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How Is Zach Randolph Any Different Than Walker, Shareef, OR Jamison???
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bobs3304
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11/7/2007  2:00 PM
OK. I'm sorry for making so many threads, I feel like 4949 being such a postpadder. This'll be my last thread for the week.




Anyway -

I don't see it. How is Zach any different than Antoine, or Rahim, or any other fake franchise player?

I mean he's 26 and not even an All-Star yet, that should be the 1st flag.


Even guys like Antawn Jamison put up big numbers like him (remember the 50 pt. game against Kobe?).

Walker was a beast for a few years in Boston, and look what happened.

And Shareef was a 20&10 guy for Vancouver and Atlanta for years. Talk about "empty" stats.


Z-Bo doesn't play defense, he's not terribly "athletic", and he's got a poor attitude toward the game, which is why he was traded.


I mean does anyone here really expect him to learn new tricks?


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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11/7/2007  2:15 PM
Those other guys were/are fairly good players and Zach's a fairly good player. Zach's definitely not a franchise player and he's not an all-star unless the east PF spot is very depleted. But he is an above average starting PF. There's nothing wrong with that. The fact that he's our BEST player is a problem, though.
VDesai
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11/7/2007  2:17 PM
Who the F cares about all star labels. Zach was playing with scrubs and lotto picks the last couple years. He's not gonna get any recognition for going 20-10 there.

Zach's different cause his are a bit b better than the guys you mention. And none of these guys were low post players the way Zach is.

Besides, what is your point. You can find 3 other players over the course of NBA history with similar stats that were on winning teams too.

Basketball-reference brings up the following as his top 5 comps for similar seasons at age 25:

1) Cliff Robinson
2) Jermaine O'Neal
3) Karl Malone
4) Mark Aguirre

But back to your guys, why exactly is this an argument? Did Shareef make Atlanta/Vancouver lose or was it lack of talent that he was playing with for years? Is Antwan Jamison really a losing player? Is he holding the Wizards back? They've been in the playoffs every year since he's been there and he's been a contributing piece. Don't get me started on Walker cause the comparison isn't close...he became a perimeter chucker who also thought he was a PG.

Zach is a guy who can score and rebound and on a good enough team he will help. He isn't exactly deterring our offense from being effective so far is he? last time I checked we were top 5 in the league in scoring through the 3 games he's been here.
Bonn1997
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11/7/2007  2:21 PM
Basketball-reference brings up the following as his top 5 comps for similar seasons at age 25:

1) Cliff Robinson
2) Jermaine O'Neal
3) Karl Malone
4) Mark Aguirre
That's a good enough reason to never again use basketball-reference's top 5 comparisons!
misterearl
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11/7/2007  2:23 PM
The Matrix (1)

Bonn - there is absolutely nothing about Zach Randolph that is a problem. Unless you are attempting to defend him.

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VDesai
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11/7/2007  2:24 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Basketball-reference brings up the following as his top 5 comps for similar seasons at age 25:

1) Cliff Robinson
2) Jermaine O'Neal
3) Karl Malone
4) Mark Aguirre
That's a good enough reason to never again use basketball-reference's top 5 comparisons!

Why? The numbers are the numbers. Dude here tried to defend his own supposition by picking 3 players, with bias, that had similar numbers to Zach but were on losing teams. I told him that was a silly thing to do, because you can pick 4 players, also with similar numbers, that were good players on good teams. The reason they come up in basketball reference's engine was that the numbers are the same.

Don't you see point I'm making about biased samples. Aren't you a Ph.D in psych?
bobs3304
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11/7/2007  2:28 PM
Go ahead and do the same for Jamison, Walker, and Shareef?


You'll be surprised what you find.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
arkrud
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11/7/2007  2:29 PM
Zack is not a problem but he is not a solution. He is The Finisher... and that's it.
He needs help to give his stats some meaning - wins, play-offs, and elite recognition for the team.
He heeds other players to cover for his deficiences on defence and offensive playmaking.
Can Marbs, Craf, Eddy, Lee, Balk, Nate provide this help?
IT want to engineer team from high quality role players and we know this was working before in NBA.
Now we will see how this plan will work out with the Knicks.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
bobs3304
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11/7/2007  2:32 PM
Look at Jamison now - 3rd best player on playoff team.

Shareef - just a role player.

Walker? WAS just a role player for Riley. Now he's a bum.



Zach's best bet is to swallow his enormous ego and pack his bags for a team that A.) Could actually USE his services, and B.) Already has a franchise player.


