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What is left for a Knicks fan to do?
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islesfan
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12/16/2007  3:46 PM
With Knicks fans being at a point where they're chanting "Fire Isiah" even during Knicks wins, it's clear that this franchise has sunk to levels that before were unimaginable. I think Knicks fans are at a crossroads with this team but where do they go from here?

This is what I think the choices are for Knicks fans at this point:

1) Denial - Curl up into the fetal position and keep repeating to yourself that things are going to get better without any drastic changes being made. Isiah has done nothing over the last 4 years to make anybody think that he has any idea how to run a team.

2) Hope - Keep rooting for the Knicks to lose, in hopes that it will bring the drastic changes needed to get the team headed in the right direction. Of course you also have to hope that Dolan hires one of the numerous candidates who are more competent than Isiah, preferably someone with a proven track record.

3) Indifference - Continue to lose interest in the team and inevitably just stop watching the games, with the very real possibility that you may never regain the passion for this team that you once had.

4) Give up - Become so disgusted at the situation and so disinterested that you no longer consider yourself to be a Knicks fan.

I've been hopeful for changes for 4 years now but I'm starting to lean towards indifference and possibly giving up.

Where do you stand?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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Marv
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12/16/2007  3:52 PM
those all sound so dire.

how about a healthy balance of alcohol, sex, drug of choice and properly recognizing the holidays by reinflaming long-standing family feuds?
GoNyGoNyGo
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12/16/2007  4:56 PM
denial
crzymdups
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12/16/2007  5:23 PM
I'm rooting for a high lotto pick and a new coach/gm. in the mean time, what marv said.
¿ △ ?
BlueSeats
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12/16/2007  7:10 PM
I don't know what's left to do. In troubling times like these I tend to overeat and masturbate, but at this rate my wife will leave me.

I'm actually a good example why it's bad for the league to have a sucky major-market team. I always told myself I was a fan of the game first, and a fan of the Knicks second. But now I see that as my interest in the Knicks wanes, so does my interest in the rest of the league. I don't need to feel as on top of the opposition, and general headlines are depressing. With the bad teams I can't help but relate them to ours, and I feel terrible for their fan base. And the good teams make me jealous as hell.

So I cancelled my season tickets, stopped reading all the online articles, stopped buying LeaguePass, stopped buying Knicks merchandise, and I even watch fewer games on ESPN and TNT, which affects ratings and advertising dollars. Multiply that by the millions of fans like me and it's a big hit to several NBA outlets, not just the Knicks.

Now excuse me while I get a cookie and surf some porn...
BigC
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12/16/2007  7:13 PM
I recommend sky diving like Don Chaney twos days before he got fired by Isiah.
BigC's Knick blogs and Knicks highlights after every Knicks game http://fromthebaseline.com/
holfresh
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12/16/2007  8:10 PM
Posted by Marv:

those all sound so dire.

how about a healthy balance of alcohol, sex, drug of choice and properly recognizing the holidays by reinflaming long-standing family feuds?

3 down and can't wait for the holidays..

djsunyc
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12/16/2007  8:58 PM
David Stern talks, Jim Dolan won't listen on big decisions
Sunday, December 16th 2007, 4:00 AM

David Stern finally made some headway with Jim Dolan this past week, pushing the Garden CEO to settle with Anucha Browne Sanders.

Unfortunately for Stern, the NBA and thousands of Knicks fans who can't believe how awful things have gotten at the Garden, the answer appears to be not in the least.

Barring a 180-degree turn, Dolan will likely disregard Stern's recommendations when choosing Thomas' successor. But as depressing a thought as that is, it shouldn't come as a surprise.

According to league sources, the Stern-Dolan relationship was "horrific" only a few months ago. That stemmed from, among other things, Dolan trying to get a group of owners together to demand that the league be audited. With threats of lawsuits between the league and the Garden, Stern was described as equally "baffled" and "despondent" over Dolan's incompetency, the Knicks' continued free-fall and the on-going public-relations nightmare for the league and its flagship franchise.

"Stern only tolerates Dolan," a source said. "He doesn't respect him. He sees him as a guy who doesn't listen or care."

Dolan did finally listen to Stern when the commissioner advised him to settle the sexual harassment case about a week before the punitive damages phase was set to begin last Thursday. But with Dolan looking to exhaust all appeals, it took a series of talks before Stern's position was accepted and Dolan agreed to pay Browne Sanders $11.5 million.

"To say that Stern bullied Dolan is too strong," a league source said. "To say he ordered him to do it is too strong. To say he recommended is not strong enough. I think the way to say it is that Stern pushed Dolan to settle. He was very insistent."

