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Wow Simmons actually liked the trade for us...
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mrbean259
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6/29/2007  10:02 AM
6:14: Good God, Isiah finally made a good trade! It happened! Somehow, he just landed Zach Randolph for Channing Frye and Stevie Francis! I'm shocked! What's happening to this league? Even Isiah is doing the right thing! I can't stop using exclamation points! How was that the best Portland could do for Randolph??? He's good for a 25-10 in the East! And if it doesn't work out, who cares? They gave up a bad contract and a half-decent forward to take a $50 million flier on a dominant low-post player. Great move. I stand by these thoughts even if Zach starts an international incident at Scores within the next nine months.

(Follow-up note: I think Portland GM Kevin Pritchard spent an hour thinking about it and decided, "You know what? Just to be safe, maybe it's best that Oden and Randolph never, ever, ever meet. Call Isiah and tell him we say yes to the crappy Francis-Frye offer. We can't mess around.")
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nixluva
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6/29/2007  10:34 AM
I must admit that i'm shocked Simmons actually liked the deal. It sounds like he is a Zach Randolph fan, cuz with his baggage most media guys hate him. He's right about what we gave up for him. It was nothing of value to the team. Francis? Frye, who I like, but have to admit was a mystery to me. The guy seemed to be pressing all year. I think he'll do much better in Portland.
arkrud
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6/29/2007  10:39 AM
Nix can you understand what is serious and what is sarcastic?
Simmons just makin fun of IT... as usual.
But it is no fun for Knicks fans.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Pharzeone
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6/29/2007  10:54 AM
Posted by arkrud:

Nix can you understand what is serious and what is sarcastic?
Simmons just makin fun of IT... as usual.
But it is no fun for Knicks fans.

Simmons is not being sarcastic. He has always been a Randolph fan and he does like the trade. As I said other than the NBA TV analyst guys most sport reporters are going gaga over this trade. Saying how it took Thomas 4 years to make a decent trade.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Masterplan
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6/29/2007  10:58 AM
i mean, it's another trade where we win from a pure talent standpoint. but we're just treading water in terms of team chemistry, fiscal sanity and winning culture.
MS
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6/29/2007  11:00 AM
Allen for Zack works well for both teams
Ira
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6/29/2007  11:03 AM
Posted by Masterplan:

i mean, it's another trade where we win from a pure talent standpoint. but we're just treading water in terms of team chemistry, fiscal sanity and winning culture.


That's true. But the first step in getting the right players together is getting talented players. Isaiah traded an untradeable point guard and a 4/5 who wasn't performing and got a player who's talent is unquestionable and two expiring contracts.
Masterplan
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6/29/2007  11:17 AM
Posted by Ira:
Posted by Masterplan:

i mean, it's another trade where we win from a pure talent standpoint. but we're just treading water in terms of team chemistry, fiscal sanity and winning culture.


That's true. But the first step in getting the right players together is getting talented players. Isaiah traded an untradeable point guard and a 4/5 who wasn't performing and got a player who's talent is unquestionable and two expiring contracts.

yes, but we've been on that step since IT got here. at some point we need to make moves that balance the team and put us in a position to win, not to have the most "talent."

[Edited by - Masterplan on 06-29-2007 11:17 AM]
misterearl
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6/29/2007  11:21 AM
Masterplan - i always thought that superior talent what what won games

chemistry is a by-product of winning, yes?

or does chemistry come before winning?

now I'm confused

[Edited by - misterearl on 06-29-2007 11:22 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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6/29/2007  11:29 AM
Giving up a decent player with some upside in Frye and absorbing 30 mil more in salary makes Isiah look good.

without the money angle he can't trade.

But the fact is Zach is a commodity and Francis was not. It cost Frye, which in the right system is a good player.

Im going to stay open on this. What is Eddy and Zach go to rebounding school?

The chemistry thing is what gets me and I have no trust for Isiah with team construction.
mattshaw78
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6/29/2007  11:31 AM
talents at a superstar level is not really needed. A good example is when the Pistons won the championship. I mean the team has stars but not at a high level like a garnett, nash etc. The pistons championship yr was all chemistry and drive.
BlueSeats "I like anyone who can make Lebron cry. Melo seems to do it a lot."
misterearl
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6/29/2007  11:33 AM
"What is Eddy and Zach go to rebounding school?"

