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i'd still say no to artest
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Marv
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9/1/2007  11:27 AM
guy's just too much of a flake. tenure with teams gets shorter and shorter. beyond high maintenance and consistently falls apart in the clutch, on and off the court. no thanks.
AUTOADVERT
kam77
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9/1/2007  11:59 AM
Yep. And Renaldo Balkman is a pretty damn good alternative.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Silverfuel
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9/1/2007  12:01 PM
Its risky Marv, I know, but there might be a little hope left for him.

1) He is in a contract year (player option can be waived for an extension) so he will be a lot more under control.
2) We can have him for cheap
3) Artest was decent under Isiah in Indiana so he might be better again in NYC under Isiah.

So if we can have him for cheap, why shouldn't we roll the dice?

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 09-01-2007 12:03 PM]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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9/1/2007  12:03 PM
Posted by kam77:

Yep. And Renaldo Balkman is a pretty damn good alternative.
If we don't get Artest but play Balkman I can deal. Eff Artest, start Balkman.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Marv
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9/1/2007  12:21 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Its risky Marv, I know, but there might be a little hope left for him.

1) He is in a contract year (player option can be waived for an extension) so he will be a lot more under control.
2) We can have him for cheap
3) Artest was decent under Isiah in Indiana so he might be better again in NYC under Isiah.

So if we can have him for cheap, why shouldn't we roll the dice?

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 09-01-2007 12:03 PM]

silver his last year playing under isiah was when he was all over the place, fighting riley on he sidelines, smashing the monitor at msg, racking up record tech's and ejections. remember him quitting on the pacers in the playoffs a few years ago? screwing things up for the kings in the playoffs? notice how it takes teams less and less time to decide they're beter off without a player of all-star skills because of the detriment he ultimately brings to a team? I would bet that he costs us someone we would really rather not lose, slows down the development of players we'd rather develop and ultimately makes us sorry we acquired him.
BasketballJones
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9/1/2007  12:39 PM
Posted by Marv:

he was all over the place, fighting riley on he sidelines, smashing the monitor at msg, racking up record tech's and ejections.

This is exactly why we need him here in NY. Bring entertainment back to MSG!
https:// It's not so hard.
BasketballJones
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9/1/2007  12:43 PM
Artest Timeline: Ron-Ron's troubled past



Ron Artest brought baggage to Sacramento and he's created more since his January 2006 trade to the Kings. Here's a look at his laundry list of questionable behavior over the years:

1999-2000 season
Summer 1999: Before his rookie season, Artest applied for a part-time job at a Circuit City outlet in the Chicago area. But the Bulls stepped in before he could begin work ... and benefit from the employee discount.

Said Artest: "I thought it would be fun. And I had a friend who worked there."

Oct. 4, 1999: Fined $5,000 and sent home from the league's rookie orientation for missing a meeting. Bulls GM Jerry Krause said Artest overslept, while also having a friend in his room when visitors weren't allowed.

Ron Artest

Ron Artest has gotten to know David Stern quite well throughout the years.

2000-01 season
Feb. 21, 2001: Suspended for one game and fined $7,500 for fighting with Glenn Robinson during Bulls-Bucks game.

June 13, 2001: Broke two of Michael Jordan's ribs during a pickup game. "I'm not sure what happened," Artest said in the Chicago Daily Herald. "I was just guarding him. I was just trying to get position because he was posting me up. I don't even recall him stopping for a brief second. ... I read it in the paper and was like, 'Man, Mike's ribs got broke. How'd his ribs get broke?'"

2001-02 season
Feb. 19, 2002: Traded with Ron Mercer, Brad Miller and Kevin Ollie to Pacers for Jalen Rose, Travis Best, Norm Richardson and second-round pick.

May 25, 2002: Girlfriend Jennifer Palma, mother of one of Artest's sons, accused him of grabbing her around the neck and by the arm during an argument. No charges were filed, but she was given a protective order, which Artest allegedly violated several days later by calling her. Harassment and criminal contempt charges were later dropped.

