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Observations from last night's game
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TheGame
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7/10/2007  10:02 AM
1) Despite all his work and the coaching staffs' efforts, Nate is simply not a pg. The guy will never be able to have a high a/t rate because he still plays too out of control. He is trying to pass more and he clearly is a top-notch scorer, but IT needs to stop the pg experiment now and just focus on letting Nate be a scoring guard. Pair him up with Collins and we should not get hurt defensively with him on the court.

2) Balkman needs to get at least 25 minutes per game this season. The guy still has no jumpshot but he does everything else so well that it does not really matter. With Curry and Zach playing only so-so defense at best, we need a SF who can keep people out of the paint and help block some shots. Moreover, his superior rebounding will compensate for Curry. Unless Jeffries has magically learned how to shoot over the summer, Balkman and Q need to take most of those minutes.

3) Chandler is not a bust. That much is clear. But his offensive game is still fairly raw. The one great thing is that he seems to be a decent shooter and appears willing to play defense. He had a solid all-around performance but I don't see him playing much this year barring alot of injuries. However, it was just one game and we will have to see how he plays over the course of the summer and preseason.

4) Nichols is everything he was advertised to be. I find it hard to believe this guy was drafted so late in the second round. He showed that he could play decent defense. But more importantly, he showed that his shooting ability was no fluke. This kid can really shoot the ball and clearly has 3pt range. I think BRIGGS compared him to Rashual Butler. He has a similar body and playing style but I think this kid is a better athlete and defender than Butler and has a higher ceiling. He should definitely make the team and is likely to become a solid role player for us in the next year or two.

5) Morris is an active big man and who looks like he can rebound and block some shots. His offense needs alot of work but he has potential to be a rotation player for us in the future. He probably is as good as James right now (although he is smaller than James), so he definitely should get some minutes this season.

[Edited by - thegame on 07-10-2007 10:05 AM]
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Pharzeone
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7/10/2007  10:17 AM
The Knicks need more "raw" players like Chandler. A guy who can shoot, take his man of the dribble, bring up the rock and pass in the post to his big man. Yeah, he is raw.
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martin
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7/10/2007  10:22 AM
Posted by TheGame:

1) Despite all his work and the coaching staffs' efforts, Nate is simply not a pg. The guy will never be able to have a high a/t rate because he still plays too out of control. He is trying to pass more and he clearly is a top-notch scorer, but IT needs to stop the pg experiment now and just focus on letting Nate be a scoring guard. Pair him up with Collins and we should not get hurt defensively with him on the court.

this one is tough for me. Nate is clearly not a PG right now and may never be. But, is he getting better in that department? Any progress at all? More under control? The dude has been a SG his whole life and has been asked to switch gears.

Let's say that the first year in the league was a wash cause he was getting used to the NBA. Was he more under control last year? Yes. Good enough? No.

Does he play enough D? No.

Can he continue to get better at the PG position? I think yes. The first year in the league Nate got blocked a million times going to the basket or was caught in the air not knowing what to do and we saw that corrected some last season.

The PG position is the hardest to learn and even harder for a natural born scorer.
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MS
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7/10/2007  10:27 AM
Observations

1) Isiah doesn't care about doing what's best for the team. Balkman will not see 25 minutes even though it would have probably got the knicks to the playoffs last season if Jefferies never stepped onto the court.

2) Nate shoots a much higher percentage from downtown than JC, but Crawford will be the starting two when he should be coming off the bench in favor of Q to make up for the awful defense of Zach and Eddy

3) Our team defense will suffer do to the following numbers. JC 35 Zach 35 Eddy 35. And Lee will have to fight to get 25 minutes this year with all the additions, the collective brain power of our starting unit will equal a 7 year old.

4) The Knicks will again lead the league in turnovers and give up the most points in the league

5) Better players will suffer because of bad front offices moves, and the coach can't distinguish one job from the other.
RemBee76
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7/10/2007  10:31 AM
Wow, MS, you got all that after last night?

I think you are reading too much into a summer league game.
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TheGame
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7/10/2007  10:31 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TheGame:

1) Despite all his work and the coaching staffs' efforts, Nate is simply not a pg. The guy will never be able to have a high a/t rate because he still plays too out of control. He is trying to pass more and he clearly is a top-notch scorer, but IT needs to stop the pg experiment now and just focus on letting Nate be a scoring guard. Pair him up with Collins and we should not get hurt defensively with him on the court.

this one is tough for me. Nate is clearly not a PG right now and may never be. But, is he getting better in that department? Any progress at all? More under control? The dude has been a SG his whole life and has been asked to switch gears.

