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Double post players that has worked on other NBA teams...
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bigbeast
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7/9/2007  2:20 PM
DISCLAIMER: The players I'm about to mention were better defenders than Curry/Zach. This thread is just to show how both can share the paint offensively.


Robert Parish
86-87
pts 17.5
fga 1057

87-88
pts 14.3
fga 750

Kevin Mchale
86-87
pts 26.1
fga 1307

87-88
pts 22.6
fga 911


Larry Nance
90-91
pts 19.2
fga 1211

91-92
pts 17.0
fga 1033

Brad Daugherty
90-91
pts 21.6
fga 1155

91-92
21.5
fga 1010



Ralph Sampson
84-85
pts 22.1
fga 1499

85-86
pts 18.9
fga 1280

Hakeem Olajuwon
84-85
pts 20.6
fga 1258

85-86
pts 23.5
fga 1188

Larry Johnson
92-93
pts 22.1
fga 1385

94-95
pts 18.8
fga 1219

Alonzo Mourning
92-93
pts 21.0
fga 1119

94-95
pts 21.3
fga 1101


Obviously most of these stats are from the 80's when the game was a little faster, thus there were more shot attempts at the basket for most teams.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 09-07-2007 2:29 PM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
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franco12
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7/9/2007  2:27 PM
they were more than just better defenders- I think they were better players too!

I think the biggest challenge to these two working together on the offensive end is Curry's passing ability, or lack there off.

I think the one thing all of those guys have in common, besides HOFness, is passing ability.
dodger78
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7/9/2007  2:32 PM
Pretty good Thread idea!
I think it might work, hard to tell yet but I sure look forward to see how things develop.
Lee may play an important part in the mix even though he is not a lowpost defender.
Marv
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7/9/2007  2:36 PM
Posted by franco12:

they were more than just better defenders- I think they were better players too!

I think the biggest challenge to these two working together on the offensive end is Curry's passing ability, or lack there off.

I think the one thing all of those guys have in common, besides HOFness, is passing ability.

plus these guys all moved a lot more without the ball. they cut, pick-and-rolled. these were all active movement players, not just dump it down and stand and watch types.

Marv
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7/9/2007  2:40 PM
Posted by dodger78:

Pretty good Thread idea!
I think it might work, hard to tell yet but I sure look forward to see how things develop.
Lee may play an important part in the mix even though he is not a lowpost defender.

i think despite our overflow of 3's now, lee might play very well there with zach and eddy. remember how well he handled it when starting next to AD and eddy?
MS
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7/9/2007  2:45 PM
Scoring is not the question, I think most feel they are going to score, defense you brought up is the big question.

Mourning Johnson
92-93 10.3rbs 3.5blks, 10.5rbs .33blk
93-94 10.2rbs 3.1blks, 8.8rbs .27blks

LJ could do just about everything, from anywhere, very different

Parish-McChale
86-87 10.6rbs 1.8blks, 9.9rbs 2.23blks
87-88 8.5rbs 1.14blks, 8.4rbs 1.44blks

Each tandems was blokcing over 3 a game relatively easily thats the oen realy area of concern to be worried about

36pts 16rbs 1blk 3ass 1.5stls 6to's I think thats was your looking at every night for the pf/center combo

dodger78
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7/9/2007  2:46 PM
Yup I think he is just exactly what may be needed to make our front-court work.
Balkster and Mardys D and hustle may also be helpful... I think there might be something interesting growing... enough for a championship... well no but interesting never the less...
Nalod
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7/9/2007  2:53 PM
Haywood-McAdoo

Cartwright-Webster

Abbot-Costello

Martin-Lewis

Hakeem, Ralph did not work that great. LJ with Zo was a different player.

Parrish-Mchale was great, Daugterty was Timmay Duncan type player and Nance was a compliment very athletic type.

I think when you can have complimenting type players it can work very well. Parrish-Mchale were multi talented around teh basket and had nice mid range shots.

Only one group had a championship and the rest were successful to a certain degree. Injury to Sampson might have curtailed some greatness. In this day and age, Ralph would have been a face to the basket type player instead of trying to make him into a post player.

LJ was a perimeter player with an explosive first step before his back slowed him. Give him credit to what he became, but it was not the low post LJ we had here in NY.

"Zeddy" does on paper have potential, but my imagination cannot see their talents adding up.
newyorknewyork
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7/9/2007  3:15 PM
Most of those players were before my time. But I can bet you that the double post players that did work were because the players were adabtable.

They could adapt to the roles being the defensive anchor and let his counterpart score if need be & vise versa.

I don't see Curry or Randolph cappable of adapting like that.
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VDesai
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7/9/2007  3:44 PM
Parrish-McHale is probably the best example and the one with the most long-term success (not to mention championship succes). A lot of "twin tower" or double post combos were short lived, either due to frustration, or in a couple cases above, injury.
arkrud
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7/9/2007  3:51 PM
In any case it will take a while for them to get used to each other.
So IT has a new exuse for the start of next season or even for all season...
Are we ready to take this exuse and for how long?