ARTEST'S ACCOLADES
It's not all bad news when it comes to Ron Artest's history. Check out his career highlights:

• 2002-03 All-Defensive Second Team
• 2004 All-Star
• 2003-04 All-NBA Third Team
• 2003-04 All-Defensive First Team
• 2003-04 Defensive Player of the Year
• Ron Artest's complete player card

2002-03 season
Sept. 15, 2002: Artest, now reunited with Kimsha Hatfield, his girlfriend of eight years and mother of his two oldest children, called the police claiming that she hit and scratched him. (The two are now married.)

Dec. 19, 2002: Fined $10,000 for shoving the Mavericks' Raja Bell and failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection, which occurred after he was given his second technical foul.

Jan 4, 2003: Suspended three games and fined $35,000 for smashing video equipment after a loss to the Knicks at Madison Square Garden.

Jan. 30, 2003: Suspended four games (costing him $84,000) after confrontation with Heat coach Pat Riley on the sidelines during the game, then flipping his middle finger at the fans in Miami.

The incident boiled over in the fourth quarter when Artest scored and was fouled, and proceeded to flex his right arm while walking toward the Miami bench. Heat assistant coach Keith Askins exchanged words with Artest, who brushed against Riley. Riley, who was already hot because of an Artest flagrant foul on Caron Butler, began shouting with Artest and shoved him away.

Feb. 26, 2003: Suspended one game by Pacers for smashing a framed picture of himself in Conseco Fieldhouse.

March 9, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (sixth of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on Trail Blazers' Bonzi Wells.

March 13, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (seventh of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on 76ers' Eric Snow.

March 20, 2003: Suspended two games for flagrant foul on the Celtics' Paul Pierce five seconds into the game. Eighth flagrant foul called for automatic two game suspension.

April 3, 2003: Fined $20,000 for making an obscene gesture to the crowd in Cleveland.

2003-04 season
Feb. 16, 2004: Made his first All-Star appearance in style, by changing -- and mismatching -- sneakers throughout the game, in the hopes of landing a shoe contract.

Said Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein: "We've been in negotiations with several different companies for a few months now. We didn't feel it was right to just wear one brand."

March 19, 2004: Suspended one game for elbowing the Trail Blazers' Derek Anderson during game.

May 25, 2004: Fined $10,000 for making an obscene gesture during Eastern Conference Finals against the Pistons.

June 1, 2004: Took a shot at Richard Hamilton's masked face and was called for a flagrant foul late in the fourth quarter of Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals, which appeared to ignite the Pistons, who would eliminate the Pacers shortly thereafter.

Said Artest of the call: "(Hamilton's) so skinny that they [the referees] didn't see it," Artest said. "I just put up my hands on him."

Ron Artest

That's our Ron-Ron, back when he was hawking the CD.

2004-05 season
Nov. 9-10, 2004: Benched for two games after he asked for time off to promote the release of his upcoming rap album.

"When I decided I wanted to leave the game or take a month off, I'm a grown man," Artest told ESPN. "It doesn't make me crazy to want to do something that I want to do. ... You can be anything you want to be.

"I want to be a musician. I want to own my own label and I want to be MVP and win the championship of the NBA. I feel I can do anything I want to do. I have two goals this year. I want to go platinum or have my girls, Allure, go platinum, and win the NBA championship."

Nov. 19, 2004: Charged into the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills to attack a fan who had thrown a cup at him. Two days later, he was suspended for the remainder of the season. Artest pleaded no contest to assault and battery charges and was sentenced to a year of probation, community service, anger management counseling and a $250 fine. He missed 73 regular-season games and 13 playoff games in total, while also losing $4,995,000 in salary.

2005-06 season
Oc. 11, 2005: Said Artest on new season: "I'm going to continue playing hard and out of control, like a wild animal that needs to be caged in."

