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Zach's rebounding reminds me of Oakley
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BigC
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11/26/2007  11:15 PM
Zach is monster on the boards. He really understands how to get position and box out his man. This is just proof that you don't have to have jumping ability to be a good rebounder. He really reminds me of Oakley in rebounding department. Now it time to learn how to take the charge.


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arkrud
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11/26/2007  11:33 PM
It's time to learn how to run back to defend your man... instead of arguing with the refs.

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Vmart
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11/26/2007  11:48 PM
Posted by arkrud:

It's time to learn how to run back to defend your man... instead of arguing with the refs.

Oakley did that too.
franco12
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11/27/2007  12:28 AM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by arkrud:

It's time to learn how to run back to defend your man... instead of arguing with the refs.

Oakley did that too.

he did a lot of that- alway's pissed me off.

But oakly was almost always on winning teams, which makes a big difference.
Vmart
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11/27/2007  12:38 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by arkrud:

It's time to learn how to run back to defend your man... instead of arguing with the refs.

Oakley did that too.

he did a lot of that- alway's pissed me off.

But oakly was almost always on winning teams, which makes a big difference.

So was zach he made the playoffs with the blazers. But the Blazers were a team of caos. For Oakley it helped that he played with Jordan and then Ewing. Finishing up with the up the raptors who had VC and T-Mac. To be honest with you when the Knicks got rid of him I was happy. He had become an unathletic player towards the end.
Siar617
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11/27/2007  3:11 AM
there are no jordans or ewings on this team
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SupremeCommander
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11/27/2007  3:47 AM
Maybe he rebounds like Oakley, maybe not. The major difference between the two is Oakley would have punched the opponent in the face, not his teammate.
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TMS
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11/27/2007  3:58 AM
Posted by BigC:

Zach is monster on the boards. He really understands how to get position and box out his man. This is just proof that you don't have to have jumping ability to be a good rebounder. He really reminds me of Oakley in rebounding department. Now it time to learn how to take the charge.

i agree... he's a monster on the boards... & he definitely needs to learn how to take a charge down low & cut down on his T/O's on offense.
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TheGame
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11/27/2007  5:46 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BigC:

Zach is monster on the boards. He really understands how to get position and box out his man. This is just proof that you don't have to have jumping ability to be a good rebounder. He really reminds me of Oakley in rebounding department. Now it time to learn how to take the charge.

i agree... he's a monster on the boards... & he definitely needs to learn how to take a charge down low & cut down on his T/O's on offense.

Yes, and improve his shot selection. I have seen some improve in his game from the beginning of the season. It is clear that IT has them working on the entry pass to Curry. Randolph is much better at it than he was at the beginning of the year. He is a huge upgrade over Frye and if he can stay out of trouble for the entire year, I think he will have some trade value, if we want to go in a different direction.
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EnySpree
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11/27/2007  6:08 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Maybe he rebounds like Oakley, maybe not. The major difference between the two is Oakley would have punched the opponent in the face, not his teammate.

He punched Ruben Patterson in the face so that doesn't count.
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EnySpree
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11/27/2007  6:33 AM
I definately see a lot of Oakley in Zach as far as rebounding. He mans up on his rebounds which is all oldschool. Nobody really does that anymore. Most rebounders base skill on athletic ability.

The holding of the ball and not running up the court is tolerable. When he holds the ball he is waiting for his teamates to run to a spot which they actually did well against Utah. Zach made the right passes which he also has been given a bad rap about.

His main fault is arguing. He gets into it with the refs and pouts......not enough to get T'ed up but he does take himself out of the play by wasting an extra 5 seconds sulking in the back court. He also gets into it with his teamates.....I think that's just the way he is. Dude is passionate and that's what the team has lacked.
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oohah
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11/27/2007  7:36 AM
I hates to tell you guys, but Randolph is a better rebounder than Oakley, I know that's ***scandalous*** to say, but it is true.

Randolph is such a land lubber that he makes today's Oakley look athletic, but he has some of the best rebounding technique I've ever seen. He isn't solely a rebounder like a young Oakley, he's got way more offensive skill.

I think it is mighty impressive that a guy who shoots as much as Randolph finds a way to get so many rebounds, especially offensive boards. And he is out there by himself. Oakley had Ewing alongside him that other teams had to concentrate on keeping off the boards. Randolph has to rebound against an entire front-line by himself with Curry.

Now Randolph has to play some D. Oakley has nothing to worry about in that department, Randolph will never be as good a defensive player.

oohah

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simrud
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11/27/2007  8:07 AM
First of all Oak did punch a teammate in the face, in Toronto, over money. Second of, while he was a great rebounder, his other major strength was his post defense.

