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fan question: title or no title?
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djsunyc
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here's the question...as a FAN (and only as a fan - any sport), if you had a choice, would you rather: 1. win a championship, but stink for 5 years straight (no playoffs and not even be competetive) OR 2. be competetive for 6 straight years but fall short and don't win a title?
win championship then stink
be competetive but no titles
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TMS
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12/6/2007  11:20 PM
there is no high like experiencing your team winning it all... i'll trade 5 years of futility for 1 championship any day.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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GKFv2
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12/6/2007  11:21 PM
We are close to neither right now but I'd definitely go for the title. As you can see, it isn't that easy to win one.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
SupremeCommander
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12/6/2007  11:25 PM
No championship = failure

And, if the Knicks are going to stink, at least I can just commit to scouting NCAA hoops instead of questioning my belief in God when MJ, Hakeem, Duncan proverbially piss all over the franchise.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Erniecat
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12/6/2007  11:45 PM
this one is not even close. i would trade 5 straight 0-82 years for one title. it's all about winning a championship. anything less means you ended your season with a loss (assuming you made the playoffs).

i'm not that young, and i don't really remember the knicks winning a title. i was 4 for the first one, and 7 for the second.

i've seen the knicks be very competitive on a consistent basis. i had season tix from '92 to 2000.

but i've never seen them win a title.

they're the only one of the 4 teams i root for (yanks, giants, rangers are the others) who hasn't won a title at an age where i could appreciate it.
BasketballJones
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12/7/2007  12:02 AM
I would prefer my team not win a title. In fact, I'd prefer my team not make the playoffs. I want my team to suck or if they can't suck at least be mediocre.

Failure is more interesting than success.

However what I do expect, nay demand from my team is off-court drama. Sex, Lies and Videotape. Legal cases and hissy fits.

That's why I'm a Knicks fan.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 12-07-2007 00:17]
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TrueBlue
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12/7/2007  1:01 AM
I like Choice 1 because when you win a Championship you get that "Shiny Stuff" also if you never win then "You're like everyone else a Loser."
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
codeunknown
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12/7/2007  1:53 AM
I choose mystery choice #3: become younger and more athletic.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Bonn1997
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12/7/2007  7:23 AM
Do you have the Miami Heat and Shaq in mind with this poll?
Silverfuel
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12/7/2007  7:47 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Do you have the Miami Heat and Shaq in mind with this poll?
Florida Marlins
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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12/7/2007  9:16 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Do you have the Miami Heat and Shaq in mind with this poll?
Florida Marlins

HAHA! Good point. They're an even better example than the Heat. I voted for the championship, but reluctantly. What do you do in all those post-championship lousy seasons? Just watch taped re-runs of the championship season? Sounds crappy.
BlueSeats
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12/7/2007  9:41 AM
I'd take the 6 years of being contenders vs one shining moment among otherwise dreadful years.

For instance, I was quite proud of the product MSG provided throughout the '90s. We were a team of substance and I believed in them, thinking each year could be something big. I liked going into each season with high expectations and looked forward to our dramatic confrontations with teams like the Kenny Anderson Nets, Pacers, Heat, Bulls. So many games circled on the calendar that had meaning to me.

I had season tickets, went to many games (not all) but every playoff game. Taking friends to the Garden was a treat for all. The Knicks were a part of my household - my wife knew the names of the players and liked them (now when I watch games it represents nothing to her but one of my many disfunctions.)

Those were good times, the team brought joy and entertainment to my life. I was happy to talk trash and be the six man on the court from the stands with my cheers and chants.

Now, in contrast to that, we've had the Layden/Thomas years. In no way would I be "satisfied" if, because of fluke and key injuries to other teams, we were to sneak into the playoffs this year and catch lightning in a bottle and go all the way, only to have the bottom drop out again next year with injuries, bloated contracts and chaos spelling ongoing doom again for the future...no, I would not be satisfied with one flukey stretch inside of an era of disaster.

Give me hard work, integrtity, competitiveness, will, determination and wisdom and I'll be satisfied with close but no cigar.
MS
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12/7/2007  9:53 AM
We are exactly where we are with Layden no future and not a playoff team and good enough not to get a great pick.

Had Isiah drafted Bynum, held onto his picks and drafted a pg instead of balkman i would think a championship would be within reach in 2-3 years because we would be getting cap dollars, but instead he made the francis deal which turned into a max player that doesn't help you win. Where the knicks should be. You can say your thinking from what you see. But honeslty everyone here wanted to take Bynum or Granger, no one was on board with JJ1 and JJ2 for the most part, Steve Francis seemed like a bad deal at the time, so in reality could you possibly do worse than isiah probably not.......

Bynum/K. Thomas
Aldridge/Lee (Thomas, Gay, Foye, Roy all would have been great picks as well)
Balkman (Lottery selection number of quality players, noah would have been a nice pick)
Crawford
Marbury/Lowry

Marbury expires in 2, KT this year and the knicks are left with a great nucleus of talent. Wade and Lebron are leaving their teams there is no question, the east is week the knicks have the best young frontcourt in basketball and a nice rotation. And in reality that team can get you out of the east in two seasons with lebron or wade because of the defense around the rim or on the ball.

Why we will never win a championship? The Knicks have never used quality veterans the right way you rent and don't buy for a year. And once you get a good team you have guys like Grant Hill, Finely etc who would take less to win a championship which isn't really that big of a dream.
arkrud
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12/7/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'd take the 6 years of being contenders vs one shining moment among otherwise dreadful years.

