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Comparing Layden to Isiah
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jskinny35
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10/5/2007  1:11 PM
I was happy when Layden was fired, but forgetting important things like "winning records" - I still think we were better off with Layden, from a fan's perspective...

- While our roster was filled with Weatherspoons, Wards, Mutombos and Shannon Andersons - they played as hard as their talent would let them. At least we felt that they gave it their all, and the problem was they weren't talented enough to do better.

- They displayed a higher level of professionalism and teamwork than our current team. As a fan, you can forgive the wins/losses sometimes, if the team plays hard and is professional. While Layden was a chump, he didn't promote an unprofessional environment.

What's missing (besides a winning team) from our current knicks? Leadership, professionalism, heart, teamwork, etc... Feels weird to think you're better off with Shandon Anderson and Charlie Ward - but some of the things that have happended (fight vs Denver) would have never occured with the old roster, as they promoted an atmostphere where the other team would have never tried to run up the score. Of our current knicks, we do have some talented, hard-working players - but the whole culture is so polluted with selfishness (eg Nate, Marbury (at times), limited accountability (eg J.James not appearing to care) and limited professionalism (eg Curry being mostly fat). If you agree with this post, how can the Isiah fans not conclude that this flows down from our GM/Coach (yes, from Dolan originally)? Now with his lawsuit, the message that you can sexually harass someone (whether he did it or not) and resume coaching the next day sends a bad message to the team. Ok, just pissed off this Isiah thing will never end...
AUTOADVERT
BasketballJones
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10/5/2007  1:12 PM
I think they both suck in their own way. Can't we do better?
https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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10/5/2007  1:19 PM
layden's belief system includes having multiple wives. looks to me like layden is the winner in the game of life...
islesfan
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10/5/2007  1:22 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

layden's belief system includes having multiple wives. looks to me like layden is the winner in the game of life...

It's not even close.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
arkrud
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10/5/2007  1:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

layden's belief system includes having multiple wives. looks to me like layden is the winner in the game of life...

It's not even close.

No. Isiah is the Winner.
He will be remembered... for looooong time.
He get his place in history... Kind of Lee Harvey Oswald of backetball...




"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
WOODMANnYk
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10/5/2007  8:40 PM
ASsiah is a joke and made a joke out of this organization with the help of his boss, buffoon Dolan!

The Future. GO KNICKS!
4949
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10/5/2007  10:11 PM
Posted by jskinny35:

I was happy when Layden was fired, but forgetting important things like "winning records" - I still think we were better off with Layden, from a fan's perspective...

- While our roster was filled with Weatherspoons, Wards, Mutombos and Shannon Andersons - they played as hard as their talent would let them. At least we felt that they gave it their all, and the problem was they weren't talented enough to do better.

- They displayed a higher level of professionalism and teamwork than our current team. As a fan, you can forgive the wins/losses sometimes, if the team plays hard and is professional. While Layden was a chump, he didn't promote an unprofessional environment.

What's missing (besides a winning team) from our current knicks? Leadership, professionalism, heart, teamwork, etc... Feels weird to think you're better off with Shandon Anderson and Charlie Ward - but some of the things that have happended (fight vs Denver) would have never occured with the old roster, as they promoted an atmostphere where the other team would have never tried to run up the score. Of our current knicks, we do have some talented, hard-working players - but the whole culture is so polluted with selfishness (eg Nate, Marbury (at times), limited accountability (eg J.James not appearing to care) and limited professionalism (eg Curry being mostly fat). If you agree with this post, how can the Isiah fans not conclude that this flows down from our GM/Coach (yes, from Dolan originally)? Now with his lawsuit, the message that you can sexually harass someone (whether he did it or not) and resume coaching the next day sends a bad message to the team. Ok, just pissed off this Isiah thing will never end...

I can just hear Layden saying something like 'what, no love today'.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Solace
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10/5/2007  10:39 PM
Great post, jskinny35. I've preached these very same things and gotten flamed on this board. Well done. Anyone who can argue with what you wrote is in denial, plain and simple.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
TheGame
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10/6/2007  11:13 AM
With Layden the team was average with no future. With IT the team is average with a future. That really is the difference for me. Say what you want about IT, this team has alot of talent from 1 to 15. We just have to find a way to cut out the unwanted parts and add a few glue pieces to pull it all together. Maybe IT is not the person to take that next step, but he did a better job than Layden in getting us to a point of having solid young talent.
Trust the Process
Silverfuel
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10/6/2007  12:35 PM
Posted by TheGame:

With Layden the team was average with no future. With IT the team is average with a future. That really is the difference for me. Say what you want about IT, this team has alot of talent from 1 to 15. We just have to find a way to cut out the unwanted parts and add a few glue pieces to pull it all together. Maybe IT is not the person to take that next step, but he did a better job than Layden in getting us to a point of having solid young talent.
good post. Thats exactly it!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
4949
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10/6/2007  5:52 PM
Posted by TheGame:

With Layden the team was average with no future. With IT the team is average with a future. That really is the difference for me. Say what you want about IT, this team has alot of talent from 1 to 15. We just have to find a way to cut out the unwanted parts and add a few glue pieces to pull it all together. Maybe IT is not the person to take that next step, but he did a better job than Layden in getting us to a point of having solid young talent.

