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Fred Jones Previous Teams Never Valued Him, Why Are We?
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TrueBlue
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10/23/2007  4:24 PM
What I can't understand about the guy he is the atypical, prototype, scrub player but he does try hard when he gets time on the court but here's the kick......


Why when he was one of the lone 2 guards in Indy after Reggie retired he couldn't establish himself enough for the Pacers to retain him?


The guards there post Reggie Era, excluding point guards were, Stephen Jackson(who's a Guard/Forward) and tumbleweeds, then they traded for a gimp Peja for Artest second half of the season and he still couldn't increase his role with the team.

So he leaves for Toronto, a team trying to acquire young talent with plenty of opportunity to establish himself and who were the guards he was competing against there?...... Mo Pete, Anthony Parker, and Joey Graham. Now Mo Pete either got hurt or was getting DNP'd by Mitchell I believe very early in the season, Fred actually got some major clock some games and played mediocre basketball, very scrubish, eventually receiving very minimal to no playing time by Mitchell. Why couldn't he establish himself on that team?

Toronto proceeds to trade his scrub Azzz to Portland for the Mighty Juan Dixon who is still a Raptor BTW. Now here's a team that needed help. Who were the guards there?.....well obviously Roy was getting minutes there but that guy was getting minutes at the 1, 2, and 3 so there's still minutes to be had. Other guard(s) were Martell Webster and Sergio Rodiguez. Well he got a few spot minutes here and there but wasn't good enough for PDX to at least hold onto his expiring for this season to see if the guy could have a breakout contract yr. They tossed him into the Zach trade with no hesitation.

So now that we have him we hear he's going to be this defensive ball hawker in our backcourt and has been known to be a respectable defender. I never bothered to look up his stats until now and my oh my is his statistical rap sheet Putrid. He shot under 40%fg last yr from the floor and under 30%fg 3pt and his best yr defensively in Ind when he logged 30min/gm he still didn't avg 1stl/gm and just 3reb/gm. He's never avg 1stl/gm his whole career. His best shooting fg% careerwise is 42%. He's 28yrs old why are we trying to make serious use of him?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
AUTOADVERT
kam77
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10/23/2007  5:18 PM
This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
CDB
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10/23/2007  5:22 PM
Posted by kam77:

This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
Well said. Stats isn't everything. Fred is a defender and a good teammate/lockerroom guy and that is what we need on this team.
"I wipe my @ss with your feelings" - Tony Soprano
TrueBlue
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10/23/2007  5:23 PM
Posted by CDB:
Posted by kam77:

This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
Well said. Stats isn't everything. Fred is a defender and a good teammate/lockerroom guy and that is what we need on this team.


So are we saying those other teams don't value locker room/good teammate/defensive ball hawkers in practice, type of guys but we do?


And if we don't see what's going on behind closed doors how can we say what kind of player he is when real games aren't being played?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 10-23-2007 4:25 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
misterearl
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10/25/2007  7:32 AM
Fred Jones is another glue player.

You can never have too many "glue" players. Then again, maybe you can. Either way, I find it curious that the Knicks are critiqued for not bringing enough passion. Then they acquire a guy who plays with passion.

Now the problem is that no team valued him?

The people making personnel decisions MUST be idiots
once a knick always a knick
playa2
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10/25/2007  7:39 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

What I can't understand about the guy he is the atypical, prototype, scrub player but he does try hard when he gets time on the court but here's the kick......


Why when he was one of the lone 2 guards in Indy after Reggie retired he couldn't establish himself enough for the Pacers to retain him?


The guards there post Reggie Era, excluding point guards were, Stephen Jackson(who's a Guard/Forward) and tumbleweeds, then they traded for a gimp Peja for Artest second half of the season and he still couldn't increase his role with the team.