Nalod - there is absolutely nothing wrong with Zack's rebounding output

check his numbers
once a knick always a knick
Masterplan
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6/29/2007  11:35 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - i always thought that superior talent what what won games

then why do teams have coaches? wouldn't the more talented team win regardless? of course not.

talent is necessary to win games, but not sufficient. you need players with diverse sets of skills (i.e. complementary *kinds* of talent). that's been IT's achilles heel, IMO.

here's an extreme example. our boy eddy curry is a talented dude. if we somehow had a roster of 12 eddy curry's, how many games do you think we'd win? i'd expect not many because we couldn't D up and couldn't bring the ball over half court - a bad combination of talent. i think our team isn't quite that level of caricature, but needs to cover a lot of ground in the other direction.
chemistry is a by-product of winning, yes?

or does chemistry come before winning?

i mean, that part's arguable, isn't it? would you agree that there are some players out there who contribute to good chemistry? they can be on good or bad teams, but they have that effect either way. hell, i have good chemistry with my friends but i almost never play sports with some of them. so i'd argue that chemistry can exist independently of "winning." chemistry before winning, i'd say.
Masterplan
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6/29/2007  12:00 PM
of all the players in the league of comparable pure level of *talent* to Zach i can think of few who would be as poor a fit for this team. we also got the highest paid one.
BRIGGS
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6/29/2007  12:03 PM
Posted by mrbean259:

6:14: Good God, Isiah finally made a good trade! It happened! Somehow, he just landed Zach Randolph for Channing Frye and Stevie Francis! I'm shocked! What's happening to this league? Even Isiah is doing the right thing! I can't stop using exclamation points! How was that the best Portland could do for Randolph??? He's good for a 25-10 in the East! And if it doesn't work out, who cares? They gave up a bad contract and a half-decent forward to take a $50 million flier on a dominant low-post player. Great move. I stand by these thoughts even if Zach starts an international incident at Scores within the next nine months.

(Follow-up note: I think Portland GM Kevin Pritchard spent an hour thinking about it and decided, "You know what? Just to be safe, maybe it's best that Oden and Randolph never, ever, ever meet. Call Isiah and tell him we say yes to the crappy Francis-Frye offer. We can't mess around.")

He also said that Seattle should skip on Oden.
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Pharzeone
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6/29/2007  12:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by mrbean259:

6:14: Good God, Isiah finally made a good trade! It happened! Somehow, he just landed Zach Randolph for Channing Frye and Stevie Francis! I'm shocked! What's happening to this league? Even Isiah is doing the right thing! I can't stop using exclamation points! How was that the best Portland could do for Randolph??? He's good for a 25-10 in the East! And if it doesn't work out, who cares? They gave up a bad contract and a half-decent forward to take a $50 million flier on a dominant low-post player. Great move. I stand by these thoughts even if Zach starts an international incident at Scores within the next nine months.

(Follow-up note: I think Portland GM Kevin Pritchard spent an hour thinking about it and decided, "You know what? Just to be safe, maybe it's best that Oden and Randolph never, ever, ever meet. Call Isiah and tell him we say yes to the crappy Francis-Frye offer. We can't mess around.")

He also said that Seattle should skip on Oden.

He also gave the best line on Oden to Chad Ford. Congrats on drafting the next Patrick Ewing. I am sorry I am a Knick fan but line is classic.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TheGame
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6/29/2007  12:38 PM
I agree with Simmons. This was probably IT's best trade. WE GOT RID OF FRANCIS, who was virtually untradeable and got an all-star level PF in return. Essentially, we traded Frye for Randolph. I like Frye and think that he will turn his career around. But it is HIGHLY doubtful that he would ever become as good as Randolph is on offense right now. And since Frye was not much of a defensive player either, we really made a huge upgrade at PF (oh and Randolph can rebound).

The thing with the cap complaint is that this team was never going to realistically be under the cap. We will have to resign Lee and Nate the summar that Marbury's contract expires. Thus, the only way we were going to be under the cap was to let our young players go and even then we would not be significantly under the cap. Also, in two years, if things don't work out, we can trade Randolph. He will only be 27 with 2 years left on his deal. AS long as he does not get into any serious trouble, which I don't think will happen, he should still have good trade value in 2 years (maybe even more value since his deal will not be as long). All in all, this is by far IT's best trade. Randolph is probably going to be prove to be even more important than Curry to this team because he can actually pass.
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Wow Simmons actually liked the trade for us...
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