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There are VERY Real Reasons Why JO Could Be Traded to NY
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bobs3304
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8/14/2007  5:51 PM
I didn't share, but I already looked into this exclusively, and there ARE reasons for Indiana (and NY) to trade JO to NY, in spite of popular belief on this board...


1.) Zach is from Indiana. Plus he's a full 3 years younger than JO, and a fair replacement.

2.) Isiah was JO's mentor (and good friend), and could be a reason O'Neal pushes for New York.

3.) A trade of David Lee, Zach, Wilson Chandler*, Dickau, Fred Jones (ex-Pacer) for Troy Murphy and Jermaine O'Neal JUST works under the cap.

{don't pay attention to RGM trade checker; it's bogus - I did the math}

* Don't forget that Isiah waited to sign Chandler just long enough so that he could be traded again on August 28th...Coincidence?


4.) The 2 things that we need more than anything are - A.) Interior Defense, and B.) 3-Pt Shooting.

Troy Murphy is a 39% 3Pt. shooter, and JO is one of the best defenders in the league...


5.) Zach is making 15 mill. a year. By taking back both JO's, AND Murphy's contracts, Indiana ends up cutting down significant salary.

Now, I looked into it, and if they traded Jeff Foster's contract (2 years left) for an expiring (should be easy), then their overall payroll, considering a 2008 lottery draft pick, would be around 42 million.**

**Keep in mind they would have to cut some small salary players on their team, like Darrell Armstrong, and a few of the 2nd rounders they signed...



Now, given the cap will probly be around 53-55 million going into the summer of 2008, the Pacers would have 11-13 MILLION DOLLARS AVAILABLE IN CAP SPACE.

That would allow them to sign a Free Agent to a 5 year/75-85 million dollar deal.

And if you don't think that's a huge incentive, take a look at some of the Free Agents in 2008:


http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13008.shtml


They could throw 80 million at Andre Iguodala, or Emeka Okafor, Elton Brand, maybe Gilbert Arenas.....etc, etc.


Hell, they could even absorb a superstar salary in a trade...



All I have to say is........look out for August 28th fellas.


____________________________________________________________________________


Below is proof* that the trade works under the salary cap (since you'll notice it doesn't on RGM Tradechecker)



*{I'm using RGM's salary ratios}


O'Neal - 76.1
Murphy - 35.5
____________

= 111.6


Now, the NBA salary cap says that 2 teams trading over the cap must be within 25% of each sides total traded salary.

So 75%** of 111.6 = 83.7.


** Let's not forget Indiana would want to take the absolute minimum amount of salary back possible.



Let' see if the trade of Zach, Dickau, Jones, Chandler, and Lee is enough....

Zach - 51.5
Dickau - 11.5
Jones - 12.7
Chandler - 4.2
Lee - 3.8
_____________

= 83.7


So it JUST works under the salary cap conditions...


IN YO FACE RGM TRADE CHECKER!

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08-14-2007 5:52 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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8/14/2007  5:58 PM
The Human Element

Larry Bird

End of story
once a knick always a knick
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  6:06 PM
Posted by misterearl:

The Human Element

Larry Bird

End of story

I'm a huge Larry Bird fan, but not even he is stupid enough to ignore all those incentives just for a 20 year old grudge...

He's just not that type of guy.


Also let's not forget he might not be calling all the shots anymore, ever since that GS fiasco.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08-14-2007 6:12 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
misterearl
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8/14/2007  6:24 PM
bobs - Larry Bird is EXACTLY the kinda guy to hold a 20 year grudge.

How does he refuse to even talk to his very own daughter for years?

And you think Isiah is the smarmy one. Yeah right.
once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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8/14/2007  6:26 PM
I'm not sure that Isiah is interested in making a deal like this. I can imagine him making a deal for Artest cuz he fits a need. JO is a step up from Zach, on the defensive side. I don't think isiah would have any interest in Murphy. Then you have the Bird issue as well as being in the same Conference. I don't have much faith that Bird is willing to do a deal within the Conf. and even less so with Isiah.
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  6:32 PM
Ok, I just realized I made a boo boo on the Pacer salary.


My numbers were off...Indiana wouldn't have cap space until the summer of 2009, so in 2 years.

It's not a huge problem, but it makes things a little less attractive for Indiana I guess...but hey, atleast they wouldn't have to cut Foster?




** Oh, and about Larry and Isiah......the whole daughter thing is complicated. Let's stick to talkin business.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
misterearl
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8/14/2007  6:46 PM
Bidness Is Bidness

bobs - not really, "the daughter thing" ain't all that complicated. It is a perfect window to a person's character.

You think it's more skanky to be accused of harassment by an unhappy employee... or deny your flesh and blood any contact as a parent?

just curious
once a knick always a knick
bigbeast
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8/14/2007  6:47 PM
Seems like the Knicks are giving up a bit too much to me. Of late, Oneal and Murph have been a ittle injury prone and that has to come into account when considering the value of these players moving forward.

I know Oneal is a better defensive player than Zach, but offensively and on the boards, its very close. Murphy is going to other way, so throwing in Lee and Chandler is too much for me.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
SupremeCommander
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8/14/2007  6:50 PM
I love how you claim you did the math and this trade works... yet you still use the RGM trade checker ratios? What did you smoke today?

Anyway, you're "business analysis" or whatever you want to use is totally whacked.

First off, you don't use ratios when calculating whether or not a trade works or not, you use this year's salary.

