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Zach Randolph so far my take and why D lee should start
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BRIGGS
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11/6/2007  8:53 AM
I remember watching Zach against Dallas when Portland was down 3-0 in the playoffs and Zach started going off in game 3 near the end and they gave him a starting position and he terrorized Dallas back to 3-3. He looked incredible unstoppable nasty skilled a lot of adjectives there. I know he has had surgery on his knee but he was never a run-jump player anyway. Anyway I think Zach takes a bad shot to easily and seems to be a blackhole when he gets the ball--he doesnt want to move it around if he doesnt have good position or a good shot. Sorry but I DO NOT want to see Zach taking 7-8 floaters from 14-16 feet. I know we have Curry but we have to formulate something that plays to every one\'s strengths. IMO--from what I have seen--I think D Lee should start with Curry using Zach more like a Kevin Mchale off the bench when Curry gets his two fouls within 5-6 minutes. There is 30 minutes+ for each player. I think the best chemistry is D Lee + Curry and while you take a bit away from the second unit--that can be traded off with Zach staying LOW in the post where he is tough to deal with and not 14 feet away throwing up floaters out of the flow. So far D Lee has been the best BIG and it has gone unnoticed. I think the 3 can workout they just need to balance it correctly.
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TheGame
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11/6/2007  9:16 AM
Zach is actually not as bad a defensive player as advertised. His main limitation is an inability to block or disrupt shots because he does not get off the ground. However, he fights for rebounds, keeps himself between his man and the basket for the most part, and in general seems to be willing to push and shove and keep his man from getting good position. I agree that his is a bit of a blackhole. He definitely needs to work on that because we have too many options for him to force up bad shots. He needs to realize he will get the ball back or at least will get his shots over the course of the game.
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oohah
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11/6/2007  9:21 AM
Briggs, Lee has been the best big? I think Randolph has been the best big.

Screw it, just Start Curry, Lee, and Randolph! We'll beat the other team into submission!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Vmart
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11/6/2007  9:31 AM
I think Zach should continue to start. Yes he may not pass as much as you would like but to me passing on a shot when available is worse, that is what DLee does to often. His offensive skill set aren't great at all. His defense is as comparable to Zach. I like the rotation so far with DLee coming off the bench he provides that much needed spark everytime he comes in the game. Sometime this team needs a spart coming off the bench not sure if Zach can provide that kind of spark.
BRIGGS
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11/6/2007  9:43 AM
Posted by oohah:

Briggs, Lee has been the best big? I think Randolph has been the best big.

Screw it, just Start Curry, Lee, and Randolph! We\'ll beat the other team into submission!

oohah

No Zach has been the worst big. David Lee has top be in the top 10 in the NBA pre wise and if Curry wasnt shooting 18% from the FL he wouldnt be far behind. While Zach\'s straight numbers look good--18-12 everything else has been poor 39% FG% %&% FT shooting[although he is better than that] 3TO\'s per[and he doesnt pass much--so that is misleadingly worse. And while Zach has been good at times--he\'s been the conduit to the other team making runs--he took bad shots and bad passes vs Clev cost us that game and his wild shots in the second half let Minnesota back into it. David Lee has been awesome and Curry underrated so far.
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arkrud
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11/6/2007  9:47 AM
The problem is we have 3 starters for 2 positions.
Eddy must start because of the Isiah investments into him. Nothing can change this if IT is around.
Zack is most effective when he is starting wit 30-35 min. We invested in him too much to use him as 6 man.

Lee will be most effective as starter with 35-40 min. he also has max trade value from all Knicks players.
The way Isiah arranged it Lee is the odd man out. He will be traded by all-star break for starting SF, SG, or PG. We have none of this so it will be easy to get somebody.

I think this will be natural move and it will save me and probably a lot of other fans time. Because we will be able to make easy decision to stop wasting time watching pitiful basketball which Eddy, Zack, Q or whatever IT selected, Craf, and Marbs are poised to produce.

[Edited by - arkrud on 11-06-2007 09:48 AM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
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11/6/2007  9:59 AM
No Zach has been the worst big. David Lee has top be in the top 10 in the NBA pre wise and if Curry wasnt shooting 18% from the FL he wouldnt be far behind. While Zach\'s straight numbers look good--18-12 everything else has been poor
Why does the "everything else has been poor" argument apply to Zach but not Eddy? Zach's at least scoring AND rebounding the ball. The statement should apply more to Eddy than to Zach.
Nalod
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11/6/2007  10:03 AM
zach takes a lot of shots.