So he leaves for Toronto, a team trying to acquire young talent with plenty of opportunity to establish himself and who were the guards he was competing against there?...... Mo Pete, Anthony Parker, and Joey Graham. Now Mo Pete either got hurt or was getting DNP'd by Mitchell I believe very early in the season, Fred actually got some major clock some games and played mediocre basketball, very scrubish, eventually receiving very minimal to no playing time by Mitchell. Why couldn't he establish himself on that team?

Toronto proceeds to trade his scrub Azzz to Portland for the Mighty Juan Dixon who is still a Raptor BTW. Now here's a team that needed help. Who were the guards there?.....well obviously Roy was getting minutes there but that guy was getting minutes at the 1, 2, and 3 so there's still minutes to be had. Other guard(s) were Martell Webster and Sergio Rodiguez. Well he got a few spot minutes here and there but wasn't good enough for PDX to at least hold onto his expiring for this season to see if the guy could have a breakout contract yr. They tossed him into the Zach trade with no hesitation.

So now that we have him we hear he's going to be this defensive ball hawker in our backcourt and has been known to be a respectable defender. I never bothered to look up his stats until now and my oh my is his statistical rap sheet Putrid. He shot under 40%fg last yr from the floor and under 30%fg 3pt and his best yr defensively in Ind when he logged 30min/gm he still didn't avg 1stl/gm and just 3reb/gm. He's never avg 1stl/gm his whole career. His best shooting fg% careerwise is 42%. He's 28yrs old why are we trying to make serious use of him?

He's valued on our team because we lack two-way players in the back court and he fits the bill well.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
misterearl
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10/25/2007  7:47 AM
>>He's valued on our team because we lack two-way players in the back court and he fits the bill well.

playa - Mardy Collins is as "tw0-way", and intelligent, as they come. When you consider his talent for defense (steals), rebounding and running the offense - Mardy is three-way.

Young Nate is also showing signs of becoming more than an annoying pest.
once a knick always a knick
Silverfuel
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10/25/2007  8:09 AM
Posted by kam77:

This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
Yup. Chauncey Billups wasn't valued in Boston, Toronto, Denver and Minnesota either but turned out to be a huge part of a championship team. Just watch TrueBlue twist my post though. Should be interesting.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
fishmike
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10/25/2007  8:09 AM
everyone in the NBA is good. But by NBA standards Fred Jones sucks. He's the 11th or 12th guy on the bench.

Glue players are great when they are around guys like Garnett, Kobe and Nash. We dont need glue players, we need players.

We still have a team that doesnt win and its made of a group of guys who have never won. Talk about Mardy Collins till your blue in the face. There is nothing about this team or roster that = wins in the NBA
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Marv
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10/25/2007  8:10 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by kam77:

This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
Yup. Chauncey Billups wasn't valued in Boston, Toronto, Denver and Minnesota either but turned out to be a huge part of a championship team. Just watch TrueBlue twist my post though. Should be interesting.

bring larry back and fred = chauncey.
Silverfuel
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10/25/2007  8:18 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by kam77:

This is the problem with being a fan. We look at stats and only see the past. We don't see whats happening today behind closed doors. What if FJ is killing people in practice and bringing it everyday? Doesn't that count for anything?
Yup. Chauncey Billups wasn't valued in Boston, Toronto, Denver and Minnesota either but turned out to be a huge part of a championship team. Just watch TrueBlue twist my post though. Should be interesting.
bring larry back and fred = chauncey.
Damn! I walked right into that one.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
misterearl
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10/25/2007  8:28 AM
4-2 don't count

>>We still have a team that doesnt win and its made of a group of guys who have never won.

fishmike - you know I love you like my cross-eyed step nephew on Uncle Bernard's side of the family but the season hasn't even started and your kvetching over winning?

Why must Fred Jones' past hang like some curse of doom around his neck?

