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Suggestion--if we are not going to make value of the bench
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BRIGGS
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12/13/2007  12:28 AM
and we have no idea what they will yield--I will suggest trading some of them in small deals. There are players around the league who don't get the burn but should--happens every year to a number of players

My two basic suggestions

Randolph Morris and a 2nd round pick to Charlotte for Walter Hermann
Renaldo Balkman and Mardy Collins for Hakim Warick Terrence Kinsey and a Memphis 2008 2nd round pick
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Allanfan20
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12/13/2007  12:34 AM
Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.
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BRIGGS
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12/13/2007  12:48 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.

We need some guys who can play some basketball. Right now Curry has lowered his value to a point where it would be in the Knicks best interests to have him lose some weight/come back and let him get back to the form he was in last year. Hermann at 6-9 Kinsey @ 6-6 alone[without warrick] would be attractive additions. You could slide Hermann into the starting 3 and Kinsey into the 1-2 with Jamal as a 1-2. I would say start Lee at C right now

i.e
9 man rotation
C-Lee
F Randolph
F Hermann
G Kinsey
G Crawford

C Curry
F Warrick
G Jones
G Marbury

I don't think it's necessary to look into major trades--they are not favorable right now. But right now I would say a couple of small moves and a line up change with an emphasis on some more length offense and speed in the first unit would make a lot of sense right now. IF we stay pat--we'll we lost to Seattle and Philidelphia at home. We need some lightning in a bottle.
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BigSm00th
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12/13/2007  1:51 AM
i like how Q is nowhere to be found, like the way it should be.

i love herrman, and he is expendable now that charlotte has a better and younger and cheaper version of him in jared dudley.

i like the second move too, kinsey and warrick complement this team a lot better than balkman and collins, this is coming from a guy with a balkman jersey, but kinsey and warrick would help a LOT.

briggs for gm, i've been saying it since like 2002
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TMS
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12/13/2007  4:30 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.

exactly... if we're gonna trade the kids it needs to be part of a large package where we're getting back a player who may be able to make some sort of impact... trading young unproven talent for young unproven talent doesn't accomplish much... anyway, i think Balkman's as good as Warrick if not better right now... & Terence Kinsey was an undrafted FA wasn't he?

& why bother trading Morris & a 2nd round pick for Walter Hermann, a guy who wasn't even drafted out of college in '01 & is already 28 years old? the guy can't even get any burn on a crappy team like the Grizzlies... not trying to be insulting BRIGGS, but that trade idea makes no sense... u can draft guys like Terence Kinsey & Walter Hermann in the 2nd round or wait to sign undrafted talent during Summer Leagues for the veteran's minimum.
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franco12
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12/13/2007  7:46 AM
also- this squad isn't one or two minor moves away from the play offs- we're heading to last place for a reason- the team is full of garbage.

it needs to be taken out back, and shot.

let's start over and start making moves for 3 - 5 years out. nothing, unless its firing isiah, is a good move right now for this group.
VDesai
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12/13/2007  9:07 AM
Herrmann and Warrick would essentially block each other. I don't understand how this helps.

Warrick, however, under the right circumstances, could really thrive.
BRIGGS
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12/13/2007  9:35 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.

exactly... if we're gonna trade the kids it needs to be part of a large package where we're getting back a player who may be able to make some sort of impact... trading young unproven talent for young unproven talent doesn't accomplish much... anyway, i think Balkman's as good as Warrick if not better right now... & Terence Kinsey was an undrafted FA wasn't he?

& why bother trading Morris & a 2nd round pick for Walter Hermann, a guy who wasn't even drafted out of college in '01 & is already 28 years old? the guy can't even get any burn on a crappy team like the Grizzlies... not trying to be insulting BRIGGS, but that trade idea makes no sense... u can draft guys like Terence Kinsey & Walter Hermann in the 2nd round or wait to sign undrafted talent during Summer Leagues for the veteran's minimum.

Walter Hermann is from Argentina and he played seriously well last year as did Kinsey when given a chance. What am I giving up in both trades anyway? Nothing. I don't want IT to do some kind of crazy big move--that's done. If were not going to play these guys--I want to change things up. We have Chandler on the bench and Jefferies signe for 5 years--so IMHO--Balkman is expendable. What exactly am I giving up--no lottery picks. What Im looking at is a subtle change. I don't think in any case that we can just stand pat. I don't see Lebron James Greg Oden or Dwight Howard in the draft.
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nyk4ever
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12/13/2007  9:42 AM
Hey Briggs, this probably isn't the thread for it but since you mentioned the draft in your last post, I'll ask anyways....

