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Bippity10
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7/2/2007  9:56 AM
According to most people on this site we have 2-3 all-star caliber players. On any given night:

Eddie 20-10
Zach 20-10
Steph 20-10

All are capable of dominating their opposite on any given night. Throw in a group of players(Craw, Lee, Q) that are capable of starting for most teams is their any excuse for this team not making the playoffs? I have listened to excuse after excuse after excuse for 3 years now. NOw in the pre-season I'm hearing some of the "lovers" say things like "if everything goes well we could make the playoffs". Looking at the roster, what possible spin could you place for this team not making the playoffs. The talent level is as good or better than any team in the East. Why the disclaimers of "if everything goes well"? Why should any of us even doubt that this team is a top team? Would some "lover" explain to me why I should be hoping that "everything goes well", instead of just assuming my team is good enough to be a top team in the East with this talent level? Shouldn't playoffs by now be a given?
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Allanfan20
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7/2/2007  10:03 AM
I agree with you Bip. This team, with the money spent and talent aquired, should win 45 games MINIMUM. Anything less is severely underachieving in the weak East.
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TheGame
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7/2/2007  10:06 AM
I agree the playoffs are expected. Anything less and the season cannot be considered a success. We now have two lowpost options that will allow the team to continue to score when Curry sits. Curry has a summer to work on his passing and double team recognition. Balkman, Lee, and Collins have a summer to work on their jumpshooting. Nate should be under even more control. Crawford should be healed up and ready to continue his 4th quarter play. Marbury should have accepted that he is not and does not need to be the best player on the team but rather needs to make these other guys better. Without injuries, this team would have won 40 games last year, which means we should win at least 45 games this year. That should be good enough to get into the playoffs. No excuses. They have to find a way to get it done and they need to make a strong showing in the first round (at least win 2 games). The team is still young so I am not going to demand a second round appearance but they need to at least have a competitive first round series.
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arkrud
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7/2/2007  10:19 AM
No problems:

Eddie 20-10 - heart and conditioning
Zach 20-10 - microfracture and off-court problems
Steph 20-10 - bad ancles and a lot of mileas

If 2 of 3 broke - excelent exuse
If one of 3 - good exuse

I think IT a...ss is covered already even better that last 3 seasons.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bippity10
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7/2/2007  10:25 AM
Posted by TheGame:

I agree the playoffs are expected. Anything less and the season cannot be considered a success. We now have two lowpost options that will allow the team to continue to score when Curry sits. Curry has a summer to work on his passing and double team recognition. Balkman, Lee, and Collins have a summer to work on their jumpshooting. Nate should be under even more control. Crawford should be healed up and ready to continue his 4th quarter play. Marbury should have accepted that he is not and does not need to be the best player on the team but rather needs to make these other guys better. Without injuries, this team would have won 40 games last year, which means we should win at least 45 games this year. That should be good enough to get into the playoffs. No excuses. They have to find a way to get it done and they need to make a strong showing in the first round (at least win 2 games). The team is still young so I am not going to demand a second round appearance but they need to at least have a competitive first round series.


I'm with you. I understand the youth and the potential chemistry problems. I understand this team isn't ready to compete for a title or even the East. But with the talent on this team their is no excuse for not making the playoffs. My only question is why do the "lovers" doubt their team so much. Why have they become the "haters"?
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EnySpree
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7/2/2007  10:29 AM
Lol.

If the knicks get caught with injuries again at the volume they did at the end of last season, they will miss the playoffs.

I think that's the standard excuse for any team.
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Bippity10
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7/2/2007  10:38 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Lol.

If the knicks get caught with injuries again at the volume they did at the end of last season, they will miss the playoffs.

I think that's the standard excuse for any team.


Think about it. They had horrible injuries over the last 20 games last year. Yet they still almost made the playoffs. Had they not wasted the first 20 games worrying about everything but winning games they probably still make it. Had Marbs not been divisive for the first 20 games we probably still make it. Had they not used the fans as an excuse last year they still could have made it. Had they not relaxed after any sign of success and then lose every big game, must win in front of them they still could have made it. Had they added a 20-10 guy to the roster they still could have made it. I know the lovers will event excuse after excuse should this team not make the playoffs, as will Isiah because that is the culture we have created. We must eliminate that this year.

We need to understand why it's important to play hard every night. Why it's important to play as a team from the beginning. Because it's a long season. Injuries happen and you must be prepared. You can't lose games you should win because later in the season they may bite you in the arse when you do have injuries. YOu can't pout on the bench and drag your team down for 20 games, because later on in the year you may have injuries. Enough excuses.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 02-07-2007 10:41 AM]
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kam77
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7/2/2007  10:44 AM
No excuses. This year is Playoffs or bust. We're better than 8 seed Orlando.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bippity10
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7/2/2007  10:47 AM
At some point in time you have to produce.
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Travla
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7/2/2007  10:49 AM
Yes we have 5 players that can give us 20 pts; Zach, Curry, Marbs, QRich, and Craw with varous amounts of rebound and assists thrown in!! The problem is committment to defense, chemistry, shot selection and various other things that make it all work.
It's about fitting the pieces together and understanding your place in that puzzle. Hopefully the Knicks will realize what it takes and "do the right thing"
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Bippity10
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7/2/2007  10:49 AM
As for the injuries I think Arkrud hit it on the head

Marbs-Knee issues
Eddie-heart issues
Zach-knee issues
Lee-Who knows what's wrong with him
Q-back issues

We have a team of guys who have the possibility of going down at anytime. That is the team Isiah put togehter. He cannot turn around and use it as an excuse should it happen.
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arkrud
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7/2/2007  10:51 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by EnySpree:

Lol.

If the knicks get caught with injuries again at the volume they did at the end of last season, they will miss the playoffs.

