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zach is a knick, what if he wasnt?
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EnySpree
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8/18/2007  11:45 AM
What if another east team picked him up?

Let's face it. Channing and Francis? Wtf was Portland thinking? Channing is a guy that is still young and can improve but picking up Francis? Then buying him out? Come on now. Anyway, Portland dance to the beat of a different drum.

Who should have zach on their roster? Hmmmm let me think. This is a tough one.

The clevland cavaliers!

Lebron was all alone and the only guy they seemed to go to was gooden. Gooden sucked in that role. He just isn't a 2nd option. If Portland was just gonna give away zach, they should have packed gooden and something else to Portland. The cava need to get the ball out of lebrons hands and make him play off the ball more. Lebron also needs a guy that is a natural scorer in the post and that's zach Randolph. Its a damn shame. The cavs could also use a true poin t guard to help get lebron and zach off. Brevin knight was available. So was Steve Blake. Its a damn shame.

Miami? Orlando? The bulls? Oh my.

Come on! The knicks didn't need zach as much as the rest. Now yeah the knicks got incredible inside now with David lee now on the bench? Wow. That's a tough match up for whoever plays the knicks. Good for us. Bad for them.

But damn man why didn't another team jump on him?

Don't tell me his off the court probs. The dude is 23/10. Youtube him. No way should he be a knick right now but I'm not complaining.

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babyKnicks
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8/18/2007  11:51 AM
you hit the nail on the head...zeke is a car salesman and he sold cap relief and future.

Zach wouldn't have worked on a team that already has a chemistry in place because of his ability to dominate not just one game, but a stretch of games...for that matter an entire season.

He'd coming off the bench anywhere else, or the key players in chemistry would have had to go.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
babyKnicks
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8/18/2007  11:52 AM
also goes to show, 7 footers are worth more than anything.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Nalod
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8/20/2007  5:35 PM
Eny, I think your discounting (perhaps_) that Frye is a valuable commidity and might really do well. I know your not high on him, but Blazers get to save some big money and still get a young player.

Zach for francis and no. 8 pick. I think they could have done better but they are thinking forward and don't want the kind of expiring garbage we usually understand to make a deal.

They took a dump. They dumped Zach.
Michael6835
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8/20/2007  6:54 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

you hit the nail on the head...zeke is a car salesman and he sold cap relief and future.

Zach wouldn't have worked on a team that already has a chemistry in place because of his ability to dominate not just one game, but a stretch of games...for that matter an entire season.

He'd coming off the bench anywhere else, or the key players in chemistry would have had to go.

I don't get your assessment that he would be coming off the bench. Show me one coach that will put a 23 and 10 player to come off the bench and I would say that coach is an idiot. I don't buy the nonsense about him being a chemistry killer, sometimes guys overstay their welcome and need a change of scenery in order to take it to the next level.

Frye is a good solid player, he should play well along side what should be a dominant big man in Oden. Frye will do well to spread the offense with his jumper and his lack of rebounding won't be so bad because Oden is all over that. Frye wasn't a good fit for this team once Eddy Curry became is focal point. Not saying Zach is a good fit either, but I am taking the wait and see approach.
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93BUICK
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8/20/2007  8:04 PM
I'm w you Eny- they needed to get rid of him but other teams really could have benifited from him - like Miami-

If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
arkrud
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8/20/2007  10:18 PM
Cavs will never take a risk to put guy like Zack with Lebron.
Raleys will never tolerate his defense
NY is the only place for Zack to play in the East
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Killa4luv
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8/20/2007  10:29 PM
Posted by babyKnicks:

He'd coming off the bench anywhere else, or the key players in chemistry would have had to go.
Zach would barely come off the bench on the all star team. Hes gonna start anywhere in the league. If the team already has a dominant 4, they'l play him at the 3. You dont put a guy like that on the bench, unles you are the Celtics of 86.
nixluva
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8/20/2007  10:59 PM
There really does seem to be an undercurrent of disrespect for how good Zach actually is. Portland is starting over and the best way to do that was to move Zach cuz he's a dominant player who is already in his prime. They want to develop their young players in an environment that is unencumbered.

