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Re-tooling - This is what I'd like to see immediately
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Finestrg
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11/12/2007  4:30 PM
Scenario #1

Play Randolph Morris, Wilson Chandler and Mardy Collins to see exactly what you have with each before making any deals. Isiah should know - he sees these guys everyday in practice so he should have a good idea already. Can Morris provide the interior defense we so desperately need or is he indeed too slow afoot to have any real impact in the NBA? Can Chandler be the two-way contributor in the frontcourt that we need? Can Collins be the efficient defensive-minded, take-care-of-the-ball type of PG we're looking for? We'll never know anything unless these guys see some action...

Scenario #2

Trade Lee AND Balkman to the Kings for Ron Artest and Justin Williams.

Scenario #3

Trade Balkman and filler for Francisco Garcia and Justin Williams.

Scenario #4

Trade Randolph Morris for Justin Williams.

Scenario #5

Trade for Andris Biedrins or Hilton Armstrong if nothing can be worked out with the Kings.

Any thoughts????
AUTOADVERT
Cookdcokehop
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11/12/2007  4:34 PM
I would trade Lee before I trade Balkman. Why? Because we have a player that can do what Lee does in Zach Randolph. He can actually do Lee's job better. Trade Lee while his value is still high. Also trade Nate. Draft Derrick Rose if we suck that bad.
TMS
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11/12/2007  4:43 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

Scenario #1

Play Randolph Morris, Wilson Chandler and Mardy Collins to see exactly what you have with each before making any deals. Isiah should know - he sees these guys everyday in practice so he should have a good idea already. Can Morris provide the interior defense we so desperately need or is he indeed too slow afoot to have any real impact in the NBA? Can Chandler be the two-way contributor in the frontcourt that we need? Can Collins be the efficient defensive-minded, take-care-of-the-ball type of PG we're looking for? We'll never know anything unless these guys see some action...

Scenario #2

Trade Lee AND Balkman to the Kings for Ron Artest and Justin Williams.

Scenario #3

Trade Balkman and filler for Francisco Garcia and Justin Williams.

Scenario #4

Trade Randolph Morris for Justin Williams.

Scenario #5

Trade for Andris Biedrins or Hilton Armstrong if nothing can be worked out with the Kings.

Any thoughts????

the only scenario idea i liked is #1, but that's not realistic either cuz Isiah's not going to entrust his future on the shoulders of 2 rooks & a 1st year player... he's going to go down w/his vets & take his chances.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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11/12/2007  4:54 PM
The big problem with your scenario's is that they're missing the most important initial move:

Fire Isiah...
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
arkrud
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11/12/2007  5:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:

The big problem with your scenario's is that they're missing the most important initial move:

Fire Isiah...

There always is the logical sequence of events.
You cannot finish Iraq war before Bush term is over.
You cannot do anything with this roster before IT is gone.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Finestrg
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11/12/2007  6:01 PM
You know, the more I think about it, Francisco Garcia is a talent that could really flourish in NY. Always an excellent offensive player. At 6'7" has the height to play the 2 & 3 (and a good enough handle to see some duty at the point, believe it or not), can shoot real well from deep and off the dribble, can take it to the rim, good FT shooter - and the best part for us - the dude can actually play some defense. Has long arms, gets a lot of deflections and I've actually seen this guy on quite a few occasions step out on shooters deep on the perimeter and get blocks much in the same way Balkman does. That ability alone would be awesome for us when you think about our atrocious perimeter defense. Couple that with the smooth offensive game he has from the perimeter and the relief he could provide Curry and Randolph on the block...he really starts to sound interesting doesn't he??? Now the knock on this guy ever since Louisville has always been his overall lack of strength & the skinny frame. But at 6'7", 195 lb. (listed on Sac's Web site) I can't see that being an issue anymore. Only now, for whatever reason (well Artest hasn't played yet but they could be showcasing him because they have so many tweeners), has he been getting the playing time. 32.3 mpg, 47.8% FG%, 33.3% 3P-FG%, 4.3 RPG, 14.5 PPG. Not bad. And I think capable of much more. I've see him compared to Reggie Miller, but I see a little quieter offensive game, though still potent - picture Allan Houston with a little better handle and take to the basket with a little Balkman perimeter defense thrown in. And he's originally a Bronx guy...

By comparison to what we have -

Richardson - maybe not as strong and as good a rebounder as Q, but a much, much better perimeter shooter and FT shooter, with an infinitely better handle and take to the cup. Superior passing skills and court IQ.

Crawford - ditto above, vastly better perimeter shooter %-wise, a good 2" taller, smarter and a lot less flashy. Everytime I've seen him I don't think I've ever seen him force up a bad shot. Certainly nothing like some of the shots we've seen Crawford take...

