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Zach shot too much last night in the third
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buddapaw
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11/15/2007  8:58 AM
In the middle part of the third quarter last night, Zach when went Portland on us, taking bad shot after bad shot becoming the black hole he is know for. That is when coach should step in and either take him out of the game or get on his ass. Needless to say alot of those missed shots turned in to points on the other end. There was no penetration by the guards and kick outs, Fred made a crucial turnover which is our main nemesis and Crawful continues to carry the ball, when will that dumb **** learn.
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VDesai
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11/15/2007  8:59 AM
There's no doubt about it. He should've come out for Lee at some point. Lee had been playing a good game.
Andrew
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11/15/2007  9:01 AM
I was kind of wondering about Lee's minutes as I went to sleep around the middle of the 3rd. 16 in the 1st half, 2 in the second?
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nixluva
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11/15/2007  9:18 AM
The thing is that he was taking too many jumpers, but then he started getting it in closer and as a team we missed a LOT of close shots. More than we would normally miss. I don't believe Lee would've been the answer, tho I do believe he should've gotten more PT. Isiah has been in a funk as much as the players have. All of this drama seems to be a distraction. Also the idea was to have Mardy and Balkman as part of the attempt to get more D and to solidify the running of the offense. Basically we're back to business as usual without those guys.

Zach needs to have Isiah smack him out of it when he goes into a zone like that. I'll give him a bit of a break since he hasn't been with the team practicing, but that has to be addressed. Still I felt more comfortable with Zach taking those shots than some of the other guys on the team. He just had an off night and he wasn't alone, so who was he supposed to pass it too? NO ONE was making any shots.
BlueSeats
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11/15/2007  11:01 AM
Posted by nixluva:

The thing is that he was taking too many jumpers, but then he started getting it in closer and as a team we missed a LOT of close shots. More than we would normally miss. I don't believe Lee would've been the answer, tho I do believe he should've gotten more PT. Isiah has been in a funk as much as the players have. All of this drama seems to be a distraction. Also the idea was to have Mardy and Balkman as part of the attempt to get more D and to solidify the running of the offense. Basically we're back to business as usual without those guys.

Zach needs to have Isiah smack him out of it when he goes into a zone like that. I'll give him a bit of a break since he hasn't been with the team practicing, but that has to be addressed. Still I felt more comfortable with Zach taking those shots than some of the other guys on the team. He just had an off night and he wasn't alone, so who was he supposed to pass it too? NO ONE was making any shots.

We played them close in the first half with Lee taking his jumpers and fell apart in the third with Zach taking his, but genius can't think of returning to what worked?

I don't know what it's gonna take for isiah to stop assigning PT based on salary. All the way back to LB we went on our 6 game win streak with Lee starting, and the rest of the time he's part of the bench who brings us back into games the starters have squandered. He's always been a distinct component of what little success we've shown since he got here. But isiah has his head buried in payroll stubs.
TrueBlue
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11/15/2007  11:12 AM
Posted by nixluva:

The thing is that he was taking too many jumpers, but then he started getting it in closer and as a team we missed a LOT of close shots. More than we would normally miss. I don't believe Lee would've been the answer, tho I do believe he should've gotten more PT. Isiah has been in a funk as much as the players have. All of this drama seems to be a distraction. Also the idea was to have Mardy and Balkman as part of the attempt to get more D and to solidify the running of the offense. Basically we're back to business as usual without those guys.

Zach needs to have Isiah smack him out of it when he goes into a zone like that. I'll give him a bit of a break since he hasn't been with the team practicing, but that has to be addressed. Still I felt more comfortable with Zach taking those shots than some of the other guys on the team. He just had an off night and he wasn't alone, so who was he supposed to pass it too? NO ONE was making any shots.


