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islesfan
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9/23/2007  7:51 AM
Comments Prove Knicks Should Get Rid of Isiah
by George Willis - NY Post

September 23, 2007 -- WHEN Isiah Thomas became president of the Knicks, it was hoped he would turn around the futility that had engulfed the franchise and restore the pride and passion that once defined the team.

But six weeks from beginning his fifth season as president and second as head coach, Thomas has helped turn the Knicks into an organization for which I would never want my daughter to work.

I don't know whether Thomas is guilty of sexually harassing Anucha Browne Sanders. That is for a jury to decide at the end of this ugly trial. But he is guilty of endorsing the kind of Neanderthal thinking that is unsuitable for someone occupying his high-profile positions.

Thomas should lose his jobs as president and head coach if for nothing more than saying it's less offensive for a black man to call a black woman a bitch than it is if a white male uttered the same vulgarity. That lack of social sensibility was displayed during Thomas' videotaped deposition played last week in a federal courtroom.

Thomas said a white male calling a black female a bitch "would have violated my code of conduct. ... A white man calling a black woman a bitch ... that is a problem for me." Yet asked about a black man calling a black woman a bitch, Thomas responded, "Not as much, I'm sorry to say. I do make a distinction."

Translation: It's unacceptable for white men to call black women vulgar names, but it's OK if black males do. That alone should cost Thomas his job the same way it cost Don Imus his job for referring to the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos."

Maybe Thomas has an explanation for his thinking. Because it was on videotape he can't say he was misquoted. Hopefully, he won't say it's a cultural thing, which seems to be the excuse these days when someone is caught doing something stupid. It's not cultural. It's not acceptable. It's wrong.

If anything, it should be even more offensive when a black male slurs a black woman. Black men should be more appreciative and grateful for the role black women have played throughout history, nurturing and protecting their families often in difficult circumstances. They should be respected and cherished, especially by black men.

As someone raised by a single mother and four aunts, I can't rationalize or dismiss Thomas' thinking. It's unacceptable for anyone to think it's anything but reprehensible to call someone a bitch or any other vulgar term, regardless of color.

When Imus disrespected the Rutgers women's basketball team, there was an outcry from the African-American community for his dismissal. The outcry over Thomas' statement should be just as loud.

A crafty attorney might suggest Thomas didn't admit to calling Sanders a bitch, only that in theory he doesn't believe it's as offensive when a black man does it. Close enough.

I'm wondering what the mothers of the African-American players on his team are thinking. How would he explain his rationale to them or the black women who attend Knicks game or sell concessions at the Garden or clean the arena when his games are done? What must they think of Thomas? What must they think of the Knicks?

Again, I don't know whether Thomas is guilty of sexual harassment. The jury will decide. But Thomas is guilty of believing it's somehow OK or not as dehumanizing for black men to berate black women. You can't think that way and be president of the Knicks.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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islesfan
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9/23/2007  9:11 AM
Drew Sharp
Detroit Free Press

Isiah's argument that skin color makes 'b-word' OK is ridiculous

September 23, 2007

If Isiah Thomas gets a free pass from the black community for his idiocy, then Don Imus should get his job back.

This is the double standard that too often blacks believe doesn't exist.

Thomas admitted in a videotaped court deposition that he believes there's a distinction when a white man calls a black woman "bitch" as opposed to when a black man uses the derogatory term.

Anucha Browne Sanders, a black woman, is suing Thomas and the New York Knicks over allegations of sexual harassment and unlawful termination. It appears that the "b-word" flew with regularity among Knicks executives and players. The Knicks' attorneys have argued during their cross-examination of Sanders that the exact placement of the word when used has a bearing on its meaning, asking her whether it was used in the beginning, middle or end of a sentence.

An insult is an insult.

And stupidity is stupidity.

Thomas denies the accusations Sanders levied against him, but my biggest issue with him is how he believes that racial profiling is acceptable for incendiary words.

Would he want anybody calling his daughter a "bitch" in her workplace?

I don't think so.