Isiah gotta play by contract. Dlee will get traded as a Starphuch save to his career. It will buy him time.

SOmeone will get hurt and Dlee will get minutes. Its a nice luxury to have as whom ever is hurt does not have to play thru it as much.
Anji
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11/6/2007  10:32 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by oohah:

Briggs, Lee has been the best big? I think Randolph has been the best big.

Screw it, just Start Curry, Lee, and Randolph! We\'ll beat the other team into submission!

oohah

No Zach has been the worst big. David Lee has top be in the top 10 in the NBA pre wise and if Curry wasnt shooting 18% from the FL he wouldnt be far behind. While Zach\'s straight numbers look good--18-12 everything else has been poor 39% FG% %&% FT shooting[although he is better than that] 3TO\'s per[and he doesnt pass much--so that is misleadingly worse. And while Zach has been good at times--he\'s been the conduit to the other team making runs--he took bad shots and bad passes vs Clev cost us that game and his wild shots in the second half let Minnesota back into it. David Lee has been awesome and Curry underrated so far.

Agree. I would start Lee and Curry, who has been average defensively.

Also, Q rich is the worst starting Forward(either position) currently. It doesn't help the front court with him playing like this.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Vmart
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11/6/2007  10:43 AM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by oohah:

Briggs, Lee has been the best big? I think Randolph has been the best big.

Screw it, just Start Curry, Lee, and Randolph! We\'ll beat the other team into submission!

oohah

No Zach has been the worst big. David Lee has top be in the top 10 in the NBA pre wise and if Curry wasnt shooting 18% from the FL he wouldnt be far behind. While Zach\'s straight numbers look good--18-12 everything else has been poor 39% FG% %&% FT shooting[although he is better than that] 3TO\'s per[and he doesnt pass much--so that is misleadingly worse. And while Zach has been good at times--he\'s been the conduit to the other team making runs--he took bad shots and bad passes vs Clev cost us that game and his wild shots in the second half let Minnesota back into it. David Lee has been awesome and Curry underrated so far.

Agree. I would start Lee and Curry, who has been average defensively.

Also, Q rich is the worst starting Forward(either position) currently. It doesn't help the front court with him playing like this.

Q is finished. He is a waste out there. I can't believe I'm saying this but I would rather have Jefferies out there than him. Definitely I would rather have Balkman out there all the time.
SupremeCommander
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11/6/2007  10:46 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
No Zach has been the worst big. David Lee has top be in the top 10 in the NBA pre wise and if Curry wasnt shooting 18% from the FL he wouldnt be far behind. While Zach\'s straight numbers look good--18-12 everything else has been poor
Why does the "everything else has been poor" argument apply to Zach but not Eddy? Zach's at least scoring AND rebounding the ball. The statement should apply more to Eddy than to Zach.

+999,999,999,999,999

It is baffling how Curry gets so much verbal fellatio from some folks... and then they can't admit Randolph is better because they believe it implies Curry stinks. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Who cares? Randolph is better and if I could only pull one out o a burning car, I'd try to pull Randolph out first.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
VDesai
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11/6/2007  10:49 AM
I'm not gonna go too crazy about Zach. The Knicks are scoring the ball pretty efficiently so far. He had one bad game shooting the ball and still ended up with like 16-10. He can't pass out of the double and he's got to improve that- but right now I like what he gives us offensively.

We absolutely have to get David Lee on the floor more. He should be playing 32-35 mins cause he is the only front court player we have that can run and set people up in addition to him being dominant on the boards. His post game has been impressive this year too.