But that looks to be a one-shot deal. One person who has had dealings with both men said this past week that Stern's influence, ultimately, "is as temporary as a blink of the eye."

Which is why the league, while elated that the case is finally over, isn't in a celebratory mood about what the future holds at the Garden.

"Dolan might take a meeting with Stern," said a source, looking ahead to when Thomas is fired and Dolan starts to look for a replacement. "But he's not going to do what Stern tells him he should do."

Stern would love to see his old friend and ex-Suns owner Jerry Colangelo hired to run the Knicks, and is expected to call Dolan and make that recommendation, just as he regularly pitches candidates for executive positions. He has done that in placing former NBA executives Rick Welts in Phoenix, Rod Thorn in New Jersey and Steve Mills with the Knicks.

But Stern already knows that Dolan is almost guaranteed to reject his bid to bring Colangelo to the Garden. Another potential candidate who would bring instant credibility, Indiana's outgoing CEO and president, Donnie Walsh, is also going to be pushed by league people. Both Walsh and Colangelo have confided to close friends that they would jump at the chance to run the Knicks, even if the job of cleaning up Thomas' mess could take as long as four years. But they also would not come to New York without being given total control of the basketball operations, and neither expects Dolan to agree to that demand.

So the NBA's victory this past week in getting Dolan to do what it wanted appears to be short-lived. The league fears that Dolan will replace Thomas with someone similar, who will simply follow Dolan's orders and will not be up to the challenge of turning around the team.

"For Stern, Dolan is a source of total frustration, more than any other owner in the league today," a source said. "Obviously, he doesn't get along with all of his owners. A guy like (Dallas owner Mark) Cuban is difficult to deal with, but at least he is committed to winning and does everything he can to make his franchise a success. But Dolan is a problem and he isn't going away."
Papabear
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12/16/2007  9:22 PM
Posted by islesfan:

With Knicks fans being at a point where they're chanting "Fire Isiah" even during Knicks wins, it's clear that this franchise has sunk to levels that before were unimaginable. I think Knicks fans are at a crossroads with this team but where do they go from here?

This is what I think the choices are for Knicks fans at this point:

1) Denial - Curl up into the fetal position and keep repeating to yourself that things are going to get better without any drastic changes being made. Isiah has done nothing over the last 4 years to make anybody think that he has any idea how to run a team.

2) Hope - Keep rooting for the Knicks to lose, in hopes that it will bring the drastic changes needed to get the team headed in the right direction. Of course you also have to hope that Dolan hires one of the numerous candidates who are more competent than Isiah, preferably someone with a proven track record.

3) Indifference - Continue to lose interest in the team and inevitably just stop watching the games, with the very real possibility that you may never regain the passion for this team that you once had.

4) Give up - Become so disgusted at the situation and so disinterested that you no longer consider yourself to be a Knicks fan.

I've been hopeful for changes for 4 years now but I'm starting to lean towards indifference and possibly giving up.

Where do you stand?

Papabear Says

For you it's number 4 good luck, best wishes.

Papabear

Papabear
Papabear
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12/16/2007  9:36 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
David Stern talks, Jim Dolan won't listen on big decisions
Sunday, December 16th 2007, 4:00 AM

David Stern finally made some headway with Jim Dolan this past week, pushing the Garden CEO to settle with Anucha Browne Sanders.

Unfortunately for Stern, the NBA and thousands of Knicks fans who can't believe how awful things have gotten at the Garden, the answer appears to be not in the least.

Barring a 180-degree turn, Dolan will likely disregard Stern's recommendations when choosing Thomas' successor. But as depressing a thought as that is, it shouldn't come as a surprise.

According to league sources, the Stern-Dolan relationship was "horrific" only a few months ago. That stemmed from, among other things, Dolan trying to get a group of owners together to demand that the league be audited. With threats of lawsuits between the league and the Garden, Stern was described as equally "baffled" and "despondent" over Dolan's incompetency, the Knicks' continued free-fall and the on-going public-relations nightmare for the league and its flagship franchise.

"Stern only tolerates Dolan," a source said. "He doesn't respect him. He sees him as a guy who doesn't listen or care."

Dolan did finally listen to Stern when the commissioner advised him to settle the sexual harassment case about a week before the punitive damages phase was set to begin last Thursday. But with Dolan looking to exhaust all appeals, it took a series of talks before Stern's position was accepted and Dolan agreed to pay Browne Sanders $11.5 million.

