so he could clear his name... i didn't hear McNamee say anything to suggest that he thought Roger was being less than honest throughout that taped phonecall.

pretty much Rocket's being judged completely on the basis of hearsay testimony of a witness being interrogated under psychological & emotional duress... pretty flimsy grounds to start pointing any accusing fingers, don't u think?

it's a wonder why Mitchell would have put his name behind this report, unless there's some other solid evidence here that we're overlooking? perhaps it will all come out during the Congressional hearings... until then, i have a hard time assuming guilt here based on what is being made public right now.

i've already said i think Clemems probably did it... but there is definitely not enough grounds here to say for sure whether he did or didn't... good luck convicting anyone based on the flimsy evidence that was presented in this case against Clemens, yet people are so quick to cling to any evidence that points to his guilt & seem to be ignoring any evidence that points to his innocence... i have a problem with that type of reasoning.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-08-2008 10:09 AM]

& yet McNamee never corrected Clemens when he said repeatedly that he never used steroids... but go ahead & keep believing everything you hear out of the ESPN "experts" that Clemens is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt based on some shoddy evidence... obviously it's worked with majorleads.