Imus calling the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" not only cost him his national radio gig, but raised awareness as to how black women are negatively stereotyped.

Thomas is doing the same thing if he believes it's different if the insult comes from a similar skin tone. And if the black community isn't equally disgusted with Isiah's attitude, then it's exposing a hypocrisy that leaves it vulnerable to charges of selective contempt.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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9/23/2007  9:31 AM
Now, I'm not an Isiah supporter but he never said that it was "OK" for any one of any color to use the word. That's poor spin. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Isiah.
joec32033
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9/23/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Now, I'm not an Isiah supporter but he never said that it was "OK" for any one of any color to use the word. That's poor spin. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Isiah.

Bonn, this really isn't spin. Granted he didn't out right say that it was ok for a black man to use that slur against a black woman. BUT he didn't say it "violated his code of conduct" either. Think of this. We have all been on Isiah for taking in all these players from Chicago. Whether it's because he's from there or not, we'll never know. But if he is so ready to differentiate on skin color on something like this, what's to say he can put color aside when building this team.


I AM NOT CALLING ISIAH A RACIST.

Although it would be a VERY easy thing to do right now given the taped words he said and the words Anucha has accused him of saying about the season ticket holders. How many white players do you think want to come here even with the idea that the GM may or may not hold them to a different standard than their black counterparts? How comfortable do you think David Lee is right now? How about the message to Guys like Randolph and Curry and Stephon that you can mess up and you may get a pass mainly because of the color of your skin?

There are alot of things, "legitimate reasons", to bash Isiah. This one may or may not be the worst, but it is still another proverbial nail in his coffin when it comes to some casual, and even hardcore, fans that are tired of the circus and laughingstock this team has become.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Ira
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9/23/2007  10:41 AM
I listened to the deposition online and he really did make it clear that he a thought it was wrong for a black man to call a black woman a bitch. What that reporter
(Translation: It's unacceptable for white men to call black women vulgar names, but it's OK if black males do. That alone should cost Thomas his job the same way it cost Don Imus his job for referring to the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos.")
is completely false.
joec32033
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9/23/2007  10:49 AM
Posted by Ira:

I listened to the deposition online and he really did make it clear that he a thought it was wrong for a black man to call a black woman a bitch. What that reporter
(Translation: It's unacceptable for white men to call black women vulgar names, but it's OK if black males do. That alone should cost Thomas his job the same way it cost Don Imus his job for referring to the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos.")
is completely false.

As correct as that is, the fact that he indirectly admitted color may or may not play a part in his decision making is alot more hurtful than what he actually was commenting on.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Bonn1997
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9/23/2007  11:12 AM
Joe, I actually don't disagree with your view. I disagree with the sloppy journalism. Is this not a very misleading (maybe even factually false) article title?
"Isiah's argument that skin color makes 'b-word' OK is ridiculous"
That's the *title* of the second article! (with bold font added)
Allanfan20
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9/23/2007  11:41 AM
It's not what he said, but his quotes lead you to believe that. The fact that he differentiated is pretty bad. The fact that he said it's basically more OK for a black male to do is is MORE OK is pretty bad, when in fact, the black community is struggling to get away from this image. He's now almost giving the black community a pass to say it, whether it's worded that way, or not. Isiah doesn't deserve to have the priviledged job that he does.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
arkrud
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9/23/2007  1:46 PM
This article is obviously a bull...
Again, I don't know whether Thomas is guilty of sexual harassment. The jury will decide. But Thomas is guilty of believing it's somehow OK or not as dehumanizing for black men to berate black women. You can't think that way and be president of the Knicks.
You CAN think that way and be president of the Knicks. It's a fact.
I think you MUST think this way to be extended. I cannot see other reasons why IT was extended... No other accomplisments...

