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Do the Knicks have to be under the cap to re-sign Lee??
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blueNorange
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12/27/2007  1:51 PM
some Knick fans accept mediocrity as excellence .... I don't!
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TrueBlue
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12/27/2007  1:53 PM
Posted by blueNorange:


No!

You can always go over the cap no matter how far you are, to sign your own Free Agents or players due for extensions.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 12:53 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
SlimPack
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12/27/2007  1:53 PM
I'm pretty sure they don't.
blueNorange
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12/27/2007  1:58 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by blueNorange:


No!

You can always go over the cap no matter how far you are, to sign your own Free Agents or players due for extensions.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 12:53 PM]
Phew, thanks man ... since last year I was living in fear that the Knicks wouldn't be able to re-sign Lee.

Hopefully the contract he signs is for being the starting PF for the Knicks, what more does he have to do to be in it?? the guy improves every year.

Thanks Slimpack =D

[Edited by - bluenorange on 12-27-2007 1:59 PM]
some Knick fans accept mediocrity as excellence .... I don't!
TrueBlue
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12/27/2007  2:13 PM
Posted by blueNorange:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by blueNorange:


No!

You can always go over the cap no matter how far you are, to sign your own Free Agents or players due for extensions.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 12:53 PM]
Phew, thanks man ... since last year I was living in fear that the Knicks wouldn't be able to re-sign Lee.

Hopefully the contract he signs is for being the starting PF for the Knicks, what more does he have to do to be in it?? the guy improves every year.

Thanks Slimpack =D

[Edited by - bluenorange on 12-27-2007 1:59 PM]

I don't have access to Larry Coon's site to provide official NBA language on this, it would be helpful.

We can go over. The issue will be how much will we be willing to go? We'll still be getting hit up for Lux Tax dollars by the time we have to pay Lee his Scrilla. And Lee will have his suitors if we decide not to give him/Lee accepts an extension before he hits the market.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
blueNorange
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12/27/2007  2:19 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by blueNorange:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by blueNorange:


No!

You can always go over the cap no matter how far you are, to sign your own Free Agents or players due for extensions.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 12:53 PM]
Phew, thanks man ... since last year I was living in fear that the Knicks wouldn't be able to re-sign Lee.

Hopefully the contract he signs is for being the starting PF for the Knicks, what more does he have to do to be in it?? the guy improves every year.

Thanks Slimpack =D

[Edited by - bluenorange on 12-27-2007 1:59 PM]

I don't have access to Larry Coon's site to provide official NBA language on this, it would be helpful.

We can go over. The issue will be how much will we be willing to go? We'll still be getting hit up for Lux Tax dollars by the time we have to pay Lee his Scrilla. And Lee will have his suitors if we decide not to give him/Lee accepts an extension before he hits the market.
Hopefully Isiah gets fired and the Knicks get either Derrick Rose, Michael Beasley, Donte Greene, OJ Mayo, or Eric Gordon and then the new GM sits with Lee and the other young players and tell them what's his plan, and of course also telling Lee he's starting.

Because as of right now, looks like Lee can't wait to hit the FA market.

some Knick fans accept mediocrity as excellence .... I don't!
Allanfan20
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12/27/2007  2:21 PM
Trueblue, let me add to this:

You have to have a certain number of years playing on the same team, I think 3 years, to be over the cap yet still resign your own player.

We only had Trevor Ariza for 2 years, therefore, he was an unrestricted free agent after his second year. He could have gone anywhere and signed whatever and the Magic couldn't have matched if he left them. Golden State made the mistake of not signing Arenas to a 3 year partial MLE deal when they drafted him. They just had him for 2 years though, so he was just able to leave and go to Washington.

Lee has been here for 3 years though, so the Knicks can match any offer, if Lee decides to become an unrestricted free agent.
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TrueBlue
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12/27/2007  2:56 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Trueblue, let me add to this:

You have to have a certain number of years playing on the same team, I think 3 years, to be over the cap yet still resign your own player.

We only had Trevor Ariza for 2 years, therefore, he was an unrestricted free agent after his second year. He could have gone anywhere and signed whatever and the Magic couldn't have matched if he left them. Golden State made the mistake of not signing Arenas to a 3 year partial MLE deal when they drafted him. They just had him for 2 years though, so he was just able to leave and go to Washington.

Lee has been here for 3 years though, so the Knicks can match any offer, if Lee decides to become an unrestricted free agent.

Yes and No great addition BTW Allanfan

A team could use any exception available to retain their FA's(MLE, VME, LLE and I'm not sure on this one but if available (possibly a TE)). Take for instance Miami giving Mourning a portion of the MLE to retain him when they were way over the cap.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
kam77
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12/27/2007  3:45 PM
The better question:

How much is Lee worth?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TheGame
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12/27/2007  4:46 PM
Posted by kam77:

The better question:

How much is Lee worth?

Depends on how his game looks next year but I would guess that the market for Lee would be around $7-$9 mill per season assuming he does not regress and continues to improve his jumper. He still does not play defense well enough or have any consistent post moves that would justify a $10+ mil offer but a desparate team might just make such an offer.
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majorleads
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12/27/2007  4:49 PM
Whatever the Knicks do, players value should always equal their contract. That way in the future if you need to make a trade, it is not difficult to move the player for equal or greater value. The problem with the Knicks is that pretty much every player on the team has value not equal to their contracts. That is why we get stuck making trades for players like Zach Randolph. It's an endless cycle of retread sh!t. In order to build a team, you need to have roster and salary cap flexibility in case the moves you make don't work out. Unfortunately for us, there isn't another Isiah Thomas out there who will take our negative value players off our hands like we did when we helped out Phoenix, Portland, Orlando, Toronto and San Antonio.