Oct. 2005: Appearing on the cover of the December issue of Penthouse, Artest said in the interview that he wanted to box Ben Wallace on pay-per-view.

Dec. 10, 2005: In a one-on-one interview with the Indianapolis Star, Artest suggests the Pacers trade him. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me. ... If I go to the West Coast, I would come back to New York after my contract is up. ... I would go to Cleveland. I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind LeBron James. There's a lot of players I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind."

In the interview, Artest also criticized coach Rick Carlisle, who would bench Artest for two games. "I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though. ... Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him."

Dec. 12, 2005: Placed on inactive list.

Dec. 15, 2005: Fined $10,000 for making public statements that he wanted to be traded. Said NBA senior vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan: "Public trade demands by players was a subject discussed at length during collective bargaining negotiations this summer. The damage caused by these kind of statements was commonly understood, as was the NBA's intention to hold players accountable for such statements going forward."

Dec. 17, 2005: Has a change of heart. Said Artest in the Indianapolis Star: "I should have been a man and spoken with coach [Rick Carlisle] about my differences with him. Yes, I would like to return to the team."

Jan. 1, 2006: Artest, whose self-titled CD hits stores this summer, told the New York Post that his New Year's resolution is to: "Teach math classes in elementary schools throughout the country. And, of course, I want to sell 10 million records."

Jan. 24, 2006: Traded to Kings for Stojakovic, but trade falls through because Artest does not want to play in Sacramento.

"We waited for about an hour and half," Pacers prez Donnie Walsh told ESPN.com. "By then, I knew there was trouble. Geoff got on the phone at about 5:30 p.m. and told me that the deal was off. That Ronnie's agent [Mark Stevens] had called and told him Ronnie didn't want to play there and then called the owners. It scared them both off.

"I told Geoff that I didn't think that Ronnie meant what his agent was saying and asked him if they'd wait until the morning for us to get this sorted out. ... I wasn't happy."

Jan. 25, 2006: Artest accepts trade to Kings after speaking with the Maloof brothers, Sacramento's owners.

Jan. 27, 2006: Kings lose in Artest's debut against Celtics. Said Artest before the game: "I'm going to play hard. That's all I can do. Things that were distractions to my team in the past -- I've learned from my mistakes, and I look forward to those things not happening."

March 17, 2006: Artest returns to Indiana for first time since trade, with his Kings 15-7 and in the playoff picture since his arrival in Sacramento.

2006-07 season
Feb. 8, 2007: Dogs owned by Artest spent a total of 77 nights at the pound since July because of poor care by their owner, costing the NBA star $1,942 in boarding and impound fees, county records show.

March 5, 2007: Artest out indefinitely with Kings after domestic violence arrest.

March 11, 2007: Artest apologizes, rejoins team.

March 21, 2007: Artest is charged with four misdemeanors charges -- battery and corporal injury to a spouse, false imprisonment, and dissuading a witness from reporting a crime -- stemming from the March 5 domestic dispute at his home. Each carries a maximum sentence of one year in prison.

March 22, 2007: Pleads not guilty to misdemeanor domestic dispute charges. A Placer County (Calif.) Superior Court judge also orders him to stay at least 100 yards away from his wife and children until further notice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2281289

He's perfect. Go get him Isiah!
https:// It's not so hard.
Allanfan20
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9/1/2007  1:18 PM
Gotto agree with Marv. Unless we KNOW we have the players to contend for a championship, which we don't, and we feel Artest is the final piece, which we don't, then we gotto pass up on him. He's a nuclear bomb and the Knicks are Hiroshima.

However, if the Kings are willing to give us Kevin Martin, in a deal involving Artest, then I'm on the phone.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Ira
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9/1/2007  1:40 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:


However, if the Kings are willing to give us Kevin Martin, in a deal involving Artest, then I'm on the phone.