This doesn't mean that Zach is a villain or a player that wouldn't be able to cut it as a starter on another team. If he was with the Cavs he would help LeBron, cuz he can provide scoring and distraction away from LeBron. It's no different here. He is a player that must be accounted for at all times and as such it will open things up for other players. Wherever he is, his man must stay with him, cuz if he doesn't it's over. LeBron was desparate for another player that could step up and really bring it. Zach had 15 games with 4 or more assists and another 11 games with 3 assists. Sure he had some games when he didn't get any assists, but If he's a black hole I didn't see any real evidence of it. It would seem to me that there are some teams that could use a guy like him.
arkrud
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8/21/2007  12:01 AM
Posted by nixluva:

There really does seem to be an undercurrent of disrespect for how good Zach actually is. Portland is starting over and the best way to do that was to move Zach cuz he's a dominant player who is already in his prime. They want to develop their young players in an environment that is unencumbered.

This doesn't mean that Zach is a villain or a player that wouldn't be able to cut it as a starter on another team. If he was with the Cavs he would help LeBron, cuz he can provide scoring and distraction away from LeBron. It's no different here. He is a player that must be accounted for at all times and as such it will open things up for other players. Wherever he is, his man must stay with him, cuz if he doesn't it's over. LeBron was desparate for another player that could step up and really bring it. Zach had 15 games with 4 or more assists and another 11 games with 3 assists. Sure he had some games when he didn't get any assists, but If he's a black hole I didn't see any real evidence of it. It would seem to me that there are some teams that could use a guy like him.

You are right. "there are some teams..."
The only question I always ask: Why us?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
JrZyHuStLa
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8/21/2007  12:34 AM
Orlando would be in the midst of a Finals run with this Zach, Rashard, and Dhow.

Miami would be right back on the map too with a healthy Wade and Zach.

NJ would certainly be a notch or two better, and possibly give any team a run for its money in the East.

Cleveland would probably be back in the Finals with him. I can't see them going back as of now.
EnySpree
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8/21/2007  6:27 AM
JrZyHuStLa - this is all I'm saying. Orlando to me stands out cuz they are a team that should have jumped as high as they could to get zach. He would have completed them. Howard, though long and athletic, is not a true offensive threat. Zach would have taken him back to earth and alllowed him to focus on getting rebounds and blocked shots. Not many teams that handle that type of power. Rashard would have a field day everyday.

Miami could have done the same thing cuz shaq looks regular now. Zach could have came in and took a huge load off shaqs shoulders.

Lebron has an opinion all his own and talks like a NBA salesman. Nothing zach can do that's gonna screw with him. If anything lebron probably would help zach more in the leadership department. Clevland has to get lebron a real running mate. Zach was it. They can't expect to ride lebron for the next 15 years without giving him someone to ride with.

What about Dallas? Talk of a team that needed a real post player.

Its just mind boggling to me. Zach is a really good player. How did isiah get him. Channing has good upside I guess but trade zach Randolph for him and a over priced guy you have to waive? It doesn't make sense.

What I get out of it is isiah wasn't bull****tin Portland. I think other teams were trying to pimp them. Isiah came with his offer and sold it. Portland didn't want to take this drama through the summer so they pulled the trigger. I'm thinking that Portland wanted oden and the rest to know who their teamates were early so they can think about the season.

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TheGame
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8/21/2007  9:50 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

JrZyHuStLa - this is all I'm saying. Orlando to me stands out cuz they are a team that should have jumped as high as they could to get zach. He would have completed them. Howard, though long and athletic, is not a true offensive threat. Zach would have taken him back to earth and alllowed him to focus on getting rebounds and blocked shots. Not many teams that handle that type of power. Rashard would have a field day everyday.

Miami could have done the same thing cuz shaq looks regular now. Zach could have came in and took a huge load off shaqs shoulders.

Lebron has an opinion all his own and talks like a NBA salesman. Nothing zach can do that's gonna screw with him. If anything lebron probably would help zach more in the leadership department. Clevland has to get lebron a real running mate. Zach was it. They can't expect to ride lebron for the next 15 years without giving him someone to ride with.

What about Dallas? Talk of a team that needed a real post player.

Its just mind boggling to me. Zach is a really good player. How did isiah get him. Channing has good upside I guess but trade zach Randolph for him and a over priced guy you have to waive? It doesn't make sense.

What I get out of it is isiah wasn't bull****tin Portland. I think other teams were trying to pimp them. Isiah came with his offer and sold it. Portland didn't want to take this drama through the summer so they pulled the trigger. I'm thinking that Portland wanted oden and the rest to know who their teamates were early so they can think about the season.

