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what constitutes a winning season?
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BlueSeats
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10/31/2007  11:10 PM
I see even our most "patient" of posters (Misterearl, papabear, rembee, holfresh, etc) insist that if Isiah doesn't win this year he's gone.

So what constitutes "winning"? Is it 42+ wins?

Is it 38 wins if it gets you in the playoffs?

Is it advancing past the first round?

Is it unspecified improvement over 33 wins?

Is it getting off to a slow start but playing a month or two of .500 ball before injuries set in, etc?

Is it pulling off a promising trade by the deadline?

What is the minimum you will tolerate?

What is Isiah's do or die?
AUTOADVERT
TrueBlue
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10/31/2007  11:12 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I see even our most "patient" of posters (Misterearl, papabear, rembee, holfresh, etc) insist that if Isiah doesn't win this year he's gone.

So what constitutes "winning"? Is it 42+ wins?

Is it 38 wins if it gets you in the playoffs?

Is it advancing past the first round?

Is it unspecified improvement over 33 wins?

Is it getting off to a slow start but playing a month or two of .500 ball before injuries set in, etc?

Is it pulling off a promising trade by the deadline?

What is the minimum you will tolerate?

What is Isiah's do or die?


Anything less than a Playoff Second Round appearance is a failure.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Silverfuel
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10/31/2007  11:17 PM
I'm an optimistic Knick fan and not as anti-Isiah as most of this board.
Posted by BlueSeats:

So what constitutes "winning"? Is it 42+ wins?
yes
Is it 38 wins if it gets you in the playoffs?
That would count but only if a) they have major injuries and b) they are playing hard
Is it advancing past the first round?
Not neccesarily
What is the minimum you will tolerate?
They have to show heart and improved play from all major players ie: Curry, Lee, Balkman
What is Isiah's do or die?
A hard fought 1st round playoff series.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 10-31-2007 11:19 PM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
bobs3304
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10/31/2007  11:27 PM
Um, well I think "winning" is being on the + side of the win column.

So that would be anything over .500.


So I'll say .501.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
TrueBlue
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10/31/2007  11:47 PM
Here's what Jamal told us around the Ned of April beginning of May
Crawford vows playoff berth

With Golden State's Adonal Foyle finally making the playoffs in his 10th season, the dubious honor of longest tenure in the NBA without making the playoffs goes to Crawford (seven years).

"That will change next year," Crawford said in a phone interview. "You can quote me on that one. We'll be in the playoffs next year and beyond, God-willing that everyone is healthy."

Curry (six years) is tied with three other players for second. Curry's Bulls made the playoffs a year after Crawford was traded to the Knicks, but Curry couldn't play because of his heart condition.


LOL I remember when he said this and the "GOD WILLING" is classic. So according to the most deadly 40% shooting 2 guard if "Beyond" isn't accomplished as I said the season is a failure.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
newyorknewyork
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10/31/2007  11:51 PM
what constitutes a winning season?

Trading Curry & Crawford for shorter contracts, and balancing the roster.
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nixluva
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11/1/2007  12:01 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Anything less than a Playoff Second Round appearance is a failure.

A winning season is just that. You win more than you lose. The playoffs is another story. I expect the team to make it and do well, but you can't now set the bar as 2nd rd. TrueBlue. You're doing that just to try and set the team up to be seen as a failure. You're so damn transparent it's sad.

This is the best the East has been in years and now you want to hold the Knicks to a 2nd rd. playoff birth to determine success this year? You really need to go and look for the Celtic or Bulls forums, cuz you CAN'T be a Knick fan. I want the team to make the 2nd rd. cuz I want only the best for them, but you want to see them miss the 2nd rd, so you can hold it against them. Don't try to twist it any other way. Why else would you go so far as making the 2nd rd a must when you think the team sucks to begin with? Only a Celtic or Bulls fan could come up with that kind of logic. FREAKIN TROLL!!!
BasketballJones
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11/1/2007  12:01 AM
My criteria for a winning season:


  • The players grow as individuals, and establish themselves as winners in the game of life.
  • All those associated with the Knicks franchise evolve to a higher level
  • The players prove to Larry Brown that they are good enough doggone it
  • The players have fun out there on the basketball court
  • The players learn that winning isn't really important
  • Marbury becomes Starbury again
  • Marbury sells lots of shoes
  • Curry realizes his dream of becoming an acrobat
  • Crawford learns to play the banjo

  • The fans don't boo
  • The fans do the wave
  • The fans cheer ecstatically, win or lose

  • All the UK posters become lovers, whether the Knicks win or lose



[Edited by - basketballjones on 11-01-2007 00:01]
https:// It's not so hard.
bobs3304
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11/1/2007  12:03 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

what constitutes a winning season?

Trading Curry & Crawford for shorter contracts, and balancing the roster.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
franco12
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11/1/2007  12:15 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

what constitutes a winning season?

Trading Curry & Crawford for shorter contracts, and balancing the roster.

better yet- going 0 and 20 forcing dolan to fire Isiah!
SupremeCommander
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11/1/2007  12:54 AM
A winning season for this sorry franchise is one win over .500, or the the 42 wins mentioned. A winning season for, say, a proud franchise like the Yankees would consider this year's playoff team a failure and a loser.

Pretty stark contrast.
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TMS
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11/1/2007  3:14 AM
45 wins or better would be a start for me & then they'll have to show some guts in the 1st round even if they get eliminated... getting to .500 & sneaking into the playoffs doesn't mean jack if they're going to be eliminated in the 1st round by a much better team.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-01-2007 12:14 AM]
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RemBee76
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11/1/2007  7:33 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

So what constitutes "winning"? Is it 42+ wins?