I think that's the standard excuse for any team.


Think about it. They had horrible injuries over the last 20 games last year. Yet they still almost made the playoffs. Had they not wasted the first 20 games worrying about everything but winning games they probably still make it. Had Marbs not been divisive for the first 20 games we probably still make it. Had they not used the fans as an excuse last year they still could have made it. Had they not relaxed after any sign of success and then lose every big game, must win in front of them they still could have made it. Had they added a 20-10 guy to the roster they still could have made it. I know the lovers will event excuse after excuse should this team not make the playoffs, as will Isiah because that is the culture we have created. We must eliminate that this year.

We need to understand why it's important to play hard every night. Why it's important to play as a team from the beginning. Because it's a long season. Injuries happen and you must be prepared. You can't lose games you should win because later in the season they may bite you in the arse when you do have injuries. YOu can't pout on the bench and drag your team down for 20 games, because later on in the year you may have injuries. Enough excuses.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 02-07-2007 10:41 AM]

We need to understand why it's important to play hard every night.
Is this team composed from morans and managed by morans?
This is very simple rule and it is not something that you need to "understand" - it's sometning that as natural as breasing for any normal athlete and sport executive.
The real guestion is - Do they have the ability to play hard? People have physical and mental limitations.
May be this is what we have on hand.





"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bippity10
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7/2/2007  10:58 AM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by EnySpree:

Lol.

If the knicks get caught with injuries again at the volume they did at the end of last season, they will miss the playoffs.

I think that's the standard excuse for any team.


Think about it. They had horrible injuries over the last 20 games last year. Yet they still almost made the playoffs. Had they not wasted the first 20 games worrying about everything but winning games they probably still make it. Had Marbs not been divisive for the first 20 games we probably still make it. Had they not used the fans as an excuse last year they still could have made it. Had they not relaxed after any sign of success and then lose every big game, must win in front of them they still could have made it. Had they added a 20-10 guy to the roster they still could have made it. I know the lovers will event excuse after excuse should this team not make the playoffs, as will Isiah because that is the culture we have created. We must eliminate that this year.

We need to understand why it's important to play hard every night. Why it's important to play as a team from the beginning. Because it's a long season. Injuries happen and you must be prepared. You can't lose games you should win because later in the season they may bite you in the arse when you do have injuries. YOu can't pout on the bench and drag your team down for 20 games, because later on in the year you may have injuries. Enough excuses.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 02-07-2007 10:41 AM]

We need to understand why it's important to play hard every night.
Is this team composed from morans and managed by morans?
This is very simple rule and it is not something that you need to "understand" - it's sometning that as natural as breasing for any normal athlete and sport executive.
The real guestion is - Do they have the ability to play hard? People have physical and mental limitations.
May be this is what we have on hand.




That's the main problem when you have a team of guys that are motivated by money, image, fame and numbers more than they are by winning. You are left trying to teach them that if they win, all the other things come with it. We have too many players that think it's the other way around. Players can learn. I've coached players that have gone from lazy, disinterested players, to beasts overnight. It can happen. But man, it's not something you want to consistently have to try to do.
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djsunyc
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7/2/2007  11:06 AM
no playoffs = failure
Bonn1997
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7/2/2007  11:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

no playoffs = failure
With the number of years and dollars spent by Isiah and Dolan, even a first round playoff loss is a failure. We're in the crappy east for crying out loud!
BlueSeats
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7/2/2007  11:18 AM
What if we have an unseasonably cold November? Gotta cut 'em some slack for that. And 82 games really is a long schedule, you can't expect them to play hard the whole season. Plus, we play in the East, surely there's an east coast exemption for something or other.
COSSUCKS
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7/2/2007  11:23 AM
Marby is not a 20-10 guy.Nor an All Star. He will average around 14-8 this year. Curry and Zach probably will make the all star team this season if we are winning. They dont have to be 20-10 guys. If we get 19-9 from both of them we will still have the most productive front court in the east.
Bippity10
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7/2/2007  11:25 AM
Posted by COSSUCKS:

Marby is not a 20-10 guy.Nor an All Star. He will average around 14-8 this year. Curry and Zach probably will make the all star team this season if we are winning. They dont have to be 20-10 guys. If we get 19-9 from both of them we will still have the most productive front court in the east.


So question is, shouldn't "the most productive front court in the east" be a lock for the playoffs?
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bigbeast
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7/2/2007  11:32 AM
Posted by Travla:

Yes we have 5 players that can give us 20 pts; Zach, Curry, Marbs, QRich, and Craw with varous amounts of rebound and assists thrown in!! The problem is committment to defense, chemistry, shot selection and various other things that make it all work.
It's about fitting the pieces together and understanding your place in that puzzle. Hopefully the Knicks will realize what it takes and "do the right thing"

And there lies the problem. Or possible problems. How are these guys going to mix on the floor? How long does it take them to get a feel for Zach's game and vice versa? Does Isiah install the right system that would be most effective for the pieces we now have? Can Marb be the orchestrator that we need?

These are legit concerns.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
TMS
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7/2/2007  11:39 AM
this team will win about 40 games this year, & if they somehow squeak into the playoffs, it will only be because of the disgustingly mediocre teams in the Eastern Conference next season... then Marbury, Isiah & the rest of them will feel a big sense of accomplishment for having made the playoffs, & subsequently get run out of the gym by a far superior top 3 seeded team like the Pistons, Heat or Cavs... then they'll go & trade Malik Rose & Balkman next season for Darius Miles, & we'll be right back here again next year talking about how Isiah got himself a young & athletic talent with tons of upside & how the Knicks will improve on the season they just had if everything goes right & the team gels the way it should, blah blah blah.

if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it
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