"To say that Stern bullied Dolan is too strong," a league source said. "To say he ordered him to do it is too strong. To say he recommended is not strong enough. I think the way to say it is that Stern pushed Dolan to settle. He was very insistent."

But that looks to be a one-shot deal. One person who has had dealings with both men said this past week that Stern's influence, ultimately, "is as temporary as a blink of the eye."

Which is why the league, while elated that the case is finally over, isn't in a celebratory mood about what the future holds at the Garden.

"Dolan might take a meeting with Stern," said a source, looking ahead to when Thomas is fired and Dolan starts to look for a replacement. "But he's not going to do what Stern tells him he should do."

Stern would love to see his old friend and ex-Suns owner Jerry Colangelo hired to run the Knicks, and is expected to call Dolan and make that recommendation, just as he regularly pitches candidates for executive positions. He has done that in placing former NBA executives Rick Welts in Phoenix, Rod Thorn in New Jersey and Steve Mills with the Knicks.

But Stern already knows that Dolan is almost guaranteed to reject his bid to bring Colangelo to the Garden. Another potential candidate who would bring instant credibility, Indiana's outgoing CEO and president, Donnie Walsh, is also going to be pushed by league people. Both Walsh and Colangelo have confided to close friends that they would jump at the chance to run the Knicks, even if the job of cleaning up Thomas' mess could take as long as four years. But they also would not come to New York without being given total control of the basketball operations, and neither expects Dolan to agree to that demand.

So the NBA's victory this past week in getting Dolan to do what it wanted appears to be short-lived. The league fears that Dolan will replace Thomas with someone similar, who will simply follow Dolan's orders and will not be up to the challenge of turning around the team.

"For Stern, Dolan is a source of total frustration, more than any other owner in the league today," a source said. "Obviously, he doesn't get along with all of his owners. A guy like (Dallas owner Mark) Cuban is difficult to deal with, but at least he is committed to winning and does everything he can to make his franchise a success. But Dolan is a problem and he isn't going away."

Papabear Says

Sterns cost us maybe a championship!!! Suspending Our best players during the off the bench by 2 feet.\
Yet he forgave the refs for gambling. I bet you that if Michael Jordan would he walked off the bench by 2 or 3 feet and a championship trip to the title was in the wings he would have flip flop. Dolan never forgave Sterns for what he did to our Knicks that season.
Sterns never liked the Knicks and Dolan needs to tell Stern that when he gets his house in order then come see him.
As far as Mark Cuban and some of those other teams who tank thier season just to get that #1 or #2 pick is cheating but take a look at baseball??? I guess the Knicks are worse than that.

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 12-16-2007 9:40 PM]

[Edited by - Papabear on 12-16-2007 9:41 PM]
Papabear
arkrud
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12/16/2007  11:49 PM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by djsunyc:
David Stern talks, Jim Dolan won't listen on big decisions
Sunday, December 16th 2007, 4:00 AM

David Stern finally made some headway with Jim Dolan this past week, pushing the Garden CEO to settle with Anucha Browne Sanders.

Unfortunately for Stern, the NBA and thousands of Knicks fans who can't believe how awful things have gotten at the Garden, the answer appears to be not in the least.

Barring a 180-degree turn, Dolan will likely disregard Stern's recommendations when choosing Thomas' successor. But as depressing a thought as that is, it shouldn't come as a surprise.

According to league sources, the Stern-Dolan relationship was "horrific" only a few months ago. That stemmed from, among other things, Dolan trying to get a group of owners together to demand that the league be audited. With threats of lawsuits between the league and the Garden, Stern was described as equally "baffled" and "despondent" over Dolan's incompetency, the Knicks' continued free-fall and the on-going public-relations nightmare for the league and its flagship franchise.

"Stern only tolerates Dolan," a source said. "He doesn't respect him. He sees him as a guy who doesn't listen or care."

Dolan did finally listen to Stern when the commissioner advised him to settle the sexual harassment case about a week before the punitive damages phase was set to begin last Thursday. But with Dolan looking to exhaust all appeals, it took a series of talks before Stern's position was accepted and Dolan agreed to pay Browne Sanders $11.5 million.

"To say that Stern bullied Dolan is too strong," a league source said. "To say he ordered him to do it is too strong. To say he recommended is not strong enough. I think the way to say it is that Stern pushed Dolan to settle. He was very insistent."

But that looks to be a one-shot deal. One person who has had dealings with both men said this past week that Stern's influence, ultimately, "is as temporary as a blink of the eye."

Which is why the league, while elated that the case is finally over, isn't in a celebratory mood about what the future holds at the Garden.