I would not give Lee anything more than 5 years 35 million.
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kam77
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12/27/2007  4:59 PM
TheGame and MajorLeads with some nice low offers. 7-9 mil sounds about right. Diaw got 9 mil. Verajeo wanted something in that range.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TrueBlue
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12/27/2007  5:02 PM
Posted by majorleads:

Whatever the Knicks do, players value should always equal their contract. That way in the future if you need to make a trade, it is not difficult to move the player for equal or greater value. The problem with the Knicks is that pretty much every player on the team has value not equal to their contracts. That is why we get stuck making trades for players like Zach Randolph. It's an endless cycle of retread sh!t. In order to build a team, you need to have roster and salary cap flexibility in case the moves you make don't work out. Unfortunately for us, there isn't another Isiah Thomas out there who will take our negative value players off our hands like we did when we helped out Phoenix, Portland, Orlando, Toronto and San Antonio.

I would not give Lee anything more than 5 years 35 million.


If he was on the market now that's his value. Unfortunately for us he'll have another yr to improve his game and increase his value. I say his jumper will improve some along with other parts of his game. Then when you factor other things like.....

He's a walking double double
What If he was starting
He's a big
He's a team player
He's all hustle all the time

Now his value is somewhere around 5yrs $50mil a yr later. If someone wants him and there will be a few suitors they'll be wiiling overpay. This means we'll be paying him a healthy salary to retain him, not in case he doesn't want to play here anymore. We'll know more in a yr.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 4:03 PM]
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FireIsiah
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12/27/2007  5:20 PM
Lee, if he was a starter would be a borderline all star every year possibly. He is a guy that if he played 35 minutes a game would be a 16-12 player with a very high FG% because he isnt selfish. Not really all star numbers but a very good player.
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VDesai
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12/27/2007  5:25 PM
6 yrs 48 mil. 8 mil on average, 5.5 mil in year, escalating 1 mil a year till year 6. Player option after year 3.
majorleads
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12/27/2007  6:55 PM
Posted by VDesai:

6 yrs 48 mil. 8 mil on average, 5.5 mil in year, escalating 1 mil a year till year 6. Player option after year 3.

Player option after year 3? No way. That makes it very difficult to assess his value if you need to move him if things don't work out, or doesn't fit in, or suddenly a player emerges that is better than him. Isiah has killed us with all of these player option contracts. They should have been TEAM options. Crawful, Chubby, Jeffries and James, those contracts are killers. But the latter 3 are bad players, you have to figure them being straight deals with no potential of opting out. Crawful could opt out, but thats only to get more guaranteed money in the long term. Can't see any GM giving that clown a long term deal averaging 10 mil per.

And 6 years is one too many unless it's for a star player. You can't move those types of contracts, and if he gets hurt, you're screwed for an awfully long time. Ideally a 4 year contract would be perfect with a TEAM option for a 5th. Thats all I'd do for Lee. He looks good at times because everyone else on our team sucks.
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arkrud
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12/27/2007  11:47 PM
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by VDesai:

6 yrs 48 mil. 8 mil on average, 5.5 mil in year, escalating 1 mil a year till year 6. Player option after year 3.

Player option after year 3? No way. That makes it very difficult to assess his value if you need to move him if things don't work out, or doesn't fit in, or suddenly a player emerges that is better than him. Isiah has killed us with all of these player option contracts. They should have been TEAM options. Crawful, Chubby, Jeffries and James, those contracts are killers. But the latter 3 are bad players, you have to figure them being straight deals with no potential of opting out. Crawful could opt out, but thats only to get more guaranteed money in the long term. Can't see any GM giving that clown a long term deal averaging 10 mil per.

And 6 years is one too many unless it's for a star player. You can't move those types of contracts, and if he gets hurt, you're screwed for an awfully long time. Ideally a 4 year contract would be perfect with a TEAM option for a 5th. Thats all I'd do for Lee. He looks good at times because everyone else on our team sucks.

So in other words you will not match.
Lee will get overpayed not because of any reasoning, but because this is NBA.
And if Knicks will not mutch he wil be gone.
Is this good thing or bad thing is to be seen.







[Edited by - arkrud on 12-28-2007 10:04 AM]
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12/28/2007  7:42 PM
Posted by blueNorange:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by blueNorange:


No!

You can always go over the cap no matter how far you are, to sign your own Free Agents or players due for extensions.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 12-27-2007 12:53 PM]
Phew, thanks man ... since last year I was living in fear that the Knicks wouldn't be able to re-sign Lee.

Hopefully the contract he signs is for being the starting PF for the Knicks, what more does he have to do to be in it?? the guy improves every year.

Thanks Slimpack =D

[Edited by - bluenorange on 12-27-2007 1:59 PM]

Well, if it came down to that' I'm sure the Knicks would part with a few others, before they let him go because of cap room.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Siar617
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12/28/2007  8:01 PM
lee will be traded before his rookie contract is up
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loweyecue
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12/28/2007  9:28 PM
If other teams value him enough to overpay for him, they can have him. I like Lee but I don't want us to overpay for him. He is still a sixth man and we have bigger problems at 1 thru 5 that we need to focus on. I am really not fussed with keeping Lee or anybody else on this team.
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