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Offense?... are these guys pros?
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JohnWallace44
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12/11/2007  5:38 PM
Let's say I'm playing in the park in a game against a team I know is better than mine and let's say nobody knows any plays. I'm playing with total scrubs.

What is the first move I make on offense?

Pick and friggin' roll.

Pick and friggin' roll every time down.

Right?

So why is it that our Knicks, when they are in an offensive funk and have players that can pick and roll, like Z-Bo, that they just stand around?

How does Curry end up at the 3-point line with the clock running out? How does Nate dribble out the clock?

Is our offense to iso either Craw, Nate or Jones at the top of the key and keep trying a different one each quarter?

These guys are retarded, I'm done supporting them. Put the team out on the floor that won the Summer League and see how far that gets us.

Just a sorry sorry bunch.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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Cosmic
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12/11/2007  5:45 PM
These guys are too stupid to run the pick n roll.

I say we're more suited for the pick n POP.


Go back in time if you will...to the glory days of Lenny Wilkens leading us to the playoffs. Recall what the bread and butter of that team's offense was? That's right. Marbury running the pick and pop with Doleac and Kurt Thomas.

Why on earth Isiah never tried it with Marbury and Frye and now Marbury and Zach I have absolutely no idea. Given the state of the team no single change will impact the overall disaster we are witnessing but......why not use a play that was once successful and could once again be successful?


Isiah's offense is this:

Dribble up, dump down to Curry or Zach, Watch.
Dribble up, do a little And-1 dribble trick, jack a shot.
Dribble up, do a little and-1 dribble trick, back up, stand around, dribble some more, drive blindly down the lane and whip the ball at a teammates face.


GENIUS, PURE GENIUS


Defense? LOL. There's nothing to discuss.

Isiah is a clown for constructing this team but he one-upped himself by coaching it WORSE than all the guys he fired for "not coaching my guys right".



http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
TrueBlue
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12/11/2007  5:50 PM
LB had Marbury and Channing running PNR almost to perfection during Channing's rookie yr.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
JohnWallace44
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12/11/2007  6:01 PM
I mean, it would be pathetic if the PNR was our offense, but I'm saying, if you have Z-Bo and you're completely lost on offense, how do you not do that?

Love the And-1 comment. Its great seeing Craw cross someone over 5 times and then back it out and start running something the Knicks call a "play" again.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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12/11/2007  6:29 PM
our offense is bad b/c we don't have guards that can run it and we don't have bigs that can improvise.

pick and roll is effective if you have the personnel. but i don't think we do.

i still say we pair off zach + marbury on one side, and crawford and curry on the other.

in reality, the OPTIMUM lineup would be this:

marbury, q, jeffries, lee, zach

with crawford, jones, balkman, eddy off the bench.

why? b/c we can pair up steph + zach without them having to step on each other's toes. and pair up jamal/eddy likewise.

isiah messed up the marbury acquisition. we had a top flight talent at the pg position that could run the pick and pop with HIGH efficiency...and he removed all players that we could do that with. it's a shame b/c we wasted steph's prime years.
JohnWallace44
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12/11/2007  6:40 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

our offense is bad b/c we don't have guards that can run it and we don't have bigs that can improvise.

pick and roll is effective if you have the personnel. but i don't think we do.

i still say we pair off zach + marbury on one side, and crawford and curry on the other.

in reality, the OPTIMUM lineup would be this:

marbury, q, jeffries, lee, zach

with crawford, jones, balkman, eddy off the bench.

why? b/c we can pair up steph + zach without them having to step on each other's toes. and pair up jamal/eddy likewise.

isiah messed up the marbury acquisition. we had a top flight talent at the pg position that could run the pick and pop with HIGH efficiency...and he removed all players that we could do that with. it's a shame b/c we wasted steph's prime years.


OK, before we throw a pitty party for Steph, he wanted Kurt gone, he wanted KVH gone and bragged about it afterwards.

Saying we don't have the team to run pick and roll is like saying you aren't coordinated enough to eat with a knife and fork. Should be pretty damn basic for someone who has played ball their whole life.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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12/11/2007  6:49 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by djsunyc:

our offense is bad b/c we don't have guards that can run it and we don't have bigs that can improvise.

pick and roll is effective if you have the personnel. but i don't think we do.

i still say we pair off zach + marbury on one side, and crawford and curry on the other.

in reality, the OPTIMUM lineup would be this:

marbury, q, jeffries, lee, zach

with crawford, jones, balkman, eddy off the bench.

why? b/c we can pair up steph + zach without them having to step on each other's toes. and pair up jamal/eddy likewise.

isiah messed up the marbury acquisition. we had a top flight talent at the pg position that could run the pick and pop with HIGH efficiency...and he removed all players that we could do that with. it's a shame b/c we wasted steph's prime years.


OK, before we throw a pitty party for Steph, he wanted Kurt gone, he wanted KVH gone and bragged about it afterwards.