Zack might easily be a better rebounder than Oak, but Oak was very far ahead in aspects of the defense. (It goes without saying I hope, that Zack is a way better offensive players.)
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
mythfaze
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11/27/2007  8:27 AM
Posted by simrud:

First of all Oak did punch a teammate in the face, in Toronto, over money. Second of, while he was a great rebounder, his other major strength was his post defense.

Zack might easily be a better rebounder than Oak, but Oak was very far ahead in aspects of the defense. (It goes without saying I hope, that Zack is a way better offensive players.)

...he isn't. Not even close in fact.

In Oaks first seven seasons in the league, he averaged over 10 rebounds per game six times.
In Randolph's first seven, he's averaged over 10 rpg three times, if you include this incomplete season.

In each of those seven seasons, over 3 of those rpg were offensive for Oak.
Again counting this incomplete season, Randolph has had over 3 offensive rpg three times, again including this incomplete season.

Career rpg for Oak: 10
Career rpg for Randolph: 7.8

Come on now...
mythfaze
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11/27/2007  8:34 AM
Plus, I thought he punched a player on another team (Clips?) and I thought it was over a woman. I never remember him punching another teammate over money, but I guess I can't say either way...
oohah
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11/27/2007  8:43 AM
...he isn't. Not even close in fact.

In Oaks first seven seasons in the league, he averaged over 10 rebounds per game six times.
In Randolph's first seven, he's averaged over 10 rpg three times, if you include this incomplete season.

In each of those seven seasons, over 3 of those rpg were offensive for Oak.
Again counting this incomplete season, Randolph has had over 3 offensive rpg three times, again including this incomplete season.

Career rpg for Oak: 10
Career rpg for Randolph: 7.8

Come on now...

Just comparing the numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

Oakley joined the bulls and didn't have to beat out anyone for a position. He became a rebounding demon right away because he was "The Rebounder" of the Bulls. That is what he did that nobody else did on the Bulls. That was pretty much his whole game and he was great at it.

Randolph on the other hand had to beat out Rasheed Wallace and some other dudes so it took him a couple of years to start putting up numbers.

Second, Randolph is an offensive player who has been the "Shot Taker" for 5 years now. This affects the number of rebounds you can get. If you look at Oakleys career, as his offensive game blossomed, his rebounding numbers started dipping down as well.

***

Just watching Randolph it is easy to see that he is a remarkable rebounder. That he gets his boards while taking 15-20 shots a game is even more remarkable.

I don't expect everyone to agree that Randolph rebounds better, but he is clearly in the same class as Oakley rebounding-wise, and clearly in a better class offensively.

oohah

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Nalod
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11/27/2007  8:59 AM
Randolph gets a lot of offensive rebounds from his own putbacks. One or two a game. Thats not a bad thing, but a bit empty stat.

Oak really grows in stature over time.

What made Oak so valuable was his complimanting What Ewing did best. The chemistry was there and they were hard workers.

We keep looking at indidual talents but they are lessoned by the lack of chemistry on this team. Zack with a theo ratcliff (in prime) type center would be an allstar. With Eddy both their defensive lapses are exposed.

Oaks intangables made him a great complimentry role player but his offense was very suspect and it hurt us at times.
Allanfan20
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11/27/2007  9:00 AM
Randolf = Better talent, better rebounder than Oakley.

Oakley = Better teammate better player than Randolf. I'd take Oakley in a complete heartbreat.
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mythfaze
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11/27/2007  9:08 AM
Randolph on the other hand had to beat out Rasheed Wallace and some other dudes so it took him a couple of years to start putting up numbers.

Fair enough - but even if you take the first couple years out of the sample Oak still winds up on top.
If you look at Oakleys career, as his offensive game blossomed, his rebounding numbers started dipping down as well.

Not true. His best rebounding and scoring years went (for the most part) hand in hand, and they were when he was younger.
Second, Randolph is an offensive player who has been the "Shot Taker" for 5 years now.

Good point, but that would only have a big impact on offensive rebounds then, no? And didn't he used to play an offensive game that was closer to the basket before coming to NY? I would think a big man playing around the basket would have more of a chance for offensive rebounds, even when taking more shots.
bitty41
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11/27/2007  9:15 AM
Big C you start off by making a good comparsion between Oakley and Zach's rebounding. But of course the usual pot shots have to be thrown in about Zach being a bad teammate, trouble maker, and his lacking of winning throughout his career etc. But getting back to the actual topic of the thread; I agree their rebounding is similar mostly due to the fact that both players play below the rim. They rely on their instincts and body to grab most of their boards. They both can be flat out tenacious on the boards.

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