We're not heading up, so we might as well head down.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
VDesai
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11/7/2007  2:34 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
buddapaw
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11/7/2007  2:35 PM
Frickin again when will I learn
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misterearl
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11/7/2007  2:41 PM
bobs - why the hard-on for a player who only went for 22 and 17?

sheesh
once a knick always a knick
bobs3304
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11/7/2007  2:48 PM
Posted by buddapaw:

Frickin again when will I learn

Sounds like you need a drink buddy.


You're old enough right?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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11/7/2007  3:03 PM
This is an idiotic thread.

Shareef was a good player.....when he was younger. The dude is in his 30's....he's entitled to breakdown. Same with walker.

Jaimison can still play at a high level when healthy. Nobody crowned him the next anybody.

What's the point of this thread? Besides writing more excerpts from your book entitled "the idiot and the idiodicies".
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BigRedDog
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11/7/2007  3:25 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

This is an idiotic thread.

Shareef was a good player.....when he was younger. The dude is in his 30's....he's entitled to breakdown. Same with walker.

Jaimison can still play at a high level when healthy. Nobody crowned him the next anybody.

What's the point of this thread? Besides writing more excerpts from your book entitled "the idiot and the idiodicies".

What do you expect from a boob. This guy starts more idiotic treads than anyone. Who ever crowned randolph a franchise player? Right now he is playing very well and its only 3 games into the season and you want to ship him out of town . YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
bobs3304
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11/7/2007  3:28 PM
Wow, talk about hardons...




I wouldn't be surprised if one of you two was the "formidable" guy on MSG...




[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07-11-2007 3:29 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
newyorknewyork
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11/7/2007  3:50 PM
Nobody is expecting Randolph to save us. He was added to the team for Stevie Francis & Channing Frye. Its not like he was added for multiple lotto picks and ending salary. Just off his rebounding alone so far he has been worth it.

But I do still believe he has even more potential because of his skill level. If our guards keep up the level of playmaking they have been playing at then he will be a problem for other teams to match up with. A guy like Randolph needs strong guard play, same with Curry.

A guy like Jaimison would be great with 2 more hustle and atheltic players around him in the frontcourt. Imagine Jaimison with guys like Lee or Varjeo & Noah. Jaimison would be free to score and rebound what he does best while Lee & Noah or Varjeo would do the dirty work. Plus Jaimison would be able to slide to SF or PF.
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Bonn1997
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11/7/2007  3:56 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Basketball-reference brings up the following as his top 5 comps for similar seasons at age 25:

1) Cliff Robinson
2) Jermaine O'Neal
3) Karl Malone
4) Mark Aguirre
That's a good enough reason to never again use basketball-reference's top 5 comparisons!

Why? The numbers are the numbers. Dude here tried to defend his own supposition by picking 3 players, with bias, that had similar numbers to Zach but were on losing teams. I told him that was a silly thing to do, because you can pick 4 players, also with similar numbers, that were good players on good teams. The reason they come up in basketball reference's engine was that the numbers are the same.

Don't you see point I'm making about biased samples. Aren't you a Ph.D in psych?
What numbers are the same? There's an infinite number of stats and combinations of stats you can derive in basketball.
sebstar
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11/7/2007  3:58 PM
See, this is what I'm talking about. We are coming off the heels of an exciting win, with the temperature of knick fans ranging from cautious optimism to mild euphoria, so here comes this bobs guy with attention-seeking threads looking to throw salt on the positivity. This cat is even going so far as to create a negative thread about a fresh import (Randolph) who has looked great so far. What kind of a fan does this???? This shyt is childish and its obvious that you have way too much time on your hands. Take this nonsense to St. Elsewhere and get a life homeboy.

Congrats to the Knicks on a solid start to the season...No reason, with this talent level, that this cannot be sustained.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
misterearl
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11/7/2007  4:12 PM
sebstar - exactly

There were some important lessons learned last night that people are too busy complaining to discuss. No one wants to talk about how the Knicks (last in turnovers last season) protected the ball and took better shots down the stretch.

THAT is when games are won and lost.

No one dares talk about the unusual notion of four guys with 20 points. Balkman's domino effect on the frontcourt. Nate defending an all-star at less than 100%. No one noticed that the false prophets of, "Eddy and Zach will never work", suddenly went very, very silent... in the THIRD game of the regular season,

Nah.

Lets us sit around, like mindless cows in a tall patch of grass, and rechew the past instead.
once a knick always a knick
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How Is Zach Randolph Any Different Than Walker, Shareef, OR Jamison???
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