Nix why do you go hard defending the players I SAY UGH traded for and appear quick to sell out other players on the roster? Why doesn't Lee get more playing time based on effort alone? We still have enough firepower without Zach. We scored over 100pts the other day without Zach even with Lee shooting very subpar. We can find offense from other players that's where our DEPTH comes in right? It's not like we were playing the Spurs yesterday, the Clippers had no player to fear. Yesterday probably should have been the day for Lee to launch as many shots as possible considering Zach's situation and the team's overall. Lee worked on his jumper over the summer right isn't that what we were told? Put him position to showcase it and build confidence instead of crushing it. We had Jeffries taking 3ptrs in the 3rd qrt while Lee was on the bench and Jeffries just got back from injury. WTF do you think Lee is thinking while he watching jeffries brick away and fumble passes in the paint? This is why the senile didn't like the Zach trade because it would hinder overall player development. But as usual I SAY UGH approaches every game as "ALL-IN" and fails far more times than not. Let's develop the players early while there's still time and worry about wins accordingly.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 11-15-2007 10:13 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
djsunyc
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11/15/2007  11:57 AM
zach is averaging 19.4 and 14.6
team is now 2-5

where are the players that really make a difference? and why can't we get them?
nixluva
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11/15/2007  12:14 PM
DJ are you suggesting that the current record is a reflection of something that Zach is doing wrong or that he is somehow responsible? OR are you suggesting that his presence is a non factor?
I think like anyone else it's more than just what he does or doesn't do. It's how this team executes as a team. So far I really think we've seen this team underachieve so far. Thus I believe there will come a point when this team get's it together and plays more like they are expected to play.

Trueblue, I don't know what you're talking about. I happen to like ALL of the young players we drafted and I have been calling for them to get more PT. I happen to think Zach is a better player than Lee. Don't judge everything off of last night or what has happened in these last few games. Zach can at anytime explode for big points and Isiah rightly is gonna give him a chance to do that. Now last night things went south for the whole squad during the 3rd qtr. Let me tell you what has killed this team in the losses. TO's and poor shooting from Jamal, Steph and Q. If you look at the production we've gotten from those guys in the losses for the most part they haven't been good at all.

Lee wasn't really being aggressive offensively. Going 1-2 in 18 mins doesn't translate into Isiah believing he's gonna make shots when obviously that was the biggest problem last night. Zach and not Lee gives us the best chance of scoring in that situation. Zach, Jamal, Steph, Q & Jeffries were off last night and that's why we lost. Lee wasn't going to change that. Now if you want to suggest that we go with Chan over Jeffries i'm right there with you.
djsunyc
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11/15/2007  12:20 PM
Posted by nixluva:

DJ are you suggesting that the current record is a reflection of something that Zach is doing wrong or that he is somehow responsible? OR are you suggesting that his presence is a non factor?
I think like anyone else it's more than just what he does or doesn't do. It's how this team executes as a team. So far I really think we've seen this team underachieve so far. Thus I believe there will come a point when this team get's it together and plays more like they are expected to play.

Trueblue, I don't know what you're talking about. I happen to like ALL of the young players we drafted and I have been calling for them to get more PT. I happen to think Zach is a better player than Lee. Don't judge everything off of last night or what has happened in these last few games. Zach can at anytime explode for big points and Isiah rightly is gonna give him a chance to do that. Now last night things went south for the whole squad during the 3rd qtr. Let me tell you what has killed this team in the losses. TO's and poor shooting from Jamal, Steph and Q. If you look at the production we've gotten from those guys in the losses for the most part they haven't been good at all.

Lee wasn't really being aggressive offensively. Going 1-2 in 18 mins doesn't translate into Isiah believing he's gonna make shots when obviously that was the biggest problem last night. Zach and not Lee gives us the best chance of scoring in that situation. Zach, Jamal, Steph, Q & Jeffries were off last night and that's why we lost. Lee wasn't going to change that. Now if you want to suggest that we go with Chan over Jeffries i'm right there with you.

i'm suggesting that we assemble all these "#" players...

marbury 15/7
crawford 19/5
eddy 19/7
zach 19/14

where are the wins? the consistent play? the dictating of tempo?
TrueBlue
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11/15/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by nixluva:

DJ are you suggesting that the current record is a reflection of something that Zach is doing wrong or that he is somehow responsible? OR are you suggesting that his presence is a non factor?
I think like anyone else it's more than just what he does or doesn't do. It's how this team executes as a team. So far I really think we've seen this team underachieve so far. Thus I believe there will come a point when this team get's it together and plays more like they are expected to play.