Saying we don't have the team to run pick and roll is like saying you aren't coordinated enough to eat with a knife and fork. Should be pretty damn basic for someone who has played ball their whole life.

that's the thought but like someone mentioned before, do you know how many times zach is WIDE open when steph passes it back to him on the pick and pop and he does a fake allowing the defender to catch up to him?

marbury's a douche and he could've demanded alot of things, but it was isiah that obliged him. kurt and steph didn't like each other but damn if they didn't function on the court.

it's tough to watch our guards b/c you see so much indecision. crawford's talent level is off the charts. his skillset could make him an elite competitor...but he just doesn't know how to play the game. marbury, after 10+ years, still has issues when trying to run a play. he hesitates on passes. and that split second is the difference between a good shot and a bad one.

we really need to UPGRADE the guard position badly. i think that has to be 1A to moving zach or eddy at 1B.
martin
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12/11/2007  7:00 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i still say we pair off zach + marbury on one side, and crawford and curry on the other.

in reality, the OPTIMUM lineup would be this:

marbury, q, jeffries, lee, zach

with crawford, jones, balkman, eddy off the bench.

why? b/c we can pair up steph + zach without them having to step on each other's toes. and pair up jamal/eddy likewise.

agreed
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martin
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12/11/2007  7:09 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by djsunyc:

our offense is bad b/c we don't have guards that can run it and we don't have bigs that can improvise.

pick and roll is effective if you have the personnel. but i don't think we do.

i still say we pair off zach + marbury on one side, and crawford and curry on the other.

in reality, the OPTIMUM lineup would be this:

marbury, q, jeffries, lee, zach

with crawford, jones, balkman, eddy off the bench.

why? b/c we can pair up steph + zach without them having to step on each other's toes. and pair up jamal/eddy likewise.

isiah messed up the marbury acquisition. we had a top flight talent at the pg position that could run the pick and pop with HIGH efficiency...and he removed all players that we could do that with. it's a shame b/c we wasted steph's prime years.


OK, before we throw a pitty party for Steph, he wanted Kurt gone, he wanted KVH gone and bragged about it afterwards.

Saying we don't have the team to run pick and roll is like saying you aren't coordinated enough to eat with a knife and fork. Should be pretty damn basic for someone who has played ball their whole life.

that's the thought but like someone mentioned before, do you know how many times zach is WIDE open when steph passes it back to him on the pick and pop and he does a fake allowing the defender to catch up to him?

marbury's a douche and he could've demanded alot of things, but it was isiah that obliged him. kurt and steph didn't like each other but damn if they didn't function on the court.

do you know how many times a GAME I see Marbury play the pick-and-roll and Zach or Lee rolls to a WIDE OPEN SPOT and Marbury doesn't even see the guy? Like the bigs are waving their hands while Marb tries to navigate through 3 defenders to the basket?
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JohnWallace44
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12/11/2007  7:18 PM
I think they are trying to get Z-Bo to stop shooting from the outside or something. He looks like he's confused now rather than just taking it to people. Its a mess.

Marbs isn't coming back either in my opinion, so I don't even care about what he should or shouldn't have been doing for us anymore. Just tired of seeing the offense struggle for long periods when there are guys on the floor that can score easily if just two of them would work together.

In the 90's that's all teams would do, just have two guys run offense and the other three stand on the weak side. Seattle did that all day every day with Kemp and the Glove running offense and Nate M, Shrempf and Sleepy Sam Perkins just chilling on the other side.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
kam77
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12/11/2007  7:47 PM
These guys are retarded, I'm done supporting them. Put the team out on the floor that won the Summer League and see how far that gets us.

Put the COACH of the Summer League team on the sidelines and see how far that gets them. We have the worst coaching in the league right now. And it aint close.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
4949
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12/11/2007  8:04 PM
We simply have nothing strong in any' catagory. Plain and simple. They might be athletes, but fundamentally? Fo-gedda-bout-eet!

We have no truely dominating center.
We have no dominating play maker in a guard.
We have no shot blocker.
We have almost zero defense.
We get out rebounded.
We have no dominating scorer.
We have no consistency in anything.
We have no confidence.
We have no normally paid ball players.
Ect., ect., ect. I can go on and on.

I mean what do we have? You add all of this up and find that we have no' chemistry! And then on top of it, we don't have someone who knows how to coach and no one who knows how to put a management team together.

I mean 'what do we have'? Nothing' when you really think about it. The way things are going, how it's affecting our young guys, soon we won't even have a future anymore. It's already been tainted with losing ways. What we have is a puzzle, one that cannot be solved because it's all the wrong pieces!
I'll never trust this' team again.
nixluva
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12/11/2007  8:11 PM
Posted by kam77:
These guys are retarded, I'm done supporting them. Put the team out on the floor that won the Summer League and see how far that gets us.

Put the COACH of the Summer League team on the sidelines and see how far that gets them. We have the worst coaching in the league right now. And it aint close.
Agreed! I hate to say it, but Isiah has flat STUNK this year. Even a bad coach would get a little better performance from the same team just from a natural level of familiarity with each other. Isiah screwed that up, by changing the offense again and really not giving them a defensive scheme that will work for the big and plodding guys we have inside.

Hanners actually looked like he had some idea of what he was looking to do, Granted it was just Summer League, but Geez... They actually passed and moved and helped each other on D. It's really not that hard to get a group of guys to play basic BB 101, like JohnWallace44 said, pick and roll/pop is preschool stuff. Drive and kick? I mean it's been pathetic.
It would be one thing if we had never seen this team actually play well, but they've had games where they looked cohesive and played good ball. To me this is mostly about bad coaching.

You have to be able to stop the bleeding after a time out and get your team to run something, anything in a pro fashion. Isiah hasn't come close to doing that over this poor period play.
Bippity10
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12/12/2007  10:25 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by kam77:
These guys are retarded, I'm done supporting them. Put the team out on the floor that won the Summer League and see how far that gets us.

Put the COACH of the Summer League team on the sidelines and see how far that gets them. We have the worst coaching in the league right now. And it aint close.
Agreed! I hate to say it, but Isiah has flat STUNK this year. Even a bad coach would get a little better performance from the same team just from a natural level of familiarity with each other. Isiah screwed that up, by changing the offense again and really not giving them a defensive scheme that will work for the big and plodding guys we have inside.

This is Isiah's MO. He never has a plan. He changes his mind every other week. We focused our O around Marbs. Then changed it to Eddie. And now the focal point is a mix between Zach and Curry and Marbs and Craw. Find a focal point and build a plan around it. When will this happen?
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Offense?... are these guys pros?
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