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Crazy Stuff - Seems Like I'm Not Alone In Feeling Some Willis Reed In Zach Randoph's Game
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misterearl
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10/14/2007  3:20 PM
From Steve Adamek

Seeing that, the mind's eye scans back through an imaginary collection of old NBA films to find a lefty big man whom Randolph resembled at that moment and settles, first, on Bob Lanier.

And then, perhaps sacrilegiously, Willis Reed.

Certainly, to compare someone who averaged almost a double-double for a team that didn't make the playoffs in his final four trouble-filled seasons to a Knicks' icon with two championship rings doesn't exactly float.

...Still, Randolph looks the part of those two Hall of Famers. For the Knicks, it's a start.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMDgwMzgmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Willis, at 6'9 built more like a forward, had the ability to draw larger centers away from the paint with his left-handed jump shot. Check. Willis rebounded like a warrior. Check. Willis never would be confused with a sculpted, athletic type because his body lacked definition. Check. Willis was not especially quick, airborne or even fluid, but the ball went in the hoop.

Check.
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mythfaze
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10/14/2007  3:35 PM
Posted by misterearl:

From Steve Adamek

Seeing that, the mind's eye scans back through an imaginary collection of old NBA films to find a lefty big man whom Randolph resembled at that moment and settles, first, on Bob Lanier.

And then, perhaps sacrilegiously, Willis Reed.

Certainly, to compare someone who averaged almost a double-double for a team that didn't make the playoffs in his final four trouble-filled seasons to a Knicks' icon with two championship rings doesn't exactly float.

...Still, Randolph looks the part of those two Hall of Famers. For the Knicks, it's a start.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMDgwMzgmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Willis, at 6'9 built more like a forward, had the ability to draw larger centers away from the paint with his left-handed jump shot. Check. Willis rebounded like a warrior. Check. Willis never would be confused with a sculpted, athletic type because his body lacked definition. Check. Willis was not especially quick, airborne or even fluid, but the ball went in the hoop.

Check.

Interesting. Keep in mind, however, that Willis played defense.
djsunyc
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10/14/2007  3:36 PM
one down...and a frazier, monroe, phil, dave, bill, and holzman to go...
misterearl
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10/14/2007  3:45 PM
mythfaze - Willis DID Man Up with the best crop of centers in NBA history, but if you remember how he played, his defensive game was built around positioning more than it was about power. Willis may have allowed some big offensive outbursts against the Chamberlain's, Unseld's, Russell's and Thurmond's - but the Knicks as a team, would get the job done.

dj- like the man said - one is a start

If David Lee if he ever extends his range, the Knicks already have a DeBusschere clone

If you squint REAL hard Mardy Collins is Clyde without the floor-length fur coat

There is only one Earl Monroe
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codeunknown
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10/14/2007  3:47 PM
Posted by misterearl:


If you squint REAL hard Mardy Collins is Clyde without the floor-length fur coat

Don't hurt yourself squinting.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
djsunyc
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10/14/2007  3:47 PM
zach is one of the most fluid offensive big men i've ever seen play this game. he overcomes his physical limitations by knowing how to use his body and how to position himself. in that respect, he is similar to how tim duncan overcomes his lack of athleticism.

what i don't understand is if a guy can drop 20 points and knows the nuances of how to get a shot off AND make the basket, how do those skills not translate on the other end of the court?
mythfaze
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10/14/2007  3:49 PM
Whether it was positioning or power or something else that made him effective, he got the job done. Think he has all defensive team honors under his belt at least once to attest to that.
misterearl
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10/14/2007  3:57 PM
djsu - where does Zach's reputation as a defensive sieve originate?

I have a sneaky feeling that no one here has EVER watched Zach's game that closely. If they did, all the parrot-like kvetching over him being a low post redundancy to Eddy would have never been the accepted line of reasoning.

Based on the reports on his matchups with Garnett, it sounds like they have a nice little sub-game going.

Does a matchup rivalry happen (with a Superstar like Garnett no less) when one player dominates another?
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misterearl
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10/14/2007  3:58 PM
mythfaze - I'm witchoo on Willis. Not many played with a larger heart than the man from Grambling.