Well, that would be the traditional definition, yes.

Come on, this isn't that hard. There is no "do or die" threshold, the team either continues to improve or it doesn't. It either builds on the progress it made last season, or it doesn't. They defend whiile taking care of the ball, or they don't. Curry and Randolph work together in the front court, our young guys continue to develop (including Lee who better not be getting less than 32 mpg this season), the team starts to carve out an identity and defend MSG with pride, or it doesn't.

Does that mean 38 wins, 42 wins, 52 wins? I don't know how anyone can say that until the season starts.

But if this is a prediction thread you are trying to start...41 wins and/or playoffs or Isiah Thomas is fired. Not a tough call to make, either.




[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 07:35 AM]
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BlueSeats
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11/1/2007  9:41 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by BlueSeats:

So what constitutes "winning"? Is it 42+ wins?

Well, that would be the traditional definition, yes.

Come on, this isn't that hard. There is no "do or die" threshold, the team either continues to improve or it doesn't. It either builds on the progress it made last season, or it doesn't. They defend whiile taking care of the ball, or they don't. Curry and Randolph work together in the front court, our young guys continue to develop (including Lee who better not be getting less than 32 mpg this season), the team starts to carve out an identity and defend MSG with pride, or it doesn't.

Does that mean 38 wins, 42 wins, 52 wins? I don't know how anyone can say that until the season starts.

But if this is a prediction thread you are trying to start...41 wins and/or playoffs or Isiah Thomas is fired. Not a tough call to make, either.




[Edited by - rembee76 on 11-01-2007 07:35 AM]

No offense, but you're a strange dude. You just gave four different answers: 42+; or unspecified "progress"; or 41; or playoffs.

Then you say it's not a tough call to make.

You're fun.
TheGame
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11/1/2007  9:51 AM
If this team wins 42+ games and does not embarass itself in the playoffs, IT will be given another year. Anything less, and IT is likely gone.

This year is a pivotal year. Next summer we will have the expiring contracts of Marbury and Rose as trade bait and we should have our own 1st round draft pick that will likely be in the mid-teens. We will either need to extend Lee and Nate or deal with them the following summer as restricted free agents. IT or who ever the GM is, should have alot of flexibility next summer to make a trade that balances out this roster.
Trust the Process
Bippity10
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11/1/2007  10:51 AM
It is accepted amongst many that if it wasn't for the injuries we would have won 38-41 games and possibly made the playoffs. So shouldn't we use that as a baseline for improvement?
I just hope that people will like me
RemBee76
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11/1/2007  11:49 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
No offense, but you're a strange dude. You just gave four different answers: 42+; or unspecified "progress"; or 41; or playoffs.

Then you say it's not a tough call to make.

You're fun.

Hmmm, again, if you want a prediction I think Isiah is going to have to get 41 wins to be safe. I say it isn't a tough call to make because you know management is going to celebrate the first winning season (or at least, not losing) in 6 years, while yet another losing season spells Zeke’s doom.

But can I see the team making 41 and not meeting the expectations that I set out (I thought pretty clearly) in my previous post? Yes.

And Bip is right, 38-41 wins is the right baseline to judge from and if this team stays healthy and only matches that, you wouldn't have to be Trueblue to be disappointed.

Well, if you were Trueblue you would be feigning disappointment, but that’s outside of the point.






Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
BlueSeats
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11/1/2007  12:17 PM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by BlueSeats:
No offense, but you're a strange dude. You just gave four different answers: 42+; or unspecified "progress"; or 41; or playoffs.

Then you say it's not a tough call to make.

You're fun.

Hmmm, again, if you want a prediction I think Isiah is going to have to get 41 wins to be safe. I say it isn't a tough call to make because you know management is going to celebrate the first winning season (or at least, not losing) in 6 years, while yet another losing season spells Zeke’s doom.

But can I see the team making 41 and not meeting the expectations that I set out (I thought pretty clearly) in my previous post? Yes.

And Bip is right, 38-41 wins is the right baseline to judge from and if this team stays healthy and only matches that, you wouldn't have to be Trueblue to be disappointed.

Well, if you were Trueblue you would be feigning disappointment, but that’s outside of the point.



Rem, I'm jut having fun with ya, but no, I don't think you're being completely clear.

What I think you're saying is that from management's perspective Isiah needs to win either 41 games, or sneak into the playoffs with less. (2 options)

But from your own perspective the knicks need to do one of, or some combination of:

taking care of the ball
Curry and Randolph work together in the front court
our young guys continue to develop (including Lee who better not be getting less than 32 mpg this season),
the team starts to carve out an identity and defend MSG with pride, or it doesn't.

(4 more options)

and wins or playoffs don't really matter so long as an unspecified degree of one or all of those 4 options are evident.

So 2 options for management and 4 for you.

Am I close?
RemBee76
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11/1/2007  12:23 PM
It isn't about the numbers, its about building a team.

I know you get this, Blue, but just can't help being argumentative. The soap opera that is Ultimateknicks and not the Knicks goes on.
Its like a groupie website, or bitter ex-wives club. -Sebstar
BlueSeats
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11/1/2007  12:27 PM
Posted by RemBee76:

It isn't about the numbers, its about building a team.

I know you get this, Blue, but just can't help being argumentative. The soap opera that is Ultimateknicks and not the Knicks goes on.

I get it when that's what you tell me, but in another tread I could have sworn I saw you saying Isiah needs to win, and I'm trying to define what winning actually means. The amount of variation in that presented by yourself and others points out just how plastic the whole notion is. I know you get that too.
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