Just imagine a guy who's never won anything - getting a first taste of winning. Kinda like the Colorado Rockies.

once a knick always a knick
Michael6835
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10/25/2007  9:19 AM
Not to throw out any crazy comparisons, but there are other players that had questionable pasts that seemed to turn it around once they got into the right situation. The guy that comes to mind is Billups, I'm not saying FJ is going to be the next Billups, rather just trying to make an example of how guys can turn the corner. FJ might now have been what other teams needed, but on our team, he is exactly what we need. He hustles and he plays with a chip on his shoulder, he has something to prove. That can only work out good for us. I hope he does well, he'll definitely take minutes away from Mardy, but thats good because we didn't need collins coming back to soon and hurting him self. (sorry for the run on sentence)
M
JesseDark
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10/25/2007  9:23 AM
I don't think we can compare him relative to other teams valued but to what are team needs are. Our needs are perimeter defense and the ability to knock down jump shoots. He is doing that so its a pleasant surprise.

[Edited by - JesseDark on 10-25-2007 09:24 AM]
Bring back dee-fense
misterearl
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10/25/2007  9:32 AM
"How can I make my teammates better by practicing?"

Michael6835 - think of the intrinsic benefits of having a dude like Fred Jones in the face of your guards in practice. Suddenly, the competitive juices flow with a bit more force.
once a knick always a knick
playa2
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10/25/2007  9:36 AM
Posted by misterearl:

>>He's valued on our team because we lack two-way players in the back court and he fits the bill well.

playa - Mardy Collins is as "tw0-way", and intelligent, as they come. When you consider his talent for defense (steals), rebounding and running the offense - Mardy is three-way.

Young Nate is also showing signs of becoming more than an annoying pest.

I like Mardy don't get me wrong but Iisiah knows unless mardy drives to the basket he's a non factor scoring from the outside just like balkman and that my friend is not a two-way player.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
misterearl
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10/25/2007  9:43 AM
playa2 - I always thought a "two-way" player described one capable of being used in two ways as in multiple roles. Or in the case of basketball, multiple positions - lead guard or shooting guard.

For me, that could also stretch into playing effective offense and defense. ie. a player who can beat you with contributions on both sides of the ball.

Not simply one with an inside and outside shot.

you could look it up
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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10/25/2007  10:34 AM
Posted by misterearl:

4-2 don't count

>>We still have a team that doesnt win and its made of a group of guys who have never won.

fishmike - you know I love you like my cross-eyed step nephew on Uncle Bernard's side of the family but the season hasn't even started and your kvetching over winning?

Why must Fred Jones' past hang like some curse of doom around his neck?

Just imagine a guy who's never won anything - getting a first taste of winning. Kinda like the Colorado Rockies.
the season hasnt started yet? Right.. so we are all in first place I suppose. Please.. the Knicks and Isiah have earned their title as losers and basement dwellers. I hope that changes.. I really do. I love basketball but if and when the Knicks SUCK I dont watch the NBA. I just dont care enough about that league right now to watch for the sake of watching.

Its a new year right? Maybe this is the year Jamal shoots more then 40%, or Marbury learns how to make an entry pass, or Curry is in shape and jumps for rebounds, or Q's back doesnt break, or Isiah makes a trade that helps the team, or we WIN some NBA games... maybe right? Its a new year!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
playa2
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10/25/2007  10:41 AM
Posted by misterearl:

playa2 - I always thought a "two-way" player described one capable of being used in two ways as in multiple roles. Or in the case of basketball, multiple positions - lead guard or shooting guard.

For me, that could also stretch into playing effective offense and defense. ie. a player who can beat you with contributions on both sides of the ball.

Not simply one with an inside and outside shot.

you could look it up

Mista, when you can leave a perimmitter player consistently open out on the perimitter because you dare them to shoot the jumper because their shot is suspect that my fiend is a liabilty and not a two-way player.



JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
misterearl
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10/25/2007  3:04 PM
playa - you could use a dictionary

but don't let me stand in the way of your (cough) train of reasoning

party on
once a knick always a knick
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