Balkman - doesn't have Balkman's motor and relentless energy but a far superior overall talent. Not even close.


So the more I think about it, I think I might want him over Artest. Along with Justin Williams. The question is would you include Lee in this deal? I might... Garcia's got a lot of talent... I'd really have to think about this....

Any thoughts on Francisco Garcia and how he might fit in with the Knicks?
BRIGGS
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11/12/2007  6:12 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

You know, the more I think about it, Francisco Garcia is a talent that could really flourish in NY. Always an excellent offensive player. At 6\'7\" has the height to play the 2 & 3 (and a good enough handle to see some duty at the point, believe it or not), can shoot real well from deep and off the dribble, can take it to the rim, good FT shooter - and the best part for us - the dude can actually play some defense. Has long arms, gets a lot of deflections and I\'ve actually seen this guy on quite a few occasions step out on shooters deep on the perimeter and get blocks much in the same way Balkman does. That ability alone would be awesome for us when you think about our atrocious perimeter defense. Couple that with the smooth offensive game he has from the perimeter and the relief he could provide Curry and Randolph on the block...he really starts to sound interesting doesn\'t he??? Now the knock on this guy ever since Louisville has always been his overall lack of strength & the skinny frame. But at 6\'7\", 195 lb. (listed on Sac\'s Web site) I can\'t see that being an issue anymore. Only now, for whatever reason (well Artest hasn\'t played yet but they could be showcasing him because they have so many tweeners), has he been getting the playing time. 32.3 mpg, 47.8% FG%, 33.3% 3P-FG%, 4.3 RPG, 14.5 PPG. Not bad. And I think capable of much more. I\'ve see him compared to Reggie Miller, but I see a little quieter offensive game, though still potent - picture Allan Houston with a little better handle and take to the basket with a little Balkman perimeter defense thrown in. And he\'s originally a Bronx guy...

By comparison to what we have -

Richardson - maybe not as strong and as good a rebounder as Q, but a much, much better perimeter shooter and FT shooter, with an infinitely better handle and take to the cup. Superior passing skills and court IQ.

Crawford - ditto above, vastly better perimeter shooter %-wise, a good 2\" taller, smarter and a lot less flashy. Everytime I\'ve seen him I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen him force up a bad shot. Certainly nothing like some of the shots we\'ve seen Crawford take...

Balkman - doesn\'t have Balkman\'s motor and relentless energy but a far superior overall talent. Not even close.


So the more I think about it, I think I might want him over Artest. Along with Justin Williams. The question is would you include Lee in this deal? I might... Garcia\'s got a lot of talent... I\'d really have to think about this....

Any thoughts on Francisco Garcia and how he might fit in with the Knicks?

I wouldnt trade Garcia if Im the Kings. He\'s a building block. Would you trade him? I mean everything is for sale in this league and we would have to wave bye bye to David Lee for him and I would not do that. IF I traded David Lee I would only do it for a premium package player and while Garcia is a nice player--hes not a premium player--hes a nice player who has shown increased potnetial this year on a bad team. Justin Williams--I like him too but I think right now JW is a kick in for a trade.
RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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11/13/2007  12:54 AM
I don't think artest puts us over the top- don't know that it would be enough to get us to the play offs.

Immediately, we should see if we can trade curry, crawford- anyone with a longer contract. Play Chandler/Balk, sit q
joec32033
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11/13/2007  1:20 AM
I like the idea of getting Cisco, but only if the intention is to play him at the two.
~You can't run from who you are.~
bobs3304
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11/13/2007  1:32 AM
Re-tooling?

Haven't we done that already?

Deja-vu.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
franco12
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11/13/2007  6:58 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Re-tooling?

Haven't we done that already?

Deja-vu.
exactly!!
how many re-toolings and complete overhauls can one gm make in a five year period and still have his job.
dolan is addicted to isiah. he needs to get help.
Bonn1997
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11/13/2007  7:07 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Re-tooling?

Haven't we done that already?

Deja-vu.

Well put
King1
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11/13/2007  9:47 AM
no way you can trade Lee and Balkman for Artest the money doesnt match up. I agree you need to trade Lee but if you get rid of Steph then you have another hole that needs to be filled
djsunyc
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11/13/2007  9:58 AM
steph + balkman to sacto for bibby + artest (saves the kings alot of money)
eddy + malik to indy for jermaine
jeffries + nate for vlad rad

bibby, artest, vlad, zach, jermaine
with jamal, lee, MLE signing off the bench.
MS
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11/13/2007  10:09 AM
Ok no way you trade lee or balkman.

Step 1:
Curry, Nate, and a pick for Al Horford

Step 2
Wilson Chandler, Crawford, and Morris for Ron Artest

Step 3
Insert Mardy Collins and Balkman into the starting lineup.