If they'd include Kevin Martin, then we should fly out there.

codeunknown
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9/1/2007  6:21 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Artest Timeline: Ron-Ron's troubled past



Ron Artest brought baggage to Sacramento and he's created more since his January 2006 trade to the Kings. Here's a look at his laundry list of questionable behavior over the years:

1999-2000 season
Summer 1999: Before his rookie season, Artest applied for a part-time job at a Circuit City outlet in the Chicago area. But the Bulls stepped in before he could begin work ... and benefit from the employee discount.

Said Artest: "I thought it would be fun. And I had a friend who worked there."

Oct. 4, 1999: Fined $5,000 and sent home from the league's rookie orientation for missing a meeting. Bulls GM Jerry Krause said Artest overslept, while also having a friend in his room when visitors weren't allowed.

Ron Artest

Ron Artest has gotten to know David Stern quite well throughout the years.

2000-01 season
Feb. 21, 2001: Suspended for one game and fined $7,500 for fighting with Glenn Robinson during Bulls-Bucks game.

June 13, 2001: Broke two of Michael Jordan's ribs during a pickup game. "I'm not sure what happened," Artest said in the Chicago Daily Herald. "I was just guarding him. I was just trying to get position because he was posting me up. I don't even recall him stopping for a brief second. ... I read it in the paper and was like, 'Man, Mike's ribs got broke. How'd his ribs get broke?'"

2001-02 season
Feb. 19, 2002: Traded with Ron Mercer, Brad Miller and Kevin Ollie to Pacers for Jalen Rose, Travis Best, Norm Richardson and second-round pick.

May 25, 2002: Girlfriend Jennifer Palma, mother of one of Artest's sons, accused him of grabbing her around the neck and by the arm during an argument. No charges were filed, but she was given a protective order, which Artest allegedly violated several days later by calling her. Harassment and criminal contempt charges were later dropped.

ARTEST'S ACCOLADES
It's not all bad news when it comes to Ron Artest's history. Check out his career highlights:

• 2002-03 All-Defensive Second Team
• 2004 All-Star
• 2003-04 All-NBA Third Team
• 2003-04 All-Defensive First Team
• 2003-04 Defensive Player of the Year
• Ron Artest's complete player card

2002-03 season
Sept. 15, 2002: Artest, now reunited with Kimsha Hatfield, his girlfriend of eight years and mother of his two oldest children, called the police claiming that she hit and scratched him. (The two are now married.)

Dec. 19, 2002: Fined $10,000 for shoving the Mavericks' Raja Bell and failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection, which occurred after he was given his second technical foul.

Jan 4, 2003: Suspended three games and fined $35,000 for smashing video equipment after a loss to the Knicks at Madison Square Garden.

Jan. 30, 2003: Suspended four games (costing him $84,000) after confrontation with Heat coach Pat Riley on the sidelines during the game, then flipping his middle finger at the fans in Miami.

The incident boiled over in the fourth quarter when Artest scored and was fouled, and proceeded to flex his right arm while walking toward the Miami bench. Heat assistant coach Keith Askins exchanged words with Artest, who brushed against Riley. Riley, who was already hot because of an Artest flagrant foul on Caron Butler, began shouting with Artest and shoved him away.

Feb. 26, 2003: Suspended one game by Pacers for smashing a framed picture of himself in Conseco Fieldhouse.

March 9, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (sixth of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on Trail Blazers' Bonzi Wells.

March 13, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (seventh of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on 76ers' Eric Snow.

March 20, 2003: Suspended two games for flagrant foul on the Celtics' Paul Pierce five seconds into the game. Eighth flagrant foul called for automatic two game suspension.

April 3, 2003: Fined $20,000 for making an obscene gesture to the crowd in Cleveland.

2003-04 season
Feb. 16, 2004: Made his first All-Star appearance in style, by changing -- and mismatching -- sneakers throughout the game, in the hopes of landing a shoe contract.

Said Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein: "We've been in negotiations with several different companies for a few months now. We didn't feel it was right to just wear one brand."