Trueblue, I don't know what you're talking about. I happen to like ALL of the young players we drafted and I have been calling for them to get more PT. I happen to think Zach is a better player than Lee. Don't judge everything off of last night or what has happened in these last few games. Zach can at anytime explode for big points and Isiah rightly is gonna give him a chance to do that. Now last night things went south for the whole squad during the 3rd qtr. Let me tell you what has killed this team in the losses. TO's and poor shooting from Jamal, Steph and Q. If you look at the production we've gotten from those guys in the losses for the most part they haven't been good at all.

Lee wasn't really being aggressive offensively. Going 1-2 in 18 mins doesn't translate into Isiah believing he's gonna make shots when obviously that was the biggest problem last night. Zach and not Lee gives us the best chance of scoring in that situation. Zach, Jamal, Steph, Q & Jeffries were off last night and that's why we lost. Lee wasn't going to change that. Now if you want to suggest that we go with Chan over Jeffries i'm right there with you.


And I'll fire back and say Lee and not Jeffries gives us a better chance to win. Jeffries shouldn't have received any minutes yesterday. Jeffries played minutes in the 3rd qrt, the qrt in which we had a lead then it evaporated midway through. Lee should have got his 6min and 4 shot attempts. He's clearly a better player than Jeffries. You're trying to argue this as a Lee vs Zach and I'm arguing it from Lee vs Jeffries.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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11/15/2007  12:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by nixluva:

DJ are you suggesting that the current record is a reflection of something that Zach is doing wrong or that he is somehow responsible? OR are you suggesting that his presence is a non factor?
I think like anyone else it's more than just what he does or doesn't do. It's how this team executes as a team. So far I really think we've seen this team underachieve so far. Thus I believe there will come a point when this team get's it together and plays more like they are expected to play.

Trueblue, I don't know what you're talking about. I happen to like ALL of the young players we drafted and I have been calling for them to get more PT. I happen to think Zach is a better player than Lee. Don't judge everything off of last night or what has happened in these last few games. Zach can at anytime explode for big points and Isiah rightly is gonna give him a chance to do that. Now last night things went south for the whole squad during the 3rd qtr. Let me tell you what has killed this team in the losses. TO's and poor shooting from Jamal, Steph and Q. If you look at the production we've gotten from those guys in the losses for the most part they haven't been good at all.

Lee wasn't really being aggressive offensively. Going 1-2 in 18 mins doesn't translate into Isiah believing he's gonna make shots when obviously that was the biggest problem last night. Zach and not Lee gives us the best chance of scoring in that situation. Zach, Jamal, Steph, Q & Jeffries were off last night and that's why we lost. Lee wasn't going to change that. Now if you want to suggest that we go with Chan over Jeffries i'm right there with you.

i'm suggesting that we assemble all these "#" players...

marbury 15/7
crawford 19/5
eddy 19/7
zach 19/14

where are the wins? the consistent play? the dictating of tempo?
I think the individual stats you mention aren't the problem. It's the TO's and as you mention inconsistency. I do think tho that with all the crap that's been going on with injury, Zach's death in the family and the Steph thing, all happening during a west coast trip, is skewing the issue, cuz I don't believe that we're seeing the real Knicks right now. The regular season is like that. Due to any combination of factors teams get out of synch. The Bulls, Warriors, Heat, Pacers & Wiz are all teams that seems to be underachieving for various reasons. That doesn't mean that they'll never get back on course. Even the Raps and Nets have been up and down so far. We've had opportunities to win games and we've been killing ourselves more than it's been teams just flat out beating us. PHX is the only game that I felt was out of reach.

With a bit of time I fully expect this team to snap out of it and play better. I think too many of us are convinced that this team is actually this bad and won't play better. Do you feel that way? I think even you know that they're likely to turn this around at some point. While i'm disappointed with how they're playing. I also know that there's a LOT of season left and a lot can happen in that time.

