[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Isaiah isn't attached to his mistakes.
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Ira
Posts: 24694
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
7/9/2007  8:55 AM
Maybe this isn't worth a separate thread, but there's one thing about the Randolph trade that impressed me about Isaiah. He realized he made a bad pick in Frye and wasn't so attached to proving he's right. He found an opportunity to better the team by trading Frye for a better player and took it. It's a good sign when the person in charge doesn't try to justify his mistakes and does what's right for his team.
AUTOADVERT
VDesai
Posts: 43302
Alba Posts: 44
Joined: 10/28/2003
Member: #477
USA
7/9/2007  9:03 AM
Still not sure Frye was completely a mistake. There's a lot I hate about his game- that's for sure. But he was on his way to being a pretty interesting player when they put more time into his development.

I don't think Isiah ever foresaw picking up Curry when he made Frye his no.1 pick.
TheGame
Posts: 26658
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
7/9/2007  9:07 AM
IT is in the playoffs or bust mode now. He knows Frye is still a couple of years away from where he needs to be. The Randolph trade got rid of Francis, who IT knew could not be on the team, and added a better scoring PF. Given that Frye was not a defensive guru (although I think he is better than many people are willing to give him credit for being), it was a trade IT had to make if he wants to ensure that the team makes the playoffs this year. I do think that the extension gave him more confidence to cut ties with Frye, and it will also give him more confidence to sit JJ2 if he plays bad again this year.

[Edited by - thegame on 07-09-2007 09:09 AM]
Trust the Process
martin
Posts: 81012
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/9/2007  9:10 AM
agreed there. And it seems like Zeke is taking a long hard look at Nate too.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
7/9/2007  9:16 AM
Isiah makes no mistakes. At least he thinks so.
So he has nothing to be attached too.
Also he is not attached to NY. Never was, never will.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Solace
Posts: 30004
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
7/9/2007  9:43 AM
Not sure, Ira. In this one instance, I would agree. But if Isiah isn't attached to his mistakes, I have a tough time understanding how someone like Stephon Marbury is still on the team. He's, at least, attached to one mistake, even if not to some of the others.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
TheGame
Posts: 26658
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
7/9/2007  9:46 AM
Posted by Solace:

Not sure, Ira. In this one instance, I would agree. But if Isiah isn't attached to his mistakes, I have a tough time understanding how someone like Stephon Marbury is still on the team. He's, at least, attached to one mistake, even if not to some of the others.

For two reasons:

a) Marbury is hard to trade due to his contract, and
b) Marbury is still the best pg on the team.

IT got Marbury to play team basketball and solid defense last year and Marbury looked pretty good doing it. I think IT realizes Marbury is not what he hoped for, but right now, Marbury is his best option at the point. Thus, he has not gotten rid of Marbury because he sees no reason to do so at this point.
Trust the Process
Nalod
Posts: 72424
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/9/2007  10:40 AM

Reezy, Expiring, 2005 #9 pick for Zach, Dickau, and Jones.

At least on paper, its the best trade he ever made.
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
7/9/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by Nalod:


Reezy, Expiring, 2005 #9 pick for Zach, Dickau, and Jones.

At least on paper, its the best trade he ever made.

The Marbury trade is not bad no matter what you think of Marbury.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
Posts: 81012
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/9/2007  11:30 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Nalod:


Reezy, Expiring, 2005 #9 pick for Zach, Dickau, and Jones.

At least on paper, its the best trade he ever made.

The Marbury trade is not bad no matter what you think of Marbury.

?

What's the Knicks' record been since the Marb trade? And what have any of the assets done outside of Marb?
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/9/2007  11:46 AM
Steph is not the problem and really never has been THE problem with this team. You have to have a good TEAM not just a great PG. When Steph was surrounded by spot up shooters you could see that it was the right kind of team for him, but Isiah didn't really like that squad of KVH, KT and Doleac. Just imagine that group with a healthy H2O on it as well and Steph driving and kicking all game. He would easily have 10+ assists. As it was with all the changes that year he still ended up avg'ing 9.3 asts. He's had many games with double digit assists, his problem has been that in his career he's almost never had a real high % SG next to him and the rare times that he did the guy wasn't really ready for primetime.