March 19, 2004: Suspended one game for elbowing the Trail Blazers' Derek Anderson during game.

May 25, 2004: Fined $10,000 for making an obscene gesture during Eastern Conference Finals against the Pistons.

June 1, 2004: Took a shot at Richard Hamilton's masked face and was called for a flagrant foul late in the fourth quarter of Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals, which appeared to ignite the Pistons, who would eliminate the Pacers shortly thereafter.

Said Artest of the call: "(Hamilton's) so skinny that they [the referees] didn't see it," Artest said. "I just put up my hands on him."

Ron Artest

That's our Ron-Ron, back when he was hawking the CD.

2004-05 season
Nov. 9-10, 2004: Benched for two games after he asked for time off to promote the release of his upcoming rap album.

"When I decided I wanted to leave the game or take a month off, I'm a grown man," Artest told ESPN. "It doesn't make me crazy to want to do something that I want to do. ... You can be anything you want to be.

"I want to be a musician. I want to own my own label and I want to be MVP and win the championship of the NBA. I feel I can do anything I want to do. I have two goals this year. I want to go platinum or have my girls, Allure, go platinum, and win the NBA championship."

Nov. 19, 2004: Charged into the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills to attack a fan who had thrown a cup at him. Two days later, he was suspended for the remainder of the season. Artest pleaded no contest to assault and battery charges and was sentenced to a year of probation, community service, anger management counseling and a $250 fine. He missed 73 regular-season games and 13 playoff games in total, while also losing $4,995,000 in salary.

2005-06 season
Oc. 11, 2005: Said Artest on new season: "I'm going to continue playing hard and out of control, like a wild animal that needs to be caged in."

Oct. 2005: Appearing on the cover of the December issue of Penthouse, Artest said in the interview that he wanted to box Ben Wallace on pay-per-view.

Dec. 10, 2005: In a one-on-one interview with the Indianapolis Star, Artest suggests the Pacers trade him. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me. ... If I go to the West Coast, I would come back to New York after my contract is up. ... I would go to Cleveland. I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind LeBron James. There's a lot of players I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind."

In the interview, Artest also criticized coach Rick Carlisle, who would bench Artest for two games. "I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though. ... Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him."

Dec. 12, 2005: Placed on inactive list.

Dec. 15, 2005: Fined $10,000 for making public statements that he wanted to be traded. Said NBA senior vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan: "Public trade demands by players was a subject discussed at length during collective bargaining negotiations this summer. The damage caused by these kind of statements was commonly understood, as was the NBA's intention to hold players accountable for such statements going forward."

Dec. 17, 2005: Has a change of heart. Said Artest in the Indianapolis Star: "I should have been a man and spoken with coach [Rick Carlisle] about my differences with him. Yes, I would like to return to the team."

Jan. 1, 2006: Artest, whose self-titled CD hits stores this summer, told the New York Post that his New Year's resolution is to: "Teach math classes in elementary schools throughout the country. And, of course, I want to sell 10 million records."

Jan. 24, 2006: Traded to Kings for Stojakovic, but trade falls through because Artest does not want to play in Sacramento.

"We waited for about an hour and half," Pacers prez Donnie Walsh told ESPN.com. "By then, I knew there was trouble. Geoff got on the phone at about 5:30 p.m. and told me that the deal was off. That Ronnie's agent [Mark Stevens] had called and told him Ronnie didn't want to play there and then called the owners. It scared them both off.

"I told Geoff that I didn't think that Ronnie meant what his agent was saying and asked him if they'd wait until the morning for us to get this sorted out. ... I wasn't happy."

Jan. 25, 2006: Artest accepts trade to Kings after speaking with the Maloof brothers, Sacramento's owners.

Jan. 27, 2006: Kings lose in Artest's debut against Celtics. Said Artest before the game: "I'm going to play hard. That's all I can do. Things that were distractions to my team in the past -- I've learned from my mistakes, and I look forward to those things not happening."