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Vmart
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9/23/2007  2:15 PM
This is BS, the media has basically lost it. Another witch hunt. This sickening what the media has come to these days. Overly sensative to anything these days.
Papabear
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9/23/2007  2:33 PM
Posted by arkrud:

This article is obviously a bull...
Again, I don't know whether Thomas is guilty of sexual harassment. The jury will decide. But Thomas is guilty of believing it's somehow OK or not as dehumanizing for black men to berate black women. You can't think that way and be president of the Knicks.
You CAN think that way and be president of the Knicks. It's a fact.
I think you MUST think this way to be extended. I cannot see other reasons why IT was extended... No other accomplisments...
Papabear Says

Isn't it funny how the the Majority of blacks see things one way and the majority of whites see it another way. Why is that?? Take like the O.J. case Take like Zeke's case Now I said the majority not all. When all those whites were getting off for hanging and killing blacks through out the south and in parts of the north. The KKKlan and the whites involved got off and no one said a word. If they did they got reprisals. Until we have equal justise in this country the majority of whites will see things one way and the majority of blacks will see it another way. Thats the way it is.
Hey maybe all of Presidents of basketball opperations should have been fired when they didn't allow blacks in the league. Thats was in all sports. Should they have been fired for being racists?

Papabear



[Edited by - Papabear on 09-23-2007 2:39 PM]
Papabear
TrueBlue
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9/23/2007  2:34 PM
Look at it this way from what I SAY UGH said it can be translated this way...

Calling someone out of their name(Black Woman) is wrong no matter who says it but if a White Man says it I have a problem with him and will discipline him accordingly(more than likely I'll fire him) if a Black Man says it I'll have to distinguish(more than likely I'll suspend him)

It would be like giving two different sentencing to two different people of race for the same crime committed. If people can't see how terribly wrong that is then they need to examine themselves. The fact he left tons of room for interpretation while apologizing, willingly offering up something that wasn't asked of him until after he made the initial distinctive statement is grounds for serious concern.

I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Papabear
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9/23/2007  2:46 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Look at it this way from what I SAY UGH said it can be translated this way...

Calling someone out of their name(Black Woman) is wrong no matter who says it but if a White Man says it I have a problem with him and will discipline him accordingly(more than likely I'll fire him) if a Black Man says it I'll have to distinguish(more than likely I'll suspend him)

It would be like giving two different sentencing to two different people of race for the same crime committed. If people can't see how terribly wrong that is then they need to examine themselves. The fact he left tons of room for interpretation while apologizing, willingly offering up something that wasn't asked of him until after he made the initial distinctive statement is grounds for serious concern.

I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.

Papabear Says

TrueBlue: What have you ever done to help black womans causes. I'll tell you some of the things Zeke did. He donated money to the abused woman cause. He is a great father to his daughters. He has donated money and spoke at many black colleges. He drafted David Lee. He got his degree and encourage all young kids to do the same. So stop Zeke hattin. Oh I'm wasting my breath.You are trying to start something about David Lee. Hey we all love Lee and so does Zeke, but I know where you were trying to take that.

Papabear

[Edited by - Papabear on 09-23-2007 2:49 PM]
Papabear
Bonn1997
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9/23/2007  2:58 PM
I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.
That is a legitimate question
TrueBlue
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9/23/2007  2:59 PM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Look at it this way from what I SAY UGH said it can be translated this way...

Calling someone out of their name(Black Woman) is wrong no matter who says it but if a White Man says it I have a problem with him and will discipline him accordingly(more than likely I'll fire him) if a Black Man says it I'll have to distinguish(more than likely I'll suspend him)

It would be like giving two different sentencing to two different people of race for the same crime committed. If people can't see how terribly wrong that is then they need to examine themselves. The fact he left tons of room for interpretation while apologizing, willingly offering up something that wasn't asked of him until after he made the initial distinctive statement is grounds for serious concern.

I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.

Papabear Says

TrueBlue: What have you ever done to help black womans causes. I'll tell you some of the things Zeke did. He donated money to the abused woman cause. He is a great father to his daughters. He has donated money and spoke at many black colleges. He drafted David Lee. He got his degree and encourage all young kids to do the same. So stop Zeke hattin. Oh I'm wasting my breath.You are trying to start something about David Lee. Hey we all love Lee and so does Zeke, but I know where you were trying to take that.