I'm curious what you think of the Big3 Freshman Guards right now. Who do you like better from the Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo group? Personally, I'm a huge Derrick Rose guy, feel like he's got all the right attributes(when you talk about leadership, length, ball handling, distribution, defenense, his J is a little questionable) to be a very successful NBA PG. Anyways, that's just me, whats your take on those 3?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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12/13/2007  10:08 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Hey Briggs, this probably isn't the thread for it but since you mentioned the draft in your last post, I'll ask anyways....

I'm curious what you think of the Big3 Freshman Guards right now. Who do you like better from the Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo group? Personally, I'm a huge Derrick Rose guy, feel like he's got all the right attributes(when you talk about leadership, length, ball handling, distribution, defenense, his J is a little questionable) to be a very successful NBA PG. Anyways, that's just me, whats your take on those 3?


I would pick Derrick Rose with pick 1 from what I have seen although I have NOT seen that big C from TAM play yet. Eric Gordon is awesome--he's better than Rose right now but I would not be able to pass up the incredible physical abilities of Rose.
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nyk4ever
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12/13/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Hey Briggs, this probably isn't the thread for it but since you mentioned the draft in your last post, I'll ask anyways....

I'm curious what you think of the Big3 Freshman Guards right now. Who do you like better from the Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo group? Personally, I'm a huge Derrick Rose guy, feel like he's got all the right attributes(when you talk about leadership, length, ball handling, distribution, defenense, his J is a little questionable) to be a very successful NBA PG. Anyways, that's just me, whats your take on those 3?


I would pick Derrick Rose with pick 1 from what I have seen although I have NOT seen that big C from TAM play yet. Eric Gordon is awesome--he's better than Rose right now but I would not be able to pass up the incredible physical abilities of Rose.

Awesome, we're in agreement on Rose, that's for sure. I don't want to hijack your thread any further.

Hermann played very well at the end of last year when he was given playing time and I'm curios why Charlotte just basically gave up on him, he's not getting any playing time this year, Jared Dudley is stealing alot his minutes at the SF/PF spots. Personally, I'd rather acquire Jared Dudley, but I will gladly take Herrmann as well. You're right, it shouldn't take too much to get him and these are the kinds of trades that as a team that needs to rebuild we need to make.

We need to start acquiring players like this, just as you said, guys with value but aren't getting the playing time they deserve. Personally I think Francisco Garcia, Shelden Williams, Josh Childress, and Ryan Gomes(or Craig Smith) are a few other candidates that we could kind of buy low on.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-13-2007 10:25 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
tkf
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12/13/2007  10:31 AM
Briggs, I agree with you 100% but unless that person comming to NY makes a gajillion dollars, he is not going to start over zach and curry. You know the motto around here....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Panos
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12/13/2007  12:11 PM
Posted by tkf:

Briggs, I agree with you 100% but unless that person comming to NY makes a gajillion dollars, he is not going to start over zach and curry. You know the motto around here....

It ain't your money?
Well, anyway, that's Misterearl's motto.
TMS
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12/13/2007  4:37 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.

exactly... if we're gonna trade the kids it needs to be part of a large package where we're getting back a player who may be able to make some sort of impact... trading young unproven talent for young unproven talent doesn't accomplish much... anyway, i think Balkman's as good as Warrick if not better right now... & Terence Kinsey was an undrafted FA wasn't he?

& why bother trading Morris & a 2nd round pick for Walter Hermann, a guy who wasn't even drafted out of college in '01 & is already 28 years old? the guy can't even get any burn on a crappy team like the Grizzlies... not trying to be insulting BRIGGS, but that trade idea makes no sense... u can draft guys like Terence Kinsey & Walter Hermann in the 2nd round or wait to sign undrafted talent during Summer Leagues for the veteran's minimum.

Walter Hermann is from Argentina and he played seriously well last year as did Kinsey when given a chance. What am I giving up in both trades anyway? Nothing. I don't want IT to do some kind of crazy big move--that's done. If were not going to play these guys--I want to change things up. We have Chandler on the bench and Jefferies signe for 5 years--so IMHO--Balkman is expendable. What exactly am I giving up--no lottery picks. What Im looking at is a subtle change. I don't think in any case that we can just stand pat. I don't see Lebron James Greg Oden or Dwight Howard in the draft.

doesn't make a difference if u don't see any Lebron, Odens or Howards in the draft... it's a lateral move at best... we're not going to play those guys either... what changes? Warrick will do the same things Balkman does pretty much... Hermann isn't gonna get any burn behind Zach & Lee... same w/Kinsey behind Marbury, Jamal, Jones & Nate... i think we'd be much better off packaging all that talent in 1 deal to get a player who might actually have a chance to start on this team.
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playa2
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12/13/2007  5:40 PM
The guy who the knicks draft in the 1st rd must be able to ball of course, but he should not be a follower but a leader regardless of his age.