Randolph 13.3
Jones 3.3
Dickau 2.8
Lee 1
NY's package = 20.4

O'Neal 19.7
Murphy 9.2
IN's = 28.9

Second, salaries have to be within 25% of each other.

NY *1.25 = 25.5, which does not come within 28.9

OR

IN *0.75 = 21.675, which does not come within 20.4


Realistically, the RGM trade checker threw it in YOUR FACE, because you clearly have no idea how or why trades get done in the NBA.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  7:13 PM
Just checked my math again (using the actual salaries)...


The trade I proposed totals up to 21.43 Million.


75% of JO + Murphy (28.9 Million) = 21.68 Million.


If you account for the 100,000 you're allowed by the salary cap rules, I was only off by 150,000 dollars. So you could just sub Nate Robinson in for Wilson Chandler, and call it a day.


But yea, according to Supreme Cumbucket, I have no idea what I'm talking about, b/c ratios "don't work"...


Welp.......maybe it's just a coincidence that they do.


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08-14-2007 7:16 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
SupremeCommander
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8/14/2007  7:22 PM
I forgot to add Wilson Chandler into the mix... there you go. Then that just makes the trade worse from a basketball personnel perspective than it already was.

But, hey, at least aren't just making up salary cap rules as you go now, good job.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  7:23 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I forgot to add Wilson Chandler into the mix... there you go. Then that just makes the trade worse from a basketball personnel perspective than it already was.

But, hey, at least aren't just making up salary cap rules as you go now, good job.



So are you saying it worked with him, or are you just being a sarcastic dick?


I can't tell...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
4949
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8/14/2007  7:39 PM
Posted by misterearl:

The Human Element

Larry Bird

End of story



I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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8/14/2007  7:40 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Ok, I just realized I made a boo boo on the Pacer salary.


I'll never trust this' team again.
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  7:46 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I forgot to add Wilson Chandler into the mix... there you go. Then that just makes the trade worse from a basketball personnel perspective than it already was.

But, hey, at least aren't just making up salary cap rules as you go now, good job.



Btw, Mr. Supreme Cumbucket, even if you add Nate Robinson on RGM Tradechecker, it STILL doesn't work.


So whose wrong now?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
SupremeCommander
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8/14/2007  9:16 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I forgot to add Wilson Chandler into the mix... there you go. Then that just makes the trade worse from a basketball personnel perspective than it already was.

But, hey, at least aren't just making up salary cap rules as you go now, good job.

Btw, Mr. Supreme Cumbucket, even if you add Nate Robinson on RGM Tradechecker, it STILL doesn't work.


So whose wrong now?


Dude, you don't get it, at all. THIS IS SIMPLE MATH.

Let's use what I originally thought the trade was: Lee + Dickau + Jones + Randolph = 20.9 million * 1.25 = 25.5 million.

28.9 million - 25.5 million = 3.9 million

No one on the Knicks matches 3.9 million in salary, so let's take out Jones, which makes the deficit 7.1 million, which equals Malik Rose's salary for this year. Meaning in mathematic terms, swapping Rose for Fred Jones makes the trade work. (edit: please note that I am combining salary and discounted salary here, which is technically incorrect, but will work IN THIS INSTANCE.)

Rose 7.1
Dickau 2.8
Lee 1
Randolph 13.3
NY = 24.2
24.2 * 1.25 = 30.25, which is within 28.9

To answer your earlier question, I was being sarcastic. And you weren't off by $150,000... you were off by $2.15 million. The Knicks need 2.15 million in discounted salary to make the trade work, because... well, never mind. I already explained it. What, you don't understand what is going on here? Do you need me to walk you through basic percentages? You don't understand which terms work for which side?

But Supreme Cumbucket was pretty good... good for you.

(the additional edits were for some of my own incorrect math)


[Edited by - supremecommander on 08-14-2007 9:31 PM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
bobs3304
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8/14/2007  10:53 PM
OK, I just consulted the Coon rules, and I believe I have to make a public apology.

I think I was getting the rules wrong.

Well....I guess you learn something new everyday.


I had to figure it out myself, but here's basically the rules for 2 teams over the cap:


{JO + Murphy Salary} / 1.25 = 23.12 + $100,000......THAT'S the minimum salary NY can send out.

And the most Indiana could take back is {JO + Murphy Salary} x 1.25 = 36.125 + $100,000


Of course it's too bad I had to learn myself instead of from a gracious, informative, well-spoken poster.



All I got was Cumbucket.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08-14-2007 11:16 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
izybx
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8/15/2007  4:02 AM
I dont know why people are being such d***s on this board, at least bobs is spending his time finding something new to talk about at a time when there is absolutely nothing going. If you guys dont like what he posted, then dont waste your time opening his threads anymore.

Bobs, whether or not your math works out, nice try on doing some research.

I guess some people have such pathetic lives that the have to gratify themselves by insulting people on a message board. Golden rule, if you wouldnt act like a ******* to his face, then dont act like one on a keyboard.

[Edited by - izybx on 15-08-2007 04:02 AM]
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
TMS
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8/15/2007  9:40 AM
RealGM is used by real GM's to determine if trades work or not... the Trade Checker even takes into account BYP status when determining if trades work or not.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JohnWallace44
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8/15/2007  6:46 PM
why would you get rid of JO so that you had a chance to sign Iguadala?
Isn't that a net loss?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
There are VERY Real Reasons Why JO Could Be Traded to NY

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