All I'm sayin' is Zach ain't no punk on defense
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misterearl
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10/14/2007  4:02 PM
"one down...and a frazier, monroe, phil, dave, bill, and holzman to go..."

djsu - I would also submit that GM Isiah Thomas is as good (if not better) an evaluator of talent as GM Eddie Donovan

baby steps

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djsunyc
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10/14/2007  4:04 PM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - where does Zach's reputation as a defensive sieve originate?

I have a sneaky feeling that no one here has EVER watched Zach's game that closely. If they did, all the parrot-like kvetching over him being a low post redundancy to Eddy would have never been the accepted line of reasoning.

Based on the reports on his matchups with Garnett, it sounds like they have a nice little sub-game going.

Does a matchup rivalry happen (with a Superstar like Garnett no less) when one player dominates another?

matchup rivalry happens in postseasons.

i've seen zach play a few games live. i paid a ton of attention to him vs. maccabi - hopefully he was just taking an off night b/c he didn't play one second on the other side of the court.

one thing about the low post redundancy - i don't think it's parroting - i think it's a legitimate viable concern about this team moving forward. it's not about identical games in terms of how they shoot the ball or the moves they make, it's about how they need the ball to operate and how they don't bring anything else to the table WHEN they don't have the ball to operate.

zach averages about 2.5-3 offensive rebounds a game which comes almost every time after his own miss. this happens b/c the opposing defender is trying to guard zach while he has the ball. after the shot goes up, he doesn't have enough time to recover to grab the quick rebound as zach is very good to go after his own shot. he doesn't fade away, he is in direct position to get a rebound after he shoots. now if eddy shares the offensive load, will zach still be able to attack the offensive glass? that's to be determined but i don't think that's kvetching at all.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 10-14-2007 4:06 PM]
Marv
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10/14/2007  4:09 PM
^speaking of rebounding your own misses: every time i've gone to a game with jimimou he says watch, eddy will get half his total rebounds for the game in one sequence of rebounding his own misses. and he's right every time.
misterearl
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10/14/2007  4:12 PM
dj - I don't think the question is "if" Eddy will share the offensive load but "how"

Here's the plan - First man down the floor gets to post up. The follower sets up outside the paint.
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djsunyc
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10/14/2007  4:15 PM
Posted by misterearl:

dj - I don't think the question is "if" Eddy will share the offensive load but "how"

Here's the plan - First man down the floor gets to post up. The follower sets up outside the paint.

this team needs to slow down to a crawl. play halfcourt. and play 2 options on offense.

if marbury brings up the ball - run a two man pick&roll with zach.
if roidford brings up the ball - run a two man game with eddy.

no other plays involved. that's how this season should go.
misterearl
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10/14/2007  4:40 PM
riodford

dj - you funny

Yo, but when Lee and Balkman get in, all hell breaks loose
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Ira
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10/14/2007  5:01 PM
I see several differences. One, as was mentioned is defence. I'm not going to say Zach is terrible on d, but Willis was very good. The other is leadership. Willis was the respected leader on a team with several hall of famers. I like Zach and I love the trade that brought him here, but I don't think he's on Willis's level as a player or a person.
djsunyc
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10/14/2007  5:02 PM
Posted by misterearl:

riodford

dj - you funny

Yo, but when Lee and Balkman get in, all hell breaks loose

one thing about jamal - all the new weight is up on his shoulders and chest. to the point his jersey actually fits different on him. but his legs are still crack skinny - looks like no weight was gained there. hopefully this somewhat disproportionate looking weight gain will not put pressure on his feet and joints.
misterearl
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10/14/2007  5:09 PM
crack is wack

dj - remember when Camby came in buffed and promptly started struggling?

If the Knicks crack conditioning staff was involved in Jamal's offseason program, hopefully dude hit the squat rack at least once

Ira - excellent points all. Now, it is documented that Zach isn't on THE Captain's level as a citizen or leader of men, but I bet when Zach speaks, dude's be listening.

He's only 26
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misterearl
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10/14/2007  5:10 PM
.... and the big city is a great place for continuing education
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93BUICK
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10/14/2007  7:41 PM
Sensibly stated, Ira.
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
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Crazy Stuff - Seems Like I'm Not Alone In Feeling Some Willis Reed In Zach Randoph's Game
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