March 17, 2006: Artest returns to Indiana for first time since trade, with his Kings 15-7 and in the playoff picture since his arrival in Sacramento.

2006-07 season
Feb. 8, 2007: Dogs owned by Artest spent a total of 77 nights at the pound since July because of poor care by their owner, costing the NBA star $1,942 in boarding and impound fees, county records show.

March 5, 2007: Artest out indefinitely with Kings after domestic violence arrest.

March 11, 2007: Artest apologizes, rejoins team.

March 21, 2007: Artest is charged with four misdemeanors charges -- battery and corporal injury to a spouse, false imprisonment, and dissuading a witness from reporting a crime -- stemming from the March 5 domestic dispute at his home. Each carries a maximum sentence of one year in prison.

March 22, 2007: Pleads not guilty to misdemeanor domestic dispute charges. A Placer County (Calif.) Superior Court judge also orders him to stay at least 100 yards away from his wife and children until further notice.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2281289

He's perfect. Go get him Isiah!

Most of that stuff wasn't even Ron's fault. Oooh, so his girlfriend doesn't like the rough stuff. Too bad, she's missing out. And Mike's ribs got broke? Big deal. Cry me a river. Eat your wheaties MJ. You've gotta show up to play against Ron.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
bobs3304
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9/1/2007  6:27 PM
Half that stuff would be applauded back in the 80's.


It ain't Artest's fault he plays like Bill Laimbeer. Blame the league.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
93BUICK
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9/1/2007  7:28 PM
No Ron Ron- really- please- let's just chill-
Let Riley deal w him- I like watching Ron but it's too much to take- I like guys who play hard but play for their coaches and their team- when Ron goes too far he's playing for himself and even w the killer D we can't take that on this fragile team
Plus- I really like the Balkster
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
4949
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9/1/2007  9:28 PM
Posted by Marv:

guy's just too much of a flake. tenure with teams gets shorter and shorter. beyond high maintenance and consistently falls apart in the clutch, on and off the court. no thanks.

Yeah, I think Artest as a Knick has come and gone long ago. But then again, Isiah kind of likes those types.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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9/1/2007  9:30 PM
I would bet that he costs us someone we would really rather not lose, slows down the development of players we'd rather develop and ultimately makes us sorry we acquired him.

Totally agree. We already have three potential head cases in suckbury, Zach and Nate. Why take the chance?
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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9/1/2007  9:34 PM
He's a nuclear bomb and the Knicks are Hiroshima.

Man' that's funny! Good one. Damn!
I'll never trust this' team again.
bobs3304
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9/1/2007  9:55 PM
If we still had Brown, maybe, but now........real risky.


Zbo is risky enough, and more expensive.


One ex-con at a time please.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Papabear
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9/2/2007  11:11 AM
Papabear says

It would be interesting bringing in Artest. Especially for you people who want Zeke to be gone. If Artest comes and he messes up Zeke will be history. That should make everyone happy.

Papabear
Papabear
BRIGGS
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9/2/2007  1:37 PM
Artest demands too many shots for a team that has a multitude of heavy FGA players as is. It\'s just going to be a problem unless you get him to conform to taking 6-7 shots within the flow.
RIP Crushalot😞
arkrud
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9/2/2007  1:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Artest demands too many shots for a team that has a multitude of heavy FGA players as is. It\'s just going to be a problem unless you get him to conform to taking 6-7 shots within the flow.

Why we have the strange problem of who is taking more or less shorts?
Why Suns, Spurs, Detroit, Dallas never see this as any kind of problem?
Who is open or in better position is taking the short. Team executes the offense and takes the option given by the opponent defense.
We are a conglomerate of pure assembled, mismatched, and purely coached talents. That’s why we counting the shorts not victories...


[Edited by - arkrud on 09-02-2007 1:50 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
i'd still say no to artest

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