Let's say that the first year in the league was a wash cause he was getting used to the NBA. Was he more under control last year? Yes. Good enough? No.

Does he play enough D? No.

Can he continue to get better at the PG position? I think yes. The first year in the league Nate got blocked a million times going to the basket or was caught in the air not knowing what to do and we saw that corrected some last season.

The PG position is the hardest to learn and even harder for a natural born scorer.

I want to see Nate succeed but I just don't see him being a pg on a winnning team. His game is too unpredictable. He would essentially have to change his entire game to be the type of floor leader we are looking for and IT has already said he is not going to ask Nate to change his entire game. If you need Nate to bring the ball up the court a few times a game, he can handle that. But if you are going to ask him to be your primary backup pg, I think you are asking for trouble. The guy is good at being a scoring guard and we have a 6-6 pg in Collins. Why not let Nate be who he is while still teaching him to play more under control rather than trying to turn the guy into a pg, which he clearly has problems grasping. I agree it is still early in his career but at the same time, this is year 3 and based on what I saw last night, he has not progressed much as a pg. He has progressed as a scorer and is really good at that, but creating offense for others and running the offense are still things he does not look like he is comfortable doing on a consistent basis. I guess we will see as the summer league and preseason goes on because I am sure IT is going to give Nate every opportunity to show what he can do before the season starts.
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JohnWallace44
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7/10/2007  10:33 AM
our turnovers should go down because of Zach "the black hole"

I mean, if there's no passing, how do you turn it over right?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Nalod
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7/10/2007  10:33 AM
I think we all want to like Nate becasue of his crazy athletic ability and enthusiasm. But as a 5'9 player who will lose some of his hops as wear and tear become the norm, and having to play thru injury it would extend his career. Andt being a playmaker (even a shootfirst one) still requires a resonable B-Ball IQ which is a prerequisite to being even a decent floor general and having some shread of leadership qualities. Nate has little to no leadership qualities even if you dressed him up on Halloween as one.
djsunyc
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7/10/2007  11:43 AM
Posted by Nalod:

I think we all want to like Nate becasue of his crazy athletic ability and enthusiasm. But as a 5'9 player who will lose some of his hops as wear and tear become the norm, and having to play thru injury it would extend his career. Andt being a playmaker (even a shootfirst one) still requires a resonable B-Ball IQ which is a prerequisite to being even a decent floor general and having some shread of leadership qualities. Nate has little to no leadership qualities even if you dressed him up on Halloween as one.



nate's fro was all jacked up, he reminded me of this guy:
franco12
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7/10/2007  12:34 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I think we all want to like Nate becasue of his crazy athletic ability and enthusiasm. But as a 5'9 player who will lose some of his hops as wear and tear become the norm, and having to play thru injury it would extend his career. Andt being a playmaker (even a shootfirst one) still requires a resonable B-Ball IQ which is a prerequisite to being even a decent floor general and having some shread of leadership qualities. Nate has little to no leadership qualities even if you dressed him up on Halloween as one.

I disagree about leadership- Nate is a lot of things- and I won't disagree about low bb iq- but I do think his enthusiasm, his desire to win, has leadership qualities to it.

During LB's season, Nate was the only guy who seemed to care some games- he would come in when we were down 20, hit a bunch of three pointers and the crowd got into it.

I think the problem is not enough of our other players care enough that when they see Nate busting his butt hustling amongst players that have 1+ foot on him, that they don't reflect on their poor effort and say- if Nate isn't giving up, then neither should I.

I'll wager money that if you put five nates and five eddy curry's on the court, the five nates would win.
TheGame
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7/10/2007  2:44 PM
Here is nbadraftnet's take on last nights game:

(1-0) New York Knicks 87 - (0-2) Seattle Supersonics 74
Boxscore

Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman put on quite a show picking up the slack as the fans were expecting to see more from Kevin Durant. Durant struggled mightily shooting just 4-19 but was able to bring his scoring number up to 18 with a flurry in the final quarter with a number of trips to the line (8-8).

Robinson was the star of the game with 19 points and 7 assists. He fed his teammates for a number of easy baskets and sparked the fast break. His best shot was a spinning 5 foot jumper which found the net.