I still think Curry is at his best as a finisher and matchup player. When we open things up and run the ball a little more (with Marbury off the floor), he changes his game and does a great filling lanes, finishing alley oops. It also seems to get his energy level going too. I also think he's good for the right matchups- slow footed centers like Z can't handle him. I don't like the offense at all when we try to filter the ball through him in the post. We get bogged down.
Killa4luv
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11/6/2007  12:14 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I remember watching Zach against Dallas when Portland was down 3-0 in the playoffs and Zach started going off in game 3 near the end and they gave him a starting position and he terrorized Dallas back to 3-3. He looked incredible unstoppable nasty skilled a lot of adjectives there. I know he has had surgery on his knee but he was never a run-jump player anyway. Anyway I think Zach takes a bad shot to easily and seems to be a blackhole when he gets the ball--he doesnt want to move it around if he doesnt have good position or a good shot. Sorry but I DO NOT want to see Zach taking 7-8 floaters from 14-16 feet. I know we have Curry but we have to formulate something that plays to every one\'s strengths. IMO--from what I have seen--I think D Lee should start with Curry using Zach more like a Kevin Mchale off the bench when Curry gets his two fouls within 5-6 minutes. There is 30 minutes+ for each player. I think the best chemistry is D Lee + Curry and while you take a bit away from the second unit--that can be traded off with Zach staying LOW in the post where he is tough to deal with and not 14 feet away throwing up floaters out of the flow. So far D Lee has been the best BIG and it has gone unnoticed. I think the 3 can workout they just need to balance it correctly.

I agree completely with your analysis of Zach, He is incredibly talented, doesnt rely on athleticis, but is a black hole and does force bad shots from 16+ feet away. I think thats about coaching, and can be corrected.

I also do not think its best to play he and Curry in 2 seperate units. Our real strength is to have them play dominantly on the floor at the same time. Thats what would break other teams backs. We have to force that issue until we have an idea of whether they can be effective together or not. If they can be, we can dominate teams, have their bigs in foul trouble, stay at the line, and have plenty of open shots for our wings.
93BUICK
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11/6/2007  3:32 PM
I think D Lee's limitations would be exposed as a starter- He's an excellent option off the bench to play big minutes and I think flourishes in that context-
It's true that EZpass starting is flawed but I think the guard play - and SF- are bigger problems in the starting lineup.
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
Ira
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11/6/2007  3:49 PM
Give Zach more time before you make judgments like that. He's still trying to fit in with the guys we have. I'd like to see Lee get 30+ minutes, but the Zach and Eddy show hasn't even warmed up yet. I want to see what happens when it gets in full swing. Then we can decide how it's working.
Elite
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11/6/2007  4:02 PM
honestly Zach looks good to me. I dont see him as a black hole
bobs3304
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11/6/2007  4:22 PM
What's the point of this?


Briggs you're already more intelligent than Isiah Thomas. I think we would be much better off getting a drink at the pub than spewing out empty truths about a team run by jurks.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 06-11-2007 4:23 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BigC
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11/6/2007  4:26 PM
So it's only been 2 games and people already want to bench Zach? Come on now put down the roach spray mixed with acid. It takes any normal player to get use to his team 2 months or more. The reason why Curry can get off in the begining is because of Zach. If you watched the last Wolves game Zach was getting doubled by Gomes or however was guarding Q. With Zach out of the lineup you have single coverage. Zach also gets his oppenent in foul trouble. In both games we put our opponents in early foul trouble. These are factors that can not be taking likely

Lee can not put his man in foul trouble or force his opponents to be doubled team. Teams that play us now have to develop a defensive scheme for Zach. By Zach being benched all we are doing is making our opponents lives easy.


I really don't understand how after two games people can even think about benching Zach who has been a rebounding monster and has been playing hard.

IF this was any other player people would be saying he needs time to get use to his teammates. Yet because it is Zach with a bad reputation he only get's 6 games to shape up by Knick fans standards.

So I guess people want Lee to start over Zach who is bring something to the table while Q gets rewarded for doing nothing but wearing a cute handband for the ladies.



[Edited by - BigC on 11-06-2007 4:31 PM]

[Edited by - BigC on 11-06-2007 4:34 PM]
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VDesai
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11/6/2007  4:41 PM
I see lots of people criticizing Zach's offense but we've scored 203 pts in 2 games. Is he really taking us out of the flow or has he really been a boost?
Anji
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11/6/2007  4:43 PM
Posted by Ira:

Give Zach more time before you make judgments like that. He's still trying to fit in with the guys we have. I'd like to see Lee get 30+ minutes, but the Zach and Eddy show hasn't even warmed up yet. I want to see what happens when it gets in full swing. Then we can decide how it's working.

Yeah he is trying to fit in and is already taking 20 shots a game and rarely passing. Where do those numbers go when he is comfortable???? I would Start Lee, because he and Curry will score and get out of the way.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
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Zach Randolph so far my take and why D lee should start
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