For instance, I was quite proud of the product MSG provided throughout the '90s. We were a team of substance and I believed in them, thinking each year could be something big. I liked going into each season with high expectations and looked forward to our dramatic confrontations with teams like the Kenny Anderson Nets, Pacers, Heat, Bulls. So many games circled on the calendar that had meaning to me.

I had season tickets, went to many games (not all) but every playoff game. Taking friends to the Garden was a treat for all. The Knicks were a part of my household - my wife knew the names of the players and liked them (now when I watch games it represents nothing to her but one of my many disfunctions.)

Those were good times, the team brought joy and entertainment to my life. I was happy to talk trash and be the six man on the court from the stands with my cheers and chants.

Now, in contrast to that, we've had the Layden/Thomas years. In no way would I be "satisfied" if, because of fluke and key injuries to other teams, we were to sneak into the playoffs this year and catch lightning in a bottle and go all the way, only to have the bottom drop out again next year with injuries, bloated contracts and chaos spelling ongoing doom again for the future...no, I would not be satisfied with one flukey stretch inside of an era of disaster.

Give me hard work, integrtity, competitiveness, will, determination and wisdom and I'll be satisfied with close but no cigar.

I vote for the chip but I don't believe that team can get it from nowhere.
Suck, Win Chip, and suck again???
Yep, this can happened but this is aberration not a rule.
Team must built greatness first and only then organization will have a chance for the Chip.
So in fact both come together.

It's true that sometimes it comes when team used all available resources and has nothing to show after they get it.
But it is not a problem. You know what you paid for. Smart organizations are not scraping for the repeat in this situation but start building again from the bottom on bare culture.
If team falls short (like Knicks in 90) it's OK as soon as they gave it all. Just suck it up and start over.

The problem of the Knicks that the organization is into sport only from the first look, but in fact is entertainment show. Kind of wrestling with bbal face. And if somebody still looking for sport out there you are sadly mistaken. Just sit back with you popcorn and soda and enjoy the show.













"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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12/7/2007  10:07 AM
I don't like either scenario completely, but you've got to take the Title. The Knicks came so close in the 90's and if we had won and then stunk for 5 years we'd all still have a different view of the team from that period. They'd be remembered as champions. Over time we tend to forget the losing years and focus on the titles.
Solace
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12/7/2007  11:12 AM
In other words, would you rather be the Florida Marlins or the Cleveland Indians. Marlins have two championships, no contest.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
BlueSeats
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12/7/2007  11:23 AM
Would you rather eat steak and lobster every day at great local restaurants, or eat McDonalds everyday but once in your life go to the best Parisian restaurant?

Would you rather your sibling be a solid citizen to all, or to be a mass murderer who gets a visit from the Pope?

Would you rather have a dad who was there for you every day to teach you sports and help with your homework, or one who was rarely around but once sent you to Disney World?

It's one thing to offer your soul for a championship, but if you sell your soul for one you'll come out a loser.
VDesai
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12/7/2007  11:27 AM
Well I can't say that I've experience either. But I can say that I look back on being a fan competetive team that was perenially competetive for 5-8 seasons and I can say I look at that with reverence. And I think what the Marlins do to their franchise is pathetic and its no wonder they have no loyal fan base.

So the question isn't as simple as it seems.
EnySpree
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12/7/2007  11:37 AM
There is nothing like thowing rolls of toilet paper down the canyon of heros @ your favorite team.....

I actually totally clocked Darryl strawberry in the head with a roll one year they won....he was pissed for like 3 seconds then just shrugged it off smiled really big and just threw it back to the crowd! Thank God nobody in the parade saw me....the fans around me loved it though.

The Knicks winning it all would be the sweetest of all the local sports teams......believe that.
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VDesai
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12/7/2007  11:41 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

There is nothing like thowing rolls of toilet paper down the canyon of heros @ your favorite team.....

I actually totally clocked Darryl strawberry in the head with a roll one year they won....he was pissed for like 3 seconds then just shrugged it off smiled really big and just threw it back to the crowd! Thank God nobody in the parade saw me....the fans around me loved it though.

The Knicks winning it all would be the sweetest of all the local sports teams......believe that.

The Yanks winning was great, but they have been competetive for more than a dozen years and have won 4 titles in that span. Imagine after we won in 1996 if they traded Bernie Williams, Jeter, Rivera, Cone, Pettitte and O'Neill? That would essentially be what the Marlins did.
MS
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12/7/2007  11:59 AM
So are the Marlins supposed to just keep a team together and lose 30 million every year in order to win, that's just plain stupid. If they had a loyal fan base which they should of after their title i don't think you see them blow up the team....

Chances are they are competing again very soon because they have smart people in the organization getting the right propects. Whereas the knicks don't have one person on the job that has any sort of clue.....

We could have been good for a long time if they need how to dismantle a team here and wouldn't suffer like we are an expansion team. But instead of following the clear blueprint of making a trade like Ewing for Jermaine O'Neal the knicks were scared and traded him for three ****ty players. And then kept turning those players into worse contracts and repeating their mistakes......

The knicks have helped the Suns, Magic, Raptors, Blazers and Bulls all get rid of terrible contracts and be put in a position to rebuild and compete for long term success. IF the gm makes a bad decision like Paxson has done posters with no concept of how to build a team immedialty point out to the fact that this process doesn't work.

But when you give up capspace and young talent and take back dumb players, with no sense of history, hard work and dedication to each other you get Crawford, Marbury, Zach, Eddy and zero chance to improve or trade any of the,.
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