Durant couldn't get things going in the first half with just 5 points. He had two lay in attempts blocked by Randolph Morris and was riddled by the stifling defense of Renaldo Balkman. In the second half he found success driving to the rim as the smaller Knick players had no choice but to foul him. Durant hit a few shots right over defenders but his shot was not finding net the way he normally does. Durant is such a scorer, he rolls out of bed with 18 points, but tonight he had to scratch and claw to get there.

With Durant struggling, Jeff Green was much more impressive with 17 points on 5-12 shooting. Green's most impressive drive was when he took on the defender and got fouled and dunked right over him using his strength. Green created a few shots for himself with pretty moves and it's apparent his first game jitters didn't carry over.

Demitris Nichols was very impressive doing some Durant like things on the floor. With Durant struggling, it was Nichols hitting outside 3 pointers and running the floor and dunking in traffic. Nichols has under rated athletic ability and is a real marksman from the perimeter. He has a chance to end up a better pick than Knicks first rounder Wilson Chandler when all is said and done.

Chandler was solid, guarding Durant a number of times and doing a solid job as well as hitting 5-10 for 12 points. His speed is tremendous even on the NBA level so if he works hard there's no reason he can't be a solid pro.

Randolph Morris had a solid game as well scoring 10 points on 5-7 shooting. His short arms keep him from converting on plays that bigger centers might make, but he finally seems to be in great shape and running the floor better than ever. His blocks on Durant were a factor as well.
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Andrew
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7/10/2007  2:58 PM
Interesting how the nbadraft recap thought Nate was a star of the game. I was not happy with his performance. I guess I was expecting more PG type play out of him.

Balk showed what he showed last year, which is good. Hopefully his shooting will come around.

Was impressed that none of the rookies looked like they had a big learning curve. All seemed comfortable with the speed of play.
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Allanfan20
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7/10/2007  3:03 PM
I actually kind of liked what I saw from Nate. Maybe just a couple of isolated plays but he played within' the offense and didn't force a ton.

He is still a SG btw, which is fine. However, we gotto decide if that's fine enough to keep him or not. I'd like to see him stay, but I have a feeling Isiah is still on Marbury's jock.
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MS
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7/10/2007  3:09 PM
summer league but 7to's from nate is never a good sign, which mirrors his assist to to ration but its summer league and he is getting familiar with guys
Nalod
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7/10/2007  4:24 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Nalod:

I think we all want to like Nate becasue of his crazy athletic ability and enthusiasm. But as a 5'9 player who will lose some of his hops as wear and tear become the norm, and having to play thru injury it would extend his career. Andt being a playmaker (even a shootfirst one) still requires a resonable B-Ball IQ which is a prerequisite to being even a decent floor general and having some shread of leadership qualities. Nate has little to no leadership qualities even if you dressed him up on Halloween as one.

I disagree about leadership- Nate is a lot of things- and I won't disagree about low bb iq- but I do think his enthusiasm, his desire to win, has leadership qualities to it.

During LB's season, Nate was the only guy who seemed to care some games- he would come in when we were down 20, hit a bunch of three pointers and the crowd got into it.

I think the problem is not enough of our other players care enough that when they see Nate busting his butt hustling amongst players that have 1+ foot on him, that they don't reflect on their poor effort and say- if Nate isn't giving up, then neither should I.

I'll wager money that if you put five nates and five eddy curry's on the court, the five nates would win.

Five Nates (good name for a band!) is a swarm.

Five Eddys is a herd.

5 Zachs is orgy.

5 Marburys is a towel rack.

5 JJ1s is a buffett line.

5 Isiahs is a pack of lies.

5 Dolans is a keg party.
Nalod
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7/10/2007  4:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Nalod:

I think we all want to like Nate becasue of his crazy athletic ability and enthusiasm. But as a 5'9 player who will lose some of his hops as wear and tear become the norm, and having to play thru injury it would extend his career. Andt being a playmaker (even a shootfirst one) still requires a resonable B-Ball IQ which is a prerequisite to being even a decent floor general and having some shread of leadership qualities. Nate has little to no leadership qualities even if you dressed him up on Halloween as one.



nate's fro was all jacked up, he reminded me of this guy:



This place is too serious today!

Dress a midget up as Hitler and nobody even bats an eye!
bigbeast
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7/10/2007  4:49 PM
Once people (and coaches) stop trying to force/and label Nate as pg and realize that Nate is just a really good guard, who can make plays, people will stop being dissapointed with him.

He is who he is. A scoring playmaking guard. Its up to Isiah to figure out a way to use Nates talents and skills to help this team. Stop trying to force him to be what he is not.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 10-07-2007 4:49 PM]
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