Papabear

[Edited by - Papabear on 09-23-2007 2:49 PM]


Irrelevant to the message he sent to the Black Woman. And Brandon Suhr strongly encouraged I SAY UGH to draft David Lee, he was looking at other prospects at the time. If I deposit money into your back account but carjack you and rob you at gunpoint in your home how much weight does my donation hold with you? And the drafting of Lee only goes so far, I liken it to the struggles that blacks have had to overcome such things as being assistant coaches in sports for so long before they are afforded the opportunity to be a head coach or a Top Exec of a company. Was Lee held back in some ways, was Lee getting too much love while I SAY UGH wasn't getting enough? Yeah I guess it's ok you'll let individuals play the game but what about when it comes to managing it and if mistakes are made why all the scrutiny? That's another reason many Blacks are upset at I SAY UGH because he'll make it that much harder for the next guy how he's conducted himself.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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9/23/2007  3:01 PM
Posted by Papabear:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Look at it this way from what I SAY UGH said it can be translated this way...

Calling someone out of their name(Black Woman) is wrong no matter who says it but if a White Man says it I have a problem with him and will discipline him accordingly(more than likely I'll fire him) if a Black Man says it I'll have to distinguish(more than likely I'll suspend him)

It would be like giving two different sentencing to two different people of race for the same crime committed. If people can't see how terribly wrong that is then they need to examine themselves. The fact he left tons of room for interpretation while apologizing, willingly offering up something that wasn't asked of him until after he made the initial distinctive statement is grounds for serious concern.

I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.

Papabear Says

TrueBlue: What have you ever done to help black womans causes. I'll tell you some of the things Zeke did. He donated money to the abused woman cause. He is a great father to his daughters. He has donated money and spoke at many black colleges. He drafted David Lee. He got his degree and encourage all young kids to do the same. So stop Zeke hattin. Oh I'm wasting my breath.You are trying to start something about David Lee. Hey we all love Lee and so does Zeke, but I know where you were trying to take that.

Papabear

[Edited by - Papabear on 09-23-2007 2:49 PM]

You forgot, it's not as much of a problem for him if a black man, such as himself or Starbury, calls a black woman a bitch. I assume that includes abused black women, his daughters and all black female college students. He sexually harrasses black women. His management style of choice is intimidation, which he uses with black women, white women and everybody else. He doesn't give a **** about those white season ticket holders. He thinks Larry Bird would have been just another good player if he were black. Oh I'm wasting my breath. You are trying to make him out to be some kind of saint while completely ignoring all of his disgusting behavior and words.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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9/23/2007  3:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
I'm beginning to wonder what was the real deal with David Lee last yr and why KVH was treated like he was.
That is a legitimate question

It's becoming very clear that there is a very simple (for Isiah) answer.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Ira
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9/23/2007  3:07 PM
He was being very frank. He didn't have to be. I don't know what he meant. Maybe he felt that when I white man calls a black woman that name, there was an element of racism involved.
TrueBlue
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9/23/2007  3:14 PM
Posted by Ira:

He was being very frank. He didn't have to be. I don't know what he meant. Maybe he felt that when I white man calls a black woman that name, there was an element of racism involved.


It's not his to determine if racial intent is behind the name calling. It is his right to determine if calling someone out of their name is wrong, no matter who is saying it. Besides no one wants to know what his racial distinguished opinions are but we do want him to act professionally and manage the team as such even if it means he has to fire the people he hired for acting in an unprofessional manner.

Just like I'm sure you and I could care less what our views are on racial profiling.


We need to stop apologizing for stupidity, we do it for every single thing done wrong here.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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9/23/2007  5:15 PM
Posted by Papabear:

Isn't it funny how the the Majority of blacks see things one way and the majority of whites see it another way. Why is that??

I could answer, but I'd be merely stating the obvious. Why tell you something that you already know? You and others are going to continue to ask these questions, until you learn to separate the past from the present. You don't have to forget, you don't have to 'get over it', but it would be nice if you could be fair in your judgments of today.

[Edited by - Solace on Sep 23 2007 5:16 PM]
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