"Dolan might take a meeting with Stern," said a source, looking ahead to when Thomas is fired and Dolan starts to look for a replacement. "But he's not going to do what Stern tells him he should do."

Stern would love to see his old friend and ex-Suns owner Jerry Colangelo hired to run the Knicks, and is expected to call Dolan and make that recommendation, just as he regularly pitches candidates for executive positions. He has done that in placing former NBA executives Rick Welts in Phoenix, Rod Thorn in New Jersey and Steve Mills with the Knicks.

But Stern already knows that Dolan is almost guaranteed to reject his bid to bring Colangelo to the Garden. Another potential candidate who would bring instant credibility, Indiana's outgoing CEO and president, Donnie Walsh, is also going to be pushed by league people. Both Walsh and Colangelo have confided to close friends that they would jump at the chance to run the Knicks, even if the job of cleaning up Thomas' mess could take as long as four years. But they also would not come to New York without being given total control of the basketball operations, and neither expects Dolan to agree to that demand.

So the NBA's victory this past week in getting Dolan to do what it wanted appears to be short-lived. The league fears that Dolan will replace Thomas with someone similar, who will simply follow Dolan's orders and will not be up to the challenge of turning around the team.

"For Stern, Dolan is a source of total frustration, more than any other owner in the league today," a source said. "Obviously, he doesn't get along with all of his owners. A guy like (Dallas owner Mark) Cuban is difficult to deal with, but at least he is committed to winning and does everything he can to make his franchise a success. But Dolan is a problem and he isn't going away."

Papabear Says

Sterns cost us maybe a championship!!! Suspending Our best players during the off the bench by 2 feet.\
Yet he forgave the refs for gambling. I bet you that if Michael Jordan would he walked off the bench by 2 or 3 feet and a championship trip to the title was in the wings he would have flip flop. Dolan never forgave Sterns for what he did to our Knicks that season.
Sterns never liked the Knicks and Dolan needs to tell Stern that when he gets his house in order then come see him.
As far as Mark Cuban and some of those other teams who tank thier season just to get that #1 or #2 pick is cheating but take a look at baseball??? I guess the Knicks are worse than that.

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 12-16-2007 9:40 PM]

[Edited by - Papabear on 12-16-2007 9:41 PM]

You right. Knicks are worse than that...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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12/17/2007  12:09 AM
indifference w/a glimmer of hope that it might one day turn around for the better.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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12/17/2007  1:03 AM
Posted by islesfan:

With Knicks fans being at a point where they're chanting "Fire Isiah" even during Knicks wins, it's clear that this franchise has sunk to levels that before were unimaginable. I think Knicks fans are at a crossroads with this team but where do they go from here?

This is what I think the choices are for Knicks fans at this point:

1) Denial - Curl up into the fetal position and keep repeating to yourself that things are going to get better without any drastic changes being made. Isiah has done nothing over the last 4 years to make anybody think that he has any idea how to run a team.

2) Hope - Keep rooting for the Knicks to lose, in hopes that it will bring the drastic changes needed to get the team headed in the right direction. Of course you also have to hope that Dolan hires one of the numerous candidates who are more competent than Isiah, preferably someone with a proven track record.

3) Indifference - Continue to lose interest in the team and inevitably just stop watching the games, with the very real possibility that you may never regain the passion for this team that you once had.

4) Give up - Become so disgusted at the situation and so disinterested that you no longer consider yourself to be a Knicks fan.

I've been hopeful for changes for 4 years now but I'm starting to lean towards indifference and possibly giving up.

Where do you stand?

Isle- I'll give you one-

5) stop posting thread posts longer than 3 sentences. Many people like me who have grown apathetic can't invest the mental strength to read posts like yours.
subzero0
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12/17/2007  10:08 AM
In general the fetal position is underrated.
Marv
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12/17/2007  10:39 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I don't know what's left to do. In troubling times like these I tend to overeat and masturbate, but at this rate my wife will leave me.

An old man goes to the doctor and says "Dr., I don't know what's wrong with me. My dick is orange." The Dr. tells him to pull down his pants and let him take a look. He has no idea what is wrong so he asks the guy if he has recently painted anything orange. The old man said "No." The Dr. thinks for a minute and then asks the guy if he has recently been exposed to any chemicals at work. The old man said "No, I'm retired." The Dr. then asks the guy if he could have been working with any chemicals in his garage. The old man replied "No Dr., I told you, I'm retired. All I do is sit around all day, watch pornos and eat Cheetos..."


What is left for a Knicks fan to do?

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