He's far from a perfect PG and he's not a born leader, but the guy is one of the best PG's in the league and has been his whole career. This team has been a mess in terms of personnel for a while now, but I believe Steph will be able to thrive over the next couple of years just being a distributor and playing better D. IF he uses his energy in those ways, this team will be more than fine. Then he can crank it up every once in a while to give us a lift when we need it. He really was learning how to do that last year.

Isiah isnt just being loyal to his guy. He realizes that he's not likely to get a better PG at this point. We have some good backup guys now and I don't see that position as a problem anymore. I actually think he's done a good job of plugging up our holes in the last 3 offseasons. I'm glad that he's sticking with Lee. If he makes a trade now it should be on his terms, cuz we're not desparate anymore. We have enough SF prospects that someone is likely to emerge from this group. I'm glad that Isiah is somewhat loyal to his own players, cuz these picks have been pretty good. Unless you get someone better and that won't mess up the team chemistry, there's no need to make a trade.
TrueBlue
Posts: 29144
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 9/20/2006
Member: #1172
7/9/2007  11:55 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Steph is not the problem and really never has been THE problem with this team. You have to have a good TEAM not just a great PG. When Steph was surrounded by spot up shooters you could see that it was the right kind of team for him, but Isiah didn't really like that squad of KVH, KT and Doleac. Just imagine that group with a healthy H2O on it as well and Steph driving and kicking all game. He would easily have 10+ assists. As it was with all the changes that year he still ended up avg'ing 9.3 asts. He's had many games with double digit assists, his problem has been that in his career he's almost never had a real high % SG next to him and the rare times that he did the guy wasn't really ready for primetime.

He's far from a perfect PG and he's not a born leader, but the guy is one of the best PG's in the league and has been his whole career. This team has been a mess in terms of personnel for a while now, but I believe Steph will be able to thrive over the next couple of years just being a distributor and playing better D. IF he uses his energy in those ways, this team will be more than fine. Then he can crank it up every once in a while to give us a lift when we need it. He really was learning how to do that last year.

Isiah isnt just being loyal to his guy. He realizes that he's not likely to get a better PG at this point. We have some good backup guys now and I don't see that position as a problem anymore. I actually think he's done a good job of plugging up our holes in the last 3 offseasons. I'm glad that he's sticking with Lee. If he makes a trade now it should be on his terms, cuz we're not desparate anymore. We have enough SF prospects that someone is likely to emerge from this group. I'm glad that Isiah is somewhat loyal to his own players, cuz these picks have been pretty good. Unless you get someone better and that won't mess up the team chemistry, there's no need to make a trade.


Did Steph not fight with those teammates who supposedly were the right kind of personnel he needed to play with? He fought with Kurt, KVH? So in essence he's been a large part of the problem. And if the personnel was right for Steph but I SAY UGH didn't like it.... as much as you defend him, isn't he the problem then by not assembling a team to suit the most talented point guard loser in his prime yrs?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
7/9/2007  12:09 PM
but the guy is one of the best PG's in the league

What League, the WNBA???? LOL, Marbury isn't even top 15 anymore.



Isiah is very attached to his mistakes, he just cycles threw to the ones easiest to get rid of first when has to make a move to save his butt.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
7/9/2007  12:12 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Nalod:


Reezy, Expiring, 2005 #9 pick for Zach, Dickau, and Jones.

At least on paper, its the best trade he ever made.

The Marbury trade is not bad no matter what you think of Marbury.

Yeah, 2 lottery pick and all the garbage that comes with him, including Penny (that's $200M is you're counting at home) just so we can talk about him being an expiring contract in 2 years.

But it wasn't a bad trade.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
7/9/2007  12:18 PM
As far as Isiah not being attacked to his mistakes, that explains Jerome James starting ahead of Lee or anybody else for that matter. That explains Jeffries getting minutes ahead of Balkman. That explains Nate still being a Knick. And so on and so on and so on.

At the very minimum, this should put to rest the fallacy that Isiah is a great drafter. Frye, the mid lottery pick from 2 years ago, is being portrayed as worthless in the Randolph trade by the same people who talk Isiah up for his draft picks. And Nate is playing for his 3rd summer league team because he's been a total bust.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TheGame
Posts: 26658
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
7/9/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:

As far as Isiah not being attacked to his mistakes, that explains Jerome James starting ahead of Lee or anybody else for that matter. That explains Jeffries getting minutes ahead of Balkman. That explains Nate still being a Knick. And so on and so on and so on.