BlueSeats
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11/15/2007  1:18 PM
Posted by nixluva:

With a bit of time I fully expect this team to snap out of it and play better. I think too many of us are convinced that this team is actually this bad and won't play better.


I don't think anyone considers 2-5 our ceiling, but nor is it abnormal for us. I think peole simply see it as part of an ongoing cycle that is ugly and scary. The team starts out sluggish and despondent, then doesn't handle adversity well, trouble between the coach and players foment, something shocking, like a brawl or an impending firing, is required to wake the team up to play to their mediocre potential, then injuries hit and again the team doesn't deal well with adversity.

In short the team only underacheives or peaks at normalcy, it never overachieves. Then in the offseason we have embarrassment and scandal, followed by a high-priced risky acquisition. Then the story repeats itself with a sad and despondent beginning.

Who needs it all for short peaks of mediocrity?

BTW, will this be the year Tim Thomas realizes his potential?
Bippity10
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11/15/2007  1:20 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by nixluva:

With a bit of time I fully expect this team to snap out of it and play better. I think too many of us are convinced that this team is actually this bad and won't play better.


I don't think anyone considers 2-5 our ceiling, but nor is it abnormal for us. I think peole simply see it as part of an ongoing cycle that is ugly and scary. The team starts out sluggish and despondent, then doesn't handle adversity well, trouble between the coach and players foment, something shocking, like a brawl or an impending firing, is required to wake the team up to play to their mediocre potential, then injuries hit and again the team doesn't deal well with adversity.

In short the team only underacheives or peaks at normalcy, it never overachieves. Then in the offseason we have embarrassment and scandal, followed by a high-priced risky acquisition. Then the story repeats itself with a sad and despondent beginning.

Who needs it all for short peaks of mediocrity?

BTW, will this be the year Tim Thomas realizes his potential?

And you don't like this?
I just hope that people will like me
bobs3304
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11/15/2007  1:22 PM
Zach is tied for 1st in rebounding with D12.

(Dwight Howard).

If he bumped his .411 FG% up to .500, his effeciency would look alot better on paper.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
King1
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11/15/2007  1:24 PM
Zach is a career 45% field goal shooter which is terrible for a post player. Since he is playing with Curry a lot he will shoot jumpers and he is shooting 41%. Dont forget the 3.2 turnovers a game that is killing us also. You cant win with Zach Randolph as the focal point Portland figured and traded him for nothing.
TMS
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11/15/2007  1:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

zach is averaging 19.4 and 14.6
team is now 2-5

where are the players that really make a difference? and why can't we get them?

stop hatin'... Isiah's got a plan... what that plan is is anyone's guess, but dammit, he's got one!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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11/15/2007  1:34 PM
Zach got to the line a lot last year and hit at a 80% clip. That really helped his shooting efficiency- which wasn't that terrible for an 23 PPG guy. What killed it a little was he needed the ball a lot to get those points.

But keep in mind when Zach first averaged 20 ppg he shot 48% and Portland had a more competetive team with more talent around him. Allowed him to be a more focused inside scorer. I think he can still be a focal point, but you do need some guys to take the pressure off so he can play in the post more.

He's not gonna shoot this badly all year and right now I don't think our offensive efficiency has truly been the main issue. It was last night, but it was not for the majority of our losses.
King1
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11/15/2007  1:39 PM
The last two years when he was the focal point Portland has been terrible but he get his numbers
bobs3304
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11/15/2007  1:39 PM
Posted by King1:

Zach is a career 45% field goal shooter which is terrible for a post player. Since he is playing with Curry a lot he will shoot jumpers and he is shooting 41%. Dont forget the 3.2 turnovers a game that is killing us also. You cant win with Zach Randolph as the focal point Portland figured and traded him for nothing.

Eh.

I don't love Zach, but he ain't the problem. He's not a cutup on the court, and doesnt kill chemistry as much as Marbury or Artest would.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
VDesai
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11/15/2007  1:42 PM
Posted by King1:

The last two years when he was the focal point Portland has been terrible but he get his numbers

Yeah but they weren't terrible just cause he was the focal point. They were terrible cause they were terrible. They had no talent.
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