[Edited by - arkrud on 07-09-2007 3:51 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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7/9/2007  4:04 PM
Zach isn't really the same kind of player that Curry is. Curry is a SUPER LOW post player and he doesn't really venture far away from it. Zach plays out away from the basket a lot more than some here keep making it seem. He's more of a mid post guy and then he'll often face up and take his man off the dribble. Curry does that but not as much. Scoring wise I see them working just fine. Then you have the times when they won't be on the floor together and at those times they'll get to dominate the post all they want. We have to allow that they should grow more and more comfortable the more they play with each other and develop some chemistry. They both have a natural tendency to take the opposite side of the floor on offense, so there shouldn't be much problem there. Many of us wanted David Lee to be Curry's running mate and basically his game is more limited than Zach's at this time. Zach has more range and accuracy along with more developed offensive skills. Lee is more athletic, but does similar things when he posts up, but when he's away from the basket he's not as comfortable. I hope his game has developed a bit more since last year, cuz that would be a big help.

On D that's another issue altogether. I wouldn't expect that they'd be a dynamic shot blocking tandem, but they should be able to clog the paint and deter a few shots if they give the effort. I'm sure that this will be a major area of emphasis from the coaches this year. That and the improvement of the Perimeter D.
arkrud
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7/9/2007  5:27 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Zach isn't really the same kind of player that Curry is. Curry is a SUPER LOW post player and he doesn't really venture far away from it. Zach plays out away from the basket a lot more than some here keep making it seem. He's more of a mid post guy and then he'll often face up and take his man off the dribble. Curry does that but not as much. Scoring wise I see them working just fine. Then you have the times when they won't be on the floor together and at those times they'll get to dominate the post all they want. We have to allow that they should grow more and more comfortable the more they play with each other and develop some chemistry. They both have a natural tendency to take the opposite side of the floor on offense, so there shouldn't be much problem there. Many of us wanted David Lee to be Curry's running mate and basically his game is more limited than Zach's at this time. Zach has more range and accuracy along with more developed offensive skills. Lee is more athletic, but does similar things when he posts up, but when he's away from the basket he's not as comfortable. I hope his game has developed a bit more since last year, cuz that would be a big help.

On D that's another issue altogether. I wouldn't expect that they'd be a dynamic shot blocking tandem, but they should be able to clog the paint and deter a few shots if they give the effort. I'm sure that this will be a major area of emphasis from the coaches this year. That and the improvement of the Perimeter D.

Actually what you are saying:

1. Eddy is supper slow
2. Zack is a ball hog
3. They should not play together much
4. They need time to gel
5. They both bad on defense
6. They will clog the paint and will make themselves vulnerable for blocking fouls

I pretty much agree with you on all points this time






[Edited by - arkrud on 07-09-2007 5:27 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BRIGGS
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7/9/2007  5:55 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

DISCLAIMER: The players I'm about to mention were better defenders than Curry/Zach. This thread is just to show how both can share the paint offensively.


Robert Parish
86-87
pts 17.5
fga 1057

87-88
pts 14.3
fga 750

Kevin Mchale
86-87
pts 26.1
fga 1307

87-88
pts 22.6
fga 911


Larry Nance
90-91
pts 19.2
fga 1211

91-92
pts 17.0
fga 1033

Brad Daugherty
90-91
pts 21.6
fga 1155

91-92
21.5
fga 1010



Ralph Sampson
84-85
pts 22.1
fga 1499

85-86
pts 18.9
fga 1280

Hakeem Olajuwon
84-85
pts 20.6
fga 1258

85-86
pts 23.5
fga 1188

Larry Johnson
92-93
pts 22.1
fga 1385

94-95
pts 18.8
fga 1219

Alonzo Mourning
92-93
pts 21.0
fga 1119

94-95
pts 21.3
fga 1101


Obviously most of these stats are from the 80's when the game was a little faster, thus there were more shot attempts at the basket for most teams.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 09-07-2007 2:29 PM]

a lot of these players were good defensive players
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Ira
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7/9/2007  6:04 PM
One addition
Wesley Unseld and Elvin Hayes were one of the first combos of inside players. I don't have their stats handy, but they played together for several years (in the 70's) on the Baltimore Bullets and their teams did well.
BasketballJones
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7/9/2007  6:08 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by nixluva:

Zach isn't really the same kind of player that Curry is. Curry is a SUPER LOW post player and he doesn't really venture far away from it. Zach plays out away from the basket a lot more than some here keep making it seem. He's more of a mid post guy and then he'll often face up and take his man off the dribble. Curry does that but not as much. Scoring wise I see them working just fine. Then you have the times when they won't be on the floor together and at those times they'll get to dominate the post all they want. We have to allow that they should grow more and more comfortable the more they play with each other and develop some chemistry. They both have a natural tendency to take the opposite side of the floor on offense, so there shouldn't be much problem there. Many of us wanted David Lee to be Curry's running mate and basically his game is more limited than Zach's at this time. Zach has more range and accuracy along with more developed offensive skills. Lee is more athletic, but does similar things when he posts up, but when he's away from the basket he's not as comfortable. I hope his game has developed a bit more since last year, cuz that would be a big help.

