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why don't more teams frontload contracts?
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djsunyc
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7/12/2007  12:40 PM
the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.
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islesfan
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7/12/2007  12:42 PM
Depends on cap space.
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djsunyc
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7/12/2007  12:48 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Depends on cap space.

but you can frontload a s&t too.
TheGame
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7/12/2007  12:56 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


This is actually a smart practice that I think more teams are trying to do. The problem is that the player has to agree and most players want to make more as the deal goes on. Additionally, you have the issue of cap space at the start of the deal.

Another option would be for teams to not increase the yearly salary. Give a guy $15 million for 5 years and let him make $15 mil every year. As the cap increases, the team gets more cap space. If you are making $15 millions it is not like inflation is really bothering your ability to maintain your lifestyle. But again, you have to get the player to agree, which is a tough sell.
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TrueBlue
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7/12/2007  12:57 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


It depends on the player also. Some players don't like going through the course of their contract depreciating, while they are out performing it.
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djsunyc
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7/12/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


This is actually a smart practice that I think more teams are trying to do. The problem is that the player has to agree and most players want to make more as the deal goes on. Additionally, you have the issue of cap space at the start of the deal.

Another option would be for teams to not increase the yearly salary. Give a guy $15 million for 5 years and let him make $15 mil every year. As the cap increases, the team gets more cap space. If you are making $15 millions it is not like inflation is really bothering your ability to maintain your lifestyle. But again, you have to get the player to agree, which is a tough sell.

but why is paxson able to convince them?

you get more money now, the more money you can invest and the more you can earn over the course of the deal.

paxson has this capologist who's apparently brilliant and has suggested all these contract strategies to help keep them out of luxury tax land.
EnySpree
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7/12/2007  1:00 PM
Yeah man it just makes more freakin sense from a business standpoint but I'm sure the NBA players would prefer the pay scale to increase rather than decrease.

A fag like francis would be easier to move if his pay scaled down. NBA teams take for granted that these players will be like the players of old. These bums just want the money. They don't have the pride nor the drive to be great ball players. Times have changed.
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TrueBlue
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7/12/2007  1:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


This is actually a smart practice that I think more teams are trying to do. The problem is that the player has to agree and most players want to make more as the deal goes on. Additionally, you have the issue of cap space at the start of the deal.

Another option would be for teams to not increase the yearly salary. Give a guy $15 million for 5 years and let him make $15 mil every year. As the cap increases, the team gets more cap space. If you are making $15 millions it is not like inflation is really bothering your ability to maintain your lifestyle. But again, you have to get the player to agree, which is a tough sell.

but why is paxson able to convince them?

you get more money now, the more money you can invest and the more you can earn over the course of the deal.

paxson has this capologist who's apparently brilliant and has suggested all these contract strategies to help keep them out of luxury tax land.

Paxson is able to convince them because of the kind of players he has or is dealing with. He has young players who want to get paid a good chunk of change but don't have high market interest around the league. So what he does is sell them on giving them a fair market deal but he offers a front load so they feel good at the time of signing the deal.

I don't think he could pull that off with say a Vince Carter, Lewis, Billups
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VDesai
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7/12/2007  1:20 PM
It's player perception. Players want to make more money every year.
Panos
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7/12/2007  1:27 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


This is actually a smart practice that I think more teams are trying to do. The problem is that the player has to agree and most players want to make more as the deal goes on. Additionally, you have the issue of cap space at the start of the deal.

Another option would be for teams to not increase the yearly salary. Give a guy $15 million for 5 years and let him make $15 mil every year. As the cap increases, the team gets more cap space. If you are making $15 millions it is not like inflation is really bothering your ability to maintain your lifestyle. But again, you have to get the player to agree, which is a tough sell.

but why is paxson able to convince them?

you get more money now, the more money you can invest and the more you can earn over the course of the deal.

paxson has this capologist who's apparently brilliant and has suggested all these contract strategies to help keep them out of luxury tax land.

Exactly, DJ. Any idiot should realize that more money sooner is better. Money in the bank. You never know what's going to happen in 5 years! Maybe you decide to retire! Maybe the league blows up! (Unlikely, but who knows, why take a chance: look at the NHL)
MS
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7/12/2007  1:36 PM
Some of you guys serious with your reasoning? The money is the same you get more upfront as opposed to later so your not liable if the player gets injured to pay more later and it's easier to trade them......

This is one ****ing stupid conversation, how do you convince a player to get money that he can put in the bank and watch it appreciate? 60 million is 60 million your not worth less if you take more upfront
Andrew
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7/12/2007  1:40 PM
I wonder if other organizations don't want to take the $$ hit by giving the player more money earlier. A cash rich NY team shouldn't care as much, but I could see some penny pinching teams not wanting to do it.
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Solace
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7/12/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by djsunyc:

the bulls have been putting this in practice the past 2 offseasons:

kirk: $11, $10, $9.5, $9, $8
wallace: $16, $15.5, $14.5, $14
nocioni: $9, $8.5, $7.5, $6.9, $6.2

these are infinitely better structured deals as the players are actually easier to move as they get older.


It depends on the player also. Some players don't like going through the course of their contract depreciating, while they are out performing it.

It actually could work out better for the player. If they save the extra money early, they can get interest ontop of it from the bank.

I agree that frontloading is a strategy that should be employed more.
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VDesai
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7/12/2007  2:27 PM
How many NBA players get the time value of money. More money up front = more money spent up front. Less money later = "why am I being paid less than before? Renogotiate!"

[Edited by - vdesai on 07-12-2007 2:27 PM]
islesfan
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7/12/2007  2:44 PM
Posted by VDesai:

It's player perception. Players want to make more money every year.

If they were smart, they'd want the bulk of the money up front.

It shouldn't take much to convince a player that it's to their financial advantage to get as much of their money up front.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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7/12/2007  2:47 PM
I still think that cap space is the primary reason why teams can or can't do it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
franco12
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7/12/2007  2:49 PM
With Wallace- it was one thing since he is getting up there in years- for Heinrich-

I suppose what Paxson does is get player & agent to agree to the amount & years on the deal, and then they reverse engineer them.

Slick, and we should likewise try this.
newyorknewyork
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7/12/2007  4:07 PM
When it comes to free agents its harder. If you front load the contract you will need that 15-17mil available instead of the 9-10mil. Say you do have 17mil available. Instead of signing 2 free agents you can only get one.

But when it comes to resigning your own players it should be easier to do.

So the Key as allways should be to focus on the draft and draft well.

NBA should allow teams to add incentives to contracts.
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Andrew
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7/12/2007  4:08 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

NBA should allow teams to add incentives to contracts.

I believe they do.
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Pharzeone
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7/12/2007  4:11 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

NBA should allow teams to add incentives to contracts.

I believe they do.

They are in almost every NBA contract. Both Lewis and Wallace signed two yesterday. Eddy Curry is signed to one.
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why don't more teams frontload contracts?
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