Lee along with chandler and balkman need to play with a potential superstar who raises the bar on effort on the court.

This is our problem ,the highest paid guys don't bring it every night and were setting bad exampless for the young kids.

What ever position we draft "THE GUY MUST BE A LEADER
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TMS
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12/13/2007  5:47 PM
totally agree... we need a leader in a BAD way.
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BigSm00th
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12/13/2007  6:08 PM
and isiah's gotta go of course, the entire culture of the team must be changed, but if its a leader i like what derreck rose does. i also like, as hard as it is for even me to believe, oj mayo. guy brings it on the defensive end, scores, and has a ton of confidence. i'd prefer rose, then mayo or beasley, but who knows how the season will play out. i want to see all these guys in the tourny.
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BRIGGS
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12/13/2007  6:12 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Warrick wont be getting any time here either. Curry and/or Randolf need to go.

exactly... if we're gonna trade the kids it needs to be part of a large package where we're getting back a player who may be able to make some sort of impact... trading young unproven talent for young unproven talent doesn't accomplish much... anyway, i think Balkman's as good as Warrick if not better right now... & Terence Kinsey was an undrafted FA wasn't he?

& why bother trading Morris & a 2nd round pick for Walter Hermann, a guy who wasn't even drafted out of college in '01 & is already 28 years old? the guy can't even get any burn on a crappy team like the Grizzlies... not trying to be insulting BRIGGS, but that trade idea makes no sense... u can draft guys like Terence Kinsey & Walter Hermann in the 2nd round or wait to sign undrafted talent during Summer Leagues for the veteran's minimum.

Walter Hermann is from Argentina and he played seriously well last year as did Kinsey when given a chance. What am I giving up in both trades anyway? Nothing. I don't want IT to do some kind of crazy big move--that's done. If were not going to play these guys--I want to change things up. We have Chandler on the bench and Jefferies signe for 5 years--so IMHO--Balkman is expendable. What exactly am I giving up--no lottery picks. What Im looking at is a subtle change. I don't think in any case that we can just stand pat. I don't see Lebron James Greg Oden or Dwight Howard in the draft.

doesn't make a difference if u don't see any Lebron, Odens or Howards in the draft... it's a lateral move at best... we're not going to play those guys either... what changes? Warrick will do the same things Balkman does pretty much... Hermann isn't gonna get any burn behind Zach & Lee... same w/Kinsey behind Marbury, Jamal, Jones & Nate... i think we'd be much better off packaging all that talent in 1 deal to get a player who might actually have a chance to start on this team.

Hermann @ 6-9 can be slotted to start the 3 position right away. Kinsey can play combo guard at 6-6. The size/talent INCREASE along with some BALANCE will helpthe club immediately. Curry needs to play 24 minutes right now and on the side concentrate on losing 20 pounds so that NEXT year he can regain what he had the prior. Coming off the bench with Curry Hakim Starbury and Jones should ALLOW Curry o regain a princible scoring role going against secon line C's like it will help Marbury. The starting unit will have more speed size and taelnt and the balance should carry over to the D. here is no miracle here. We can st and sand--we need MORE than a lottery pick. I don't have confidence in their picking anyway. If IT was such a master draft picker and had a reasonable sense of a plan our main core would be Bynum Rudy Gay Josh Smith and Jordan Farmar.
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TMS
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12/13/2007  6:21 PM
i agree that we need more balance, but having Curry come off the bench will do nothing but decrease his trade value IMO... what needs to be done is to unload him or Zach, preferably both if u ask me, but i think 1 of them definitely has to go.

i just don't see what u seem to see in Hermann... he would not be starting on this team or even play that much of a significant role... hell, i'd rather take a flyer on Ron Artest w/that package of talent then go after role players that won't get any burn on this roster.
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BigSm00th
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12/13/2007  6:27 PM
i like the idea of having marbury, jones, balkman, lee, and z-bo as the starting 5 with crawford as the 6th man, nate and curry making up the rest of the 2nd unit. anyone can really go, though, there really are no KEEPERS on this roster. if lee could yield something good (kyle lowry? jordan farmar?) i'd make the deal
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