Mardy Collins-Marbury
Ron Artest-Q
Renaldo Balkman-Jefferies
Randolf-Lee
Horford-Rose

We may average 85pts a night, but who cares there is defense, rebounding, heart and size
Finestrg
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11/13/2007  11:13 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Finestrg:

You know, the more I think about it, Francisco Garcia is a talent that could really flourish in NY. Always an excellent offensive player. At 6\'7\" has the height to play the 2 & 3 (and a good enough handle to see some duty at the point, believe it or not), can shoot real well from deep and off the dribble, can take it to the rim, good FT shooter - and the best part for us - the dude can actually play some defense. Has long arms, gets a lot of deflections and I\'ve actually seen this guy on quite a few occasions step out on shooters deep on the perimeter and get blocks much in the same way Balkman does. That ability alone would be awesome for us when you think about our atrocious perimeter defense. Couple that with the smooth offensive game he has from the perimeter and the relief he could provide Curry and Randolph on the block...he really starts to sound interesting doesn\'t he??? Now the knock on this guy ever since Louisville has always been his overall lack of strength & the skinny frame. But at 6\'7\", 195 lb. (listed on Sac\'s Web site) I can\'t see that being an issue anymore. Only now, for whatever reason (well Artest hasn\'t played yet but they could be showcasing him because they have so many tweeners), has he been getting the playing time. 32.3 mpg, 47.8% FG%, 33.3% 3P-FG%, 4.3 RPG, 14.5 PPG. Not bad. And I think capable of much more. I\'ve see him compared to Reggie Miller, but I see a little quieter offensive game, though still potent - picture Allan Houston with a little better handle and take to the basket with a little Balkman perimeter defense thrown in. And he\'s originally a Bronx guy...

By comparison to what we have -

Richardson - maybe not as strong and as good a rebounder as Q, but a much, much better perimeter shooter and FT shooter, with an infinitely better handle and take to the cup. Superior passing skills and court IQ.

Crawford - ditto above, vastly better perimeter shooter %-wise, a good 2\" taller, smarter and a lot less flashy. Everytime I\'ve seen him I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen him force up a bad shot. Certainly nothing like some of the shots we\'ve seen Crawford take...

Balkman - doesn\'t have Balkman\'s motor and relentless energy but a far superior overall talent. Not even close.


So the more I think about it, I think I might want him over Artest. Along with Justin Williams. The question is would you include Lee in this deal? I might... Garcia\'s got a lot of talent... I\'d really have to think about this....

Any thoughts on Francisco Garcia and how he might fit in with the Knicks?

I wouldnt trade Garcia if Im the Kings. He\'s a building block. Would you trade him? I mean everything is for sale in this league and we would have to wave bye bye to David Lee for him and I would not do that. IF I traded David Lee I would only do it for a premium package player and while Garcia is a nice player--hes not a premium player--hes a nice player who has shown increased potnetial this year on a bad team. Justin Williams--I like him too but I think right now JW is a kick in for a trade.

Yes, I think I might. Why not? Sacramento has enough wings and shooters/scorers with Artest, Abdur-Rahim, Kevin Martin, John Salmons and Quincy Douby. And they have nothing like David Lee on that roster (not many teams do). Kenny Thomas is the closest but he's always been a little on the small side. Lee's a tremendous rebounder, and a good 2" taller and about 6 years younger than Thomas. I would think Garcia might be expenable for them in the right deal. And we already know they like Lee from all the initial Artest to the Knicks talk a few months back. Plus, as someone else pointed out, the money works a lot better for a potential trade when we substitute Garcia for Artest.

And from our end, Lee's expendable now that we have Randolph. And Garcia would automatically become our most consistent outside threat plus, like I said earlier, he's got some potential on the defensive side of the ball. He's tall with the overall versitality to play 3 positions.

I hear ya as far as wanting to get the most bang for your buck if you're gonna deal Lee but this is a good, fair trade for both teams. Justin Williams (who averaged 11 & 11 with about 5.5 blocks per game his last year at Wyoming) has the potential to make up for the bulk of what Lee provided plus adding the interior shotblocking element that we've lacked for some time now.

A good, fair trade (trust me, I'm never gonna come on here and say let's go do a Mardy Collins for Shaq trade) for both teams. And for the record, I do believe we still need some re-tool here and it shouldn't stop until we start putting a winner on the floor.
JrZyHuStLa
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11/13/2007  11:17 AM
There's only 2 steps needed to improve the team, and guess what ? They require no additions of anyone, just subtractions. Simple mathematics.

Step 1: Buy out the bizarre Coney Island failure. He has truly embarrased New York.

Step 2: Fire the one and only kid to ever make it out of one of Southside Chicago's tougest neighborhoods.



Re-tooling - This is what I'd like to see immediately

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