To pull what' together? As this next season proceeds, I will be pointing out all of the stupid moves that where made and the warnings that where reminded of. This team will probably be just about as good as last year (if you wanna call it that) or one disaster away from going completely bust! Overall, this team isn't going anywhere. Why? It is a high' risk team. 'Anything' can go wrong at anytime and it will only take a few players to ruin yet another season. I mean how much more proof do ya need for crying out loud! We have a few players who have troubled pasts, we have shown to be more injury prone. I definately see another season of development down the drain. With suckbury's big mouth, Dolans conviction (via Isiah) and Balkmans injury these are very bad signs of things to come.
I'll never trust this' team again.
COSSUCKS
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10/6/2007  6:04 PM
It is only 3.5 seasons ago. Where are all of Laydens players now?
4949
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10/6/2007  6:08 PM
You must have been away for a while. He got rid of all of them.
I'll never trust this' team again.
bigbeast
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10/6/2007  6:33 PM
Posted by TheGame:

With Layden the team was average with no future. With IT the team is average with a future. That really is the difference for me. Say what you want about IT, this team has alot of talent from 1 to 15. We just have to find a way to cut out the unwanted parts and add a few glue pieces to pull it all together. Maybe IT is not the person to take that next step, but he did a better job than Layden in getting us to a point of having solid young talent.


Fair point. When Layden was axed, their weren't any players left in the cubbard to build with. If Isiah is axed right now, the next GM will have a few young pieces to play with. No allstars, but some valuable keepers (Lee, Balk, Chandler, Curry, Mardy) that can help this team moving forward.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
4949
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10/6/2007  6:41 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by TheGame:

With Layden the team was average with no future. With IT the team is average with a future. That really is the difference for me. Say what you want about IT, this team has alot of talent from 1 to 15. We just have to find a way to cut out the unwanted parts and add a few glue pieces to pull it all together. Maybe IT is not the person to take that next step, but he did a better job than Layden in getting us to a point of having solid young talent.


Fair point. When Layden was axed, their weren't any players left in the cubbard to build with. If Isiah is axed right now, the next GM will have a few young pieces to play with. No allstars, but some valuable keepers (Lee, Balk, Chandler, Curry, Mardy) that can help this team moving forward.

And don't forget also, expiring contracts!
I'll never trust this' team again.
gambit2081
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10/7/2007  1:38 AM
Let us not forget Layden traded Sprewell for Van horn and Camby for a broken down Mcdyess , two of the worst trades in franchise history. Say what you say about Isaiah's signings but anybody he got rid of deserved to be out of here.
CrushAlot
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10/7/2007  2:00 AM
Layden brought in under talented character guys who played a role on winning teams with superstars. Isiah brings in unmotivated, character flawed players with tremendous talent who never won before their tenure with the Knicks. Isiah is much better at assesing talent independently from any other factors that contribute to winning. Layden is much better at checking his ego, having professional relationships, and maintaining a professional work place. Isiah is an ego maniac who will not back down and seeks revenge against those who cross him (currently Nichols). Layden did not have the ego to make it in NY and appeared to not have a very high basketball IQ. Neither represents a recipe for success for an NBA franchise.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
islesfan
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10/7/2007  3:23 AM
Posted by gambit2081:

Let us not forget Layden traded Sprewell for Van horn and Camby for a broken down Mcdyess , two of the worst trades in franchise history. Say what you say about Isaiah's signings but anybody he got rid of deserved to be out of here.

Did the lottery picks he traded away deserve to be out of here?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Vmart
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10/7/2007  10:42 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by gambit2081:

Let us not forget Layden traded Sprewell for Van horn and Camby for a broken down Mcdyess , two of the worst trades in franchise history. Say what you say about Isaiah's signings but anybody he got rid of deserved to be out of here.

Did the lottery picks he traded away deserve to be out of here?

It brought back Curry so yes the lottery picks needed to be out of here.
islesfan
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10/7/2007  10:58 AM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by gambit2081:

Let us not forget Layden traded Sprewell for Van horn and Camby for a broken down Mcdyess , two of the worst trades in franchise history. Say what you say about Isaiah's signings but anybody he got rid of deserved to be out of here.

Did the lottery picks he traded away deserve to be out of here?

It brought back Curry so yes the lottery picks needed to be out of here.

So does Curry and most of the players that Isiah has brought in here.

It's a never ending cycle I guess.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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