I think you hit it on the head. Other teams lowballed Portland and probably wanted them to take back a bad contract or two. IT offered Portaland a young PF with potential who they could watch grow for two more years before they have to pay him and Francis, who admittedly was a bad contract, but had only 2 years left on his deal and a buyout already negotiated. They saved the money they had to pay Jones and Dickau so the Francis buyout was not as much as it initially seemed when you consider that fact. You make a deal with Cavs for Gooden or Verajo and you have to pay those guys immediately $10 mil per season for average talent. You get Frye for $2 million for comparable talent with upside. It was likely the best deal Portland got and like you said, they did not want to drag the trade on all summer.
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Bippity10
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8/21/2007  9:54 AM
I don't know what to expect. Isiah could have done a great job of selling Frye etc and we got the deal of the century. Or Zach could be a mess and once again we were starphuched. I don't know and am willing to wait until the season starts to find out. I haven't seen enough of Zach to know one way or the other. All I know is that I see him score and rebound at an all-star level and yet he has never made the all-star team and was traded for "nothing". Once again I have no idea what to expect and can't wait for a season to start where we have a roster where we know exactly what to expect. I miss that.
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EnySpree
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8/21/2007  12:32 PM
Zack, dickau, Jones for channing, and Francis

What if this was a fantasy trade? Would this make it past a fantasy commisioner? How bout a league vote?

Going by last year? Can't call it. Francis was out most of the year and dickau and Jones barely played. Zach was hurt a while also but not nearly as long. Channing might as well have been hurt. I probably would have pushed it through if I was fantasy commish. Agree?
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JrZyHuStLa
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8/21/2007  3:58 PM
I certainly would've vetoed this bogus trade as a fantasy commish.

But this all comes down to making the playoffs for the Knicks. We can say "Orlando would've been this, Cleveland would've had a true running mate, Miami would do this" all we want, but IF the Knicks dont make the playoffs with this guy and Curry, there's going to be some serious questions to ask, as if there aren't enough already.

There's no doubt this trade was a no brainer. But we as fans can't keep harping about how we look on paper, look where that has taken us, absolutely nowhere. It's just time for this team to go out there and justify this rip off trade.
Bippity10
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8/21/2007  4:24 PM
Yes, it's time to start seeing results. No more we only one 33 games because we are young. The talent is there to win more than that today. Finally the win total has to match the talent. Or at least not be a total step back.
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nixluva
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8/21/2007  4:48 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Yes, it's time to start seeing results. No more we only one 33 games because we are young. The talent is there to win more than that today. Finally the win total has to match the talent. Or at least not be a total step back.

I'm comfortable with how things have been progressing. I saw growth last year and I'm not put off by the final record. This team should be ready now to get down to business. Last year we went 6-11, 7-9, 7-8 and 6-5 before the injuries. I believe this team was already moving in the right direction and that this move for Zach will only accelerate our progress.

I fully expect this team to be more in sync from the start than last year. Yeah there will be some adjusting to do with adding Zach, but I don't expect that to be as dramatic as the adjustment problems last year. He's the only really new piece in the rotation and what he does should slot right into the space Frye occupied.

We can't know for sure, but we should have a reasonable expectation that things should be better this year. 2nd yr under Isiah should help. Isiah himself being a bit sharper having learned some things from his mistakes last year. Better rotation this year with most guys having at least 1 year under their belts. The chemistry should be there from day one and get better as they move along. The one scary aspect is the defense. Until we see how they play on that end, it's gonna be a concern.
TheGame
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8/21/2007  4:48 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Yes, it's time to start seeing results. No more we only one 33 games because we are young. The talent is there to win more than that today. Finally the win total has to match the talent. Or at least not be a total step back.

I think everyone is in agreement that we need to see some wins this year. There is simply too much talent on this team not to win 42+ games.
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Bippity10
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8/21/2007  4:53 PM
Why is it that when stars like JKidd and Nash and go to teams those teams immediately turn it around, yet when "stars" come to the KNicks we have to wait for an adjustment period. Now don't get me wrong Zach is not Kidd or Nash but we added a 23-10 player to our roster that was already a borderline .500 team. If you don't start seeing results than it's time to re-evaluate what's going on, and where we are headed. Our core group(Marbs, Curry, Jamal, Lee, Q) have been together going on three years now. Balkman and Mardy are on year two. Nix is right, the only new piece that was added was Zach, if this affects us negatively than it's probably due to an imbalanced roster.
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