On D that's another issue altogether. I wouldn't expect that they'd be a dynamic shot blocking tandem, but they should be able to clog the paint and deter a few shots if they give the effort. I'm sure that this will be a major area of emphasis from the coaches this year. That and the improvement of the Perimeter D.

Actually what you are saying:

1. Eddy is supper slow
2. Zack is a ball hog
3. They should not play together much
4. They need time to gel
5. They both bad on defense
6. They will clog the paint and will make themselves vulnerable for blocking fouls

I pretty much agree with you on all points this time






[Edited by - arkrud on 07-09-2007 5:27 PM]

Thanks for reading and translating nixluva's post for us. I hope you'll keep it up.
https:// It's not so hard.
nixluva
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7/9/2007  6:30 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by nixluva:

Zach isn't really the same kind of player that Curry is. Curry is a SUPER LOW post player and he doesn't really venture far away from it. Zach plays out away from the basket a lot more than some here keep making it seem. He's more of a mid post guy and then he'll often face up and take his man off the dribble. Curry does that but not as much. Scoring wise I see them working just fine. Then you have the times when they won't be on the floor together and at those times they'll get to dominate the post all they want. We have to allow that they should grow more and more comfortable the more they play with each other and develop some chemistry. They both have a natural tendency to take the opposite side of the floor on offense, so there shouldn't be much problem there. Many of us wanted David Lee to be Curry's running mate and basically his game is more limited than Zach's at this time. Zach has more range and accuracy along with more developed offensive skills. Lee is more athletic, but does similar things when he posts up, but when he's away from the basket he's not as comfortable. I hope his game has developed a bit more since last year, cuz that would be a big help.

On D that's another issue altogether. I wouldn't expect that they'd be a dynamic shot blocking tandem, but they should be able to clog the paint and deter a few shots if they give the effort. I'm sure that this will be a major area of emphasis from the coaches this year. That and the improvement of the Perimeter D.

Actually what you are saying:

1. Eddy is supper slow
2. Zack is a ball hog
3. They should not play together much
4. They need time to gel
5. They both bad on defense
6. They will clog the paint and will make themselves vulnerable for blocking fouls

I pretty much agree with you on all points this time
[Edited by - arkrud on 07-09-2007 5:27 PM]

Well for one thing Eddy isn't slow. He's just not fast. There's a difference. Amare is fast, but Big Z is slow. Curry is neither of those things. He's inbetween.

Zach was the star of his team. Usually those guys are somewhat selfish. Yet he did pass the ball 2 asts isn't bad for a bigman. I believe he can do better as i'm sure he would admit. The thing is tho that we WANT HIM TO SHOOT! Just like Curry and Lee. Those guys are more efficient and draw more fouls than our other players. So we want them to be somewhat selfish, just not stupid. If the play isn't there, pass the ball. That's all we want to see. Look if you watch any video of Zach, you'll notice that he surveys the court and looks for doubles. I think he can make the adjustment just fine.

I totally disagree with you that they shoudn't play together much. I think they are different enough to work fine with each other. You seem to have very little knowledge of Zach's game. Have you paid much attention to how he plays? Do you have League Pass? I'm still trying to fgure out why you wouldn't like adding 23.6 ppg - 10.1 rpg and 2.2 asts? Is this indicative of a bad player to you?

I would love to see his FG% improve along with his assists. Right now he takes a lot of shots, at 19 per and i'm hoping that Curry can increase his number of FGA's to around 15-17 and Zach's comedown to about the same. Just remember that teams are gonna have a hard time trying to decide who to leave and double either Curry or Zach. Who do they leave open? Steph? Q? Jamal? Nate or Nichols? Lee? They're gonna have to do something, cuz we have 2 guys that WILL SCORE if you don't double them. So while you and many others are so convinced this won't work, I fail to see how that's possible unless the other team is a GREAT defensive team.

Just remember that teams had a hard time stopping us last year when we weren't as good and didn't have it all together. Zach avg'd 7.1 FTA's and Curry 8.1. Steph avg'd 5.2, Jamal 4.6 and Lee was at 3.0. I'm hopeful that Lee will get to the line more this year. Our rebounding, which was already great just got stronger. We should be able to score about 100 ppg. We just need to find a way to hold teams just enough to win games. The key is to stay at home on perimeter, stop the TO's and get those hands up on D to contest shots.

JohnWallace44
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7/9/2007  6:37 PM
The Bullets were 9-6 during a brief stretch where they had Webber, Howard and Wallace in 95-96.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Pharzeone
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7/9/2007  6:42 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

The Bullets were 9-6 during a brief stretch where they had Webber, Howard and Wallace in 95-96.

It is hard to believe that they had that lineup. The ironic thing is that Juwan was thought to be the guy who had the real future. I remember the Knicks wanted him so bad but not as bad as Riley!
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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7/9/2007  6:47 PM
nixluva - you are a machine.
Double post players that has worked on other NBA teams...

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