At the very minimum, this should put to rest the fallacy that Isiah is a great drafter. Frye, the mid lottery pick from 2 years ago, is being portrayed as worthless in the Randolph trade by the same people who talk Isiah up for his draft picks. And Nate is playing for his 3rd summer league team because he's been a total bust.

He was not worthless. Portland did not trade Randolph for Francis straightup. They wanted Frye and saw him as another young forward who would work well with Oden. I think Frye will still turn out to be a decent player.

Trust the Process
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
7/9/2007  12:42 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by islesfan:

As far as Isiah not being attacked to his mistakes, that explains Jerome James starting ahead of Lee or anybody else for that matter. That explains Jeffries getting minutes ahead of Balkman. That explains Nate still being a Knick. And so on and so on and so on.

At the very minimum, this should put to rest the fallacy that Isiah is a great drafter. Frye, the mid lottery pick from 2 years ago, is being portrayed as worthless in the Randolph trade by the same people who talk Isiah up for his draft picks. And Nate is playing for his 3rd summer league team because he's been a total bust.

He was not worthless. Portland did not trade Randolph for Francis straightup. They wanted Frye and saw him as another young forward who would work well with Oden. I think Frye will still turn out to be a decent player.

Frye has some value but not nearly what you would think a mid lottery pick from just 2 years ago would have. Especially since he had a decent first year, under Larry. But let's be serious, in terms of why Portland made the trade, Frye's value came in a distant 3rd behind getting rid of Randolph and his horrible contract (far and away the #1 reason) and 2) to get Francis' large expiring contract next year.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bigbeast
Posts: 22333
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/21/2005
Member: #1060
7/9/2007  12:58 PM
Posted by islesfan:

As far as Isiah not being attacked to his mistakes, that explains Jerome James starting ahead of Lee or anybody else for that matter. That explains Jeffries getting minutes ahead of Balkman. That explains Nate still being a Knick. And so on and so on and so on.

At the very minimum, this should put to rest the fallacy that Isiah is a great drafter. Frye, the mid lottery pick from 2 years ago, is being portrayed as worthless in the Randolph trade by the same people who talk Isiah up for his draft picks. And Nate is playing for his 3rd summer league team because he's been a total bust.

Nate may be an aquired taste, but to call him a bust is not paying attention. Nate is a ice change of pace scoring sparkplug to have off the bench. He's our best perimter shooter, and can be ungaurdable at times (ask Carlise). Yes he's out of control and an a bit of a hot head, but in the right situation, he can flourish in a role predicated to suit him.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
7/9/2007  1:00 PM
there seems to be alot of differing messages.

last year it was about stability and keep a unit together and letting them grow.

then he traded frye and looks to make another move on the horizon for a SF. that's 2 out of 5 new starters for this team. is that still stability?

did isiah learn his "mistake" with frye or did he give up on him b/c he wasn't patient enough?

there's alot of change on the knicks roster.

fans that continue to argue for isiah, i offer one piece of advice, don't do it. whether you're a lover or hater, regardless of outcome, don't waste post after post trying to defend a plan that is in flux b/c what you say today will be different from what you say tomorrow.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
7/9/2007  1:03 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by islesfan:

As far as Isiah not being attacked to his mistakes, that explains Jerome James starting ahead of Lee or anybody else for that matter. That explains Jeffries getting minutes ahead of Balkman. That explains Nate still being a Knick. And so on and so on and so on.

At the very minimum, this should put to rest the fallacy that Isiah is a great drafter. Frye, the mid lottery pick from 2 years ago, is being portrayed as worthless in the Randolph trade by the same people who talk Isiah up for his draft picks. And Nate is playing for his 3rd summer league team because he's been a total bust.

Nate may be an aquired taste, but to call him a bust is not paying attention. Nate is a ice change of pace scoring sparkplug to have off the bench. He's our best perimter shooter, and can be ungaurdable at times (ask Carlise). Yes he's out of control and an a bit of a hot head, but in the right situation, he can flourish in a role predicated to suit him.

the bust has been lb and isiah for not utilizing him properly. either alter the gameplan to take advantage of his skillset or trade him. but last season was an absolute waste with him - he regressed instead of developed.

the guy is not a point guard. he's a scorer off the bench. this offense is not condusive for his success. trade him.
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Isaiah isn't attached to his mistakes.
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy