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djsunyc
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6/5/2007  10:04 AM
Van Gundy Makes Verbal Commitment To Kings, But Magic An Option
5th June, 2007 - 7:24 am
Gainesville Sun -

Billy Donovan could return as Florida coach as early as today, but legal issues surrounding the deal he signed with the Orlando Magic could delay the process.

Another issue, according to an NBA source, could center around the status of former Miami Heat coach Stan Van Gundy. Van Gundy, considered the second option behind Donovan to coach the Magic last week, made a verbal commitment to coach the Sacramento Kings after interviewing Saturday, but would reconsider his options if the Magic job reopened.

Orlando would like to have a new coach in place before letting Donovan out of his five-year, $27.5 million contract, according to the source.
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Cookdcokehop
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6/5/2007  10:06 AM
The Magic would be better for him
djsunyc
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6/5/2007  10:09 AM
the verbal committment was before the donovan episode.

svg will coach the magic.
martin
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6/5/2007  10:47 AM
SVG to Donovan: verbal commitment before you go all in. Watch and learn.
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TrueBlue
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6/5/2007  12:33 PM
Posted by martin:

SVG to Donovan: verbal commitment before you go all in. Watch and learn.

You beat me to it. I alluded to this yesterday.

Like Duh!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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6/5/2007  12:36 PM
Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nyk4ever
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6/5/2007  12:38 PM
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

I agree with Solace. Where the hell has ethics business ethics gone too? I'm not that old(24) but I'm old enough to know that the constant speaking out of both sides of your mouth nowadays is disgusting. If you're not sure about a commitment, then don't commit PERIOD. No hand shake deals, no verbal deals, no contract deals. JUST DON'T COMMIT.

This is stupid.
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TrueBlue
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6/5/2007  12:52 PM
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

I agree but often times in negotiations both parties agree on negotiation status. Giving verbal commitments can at times show the level of interest as like not giving anyone else a verbal commitment outside of maybe one last interview. For all we know SVG may have told them I'll accept if I don't get offered the job in Orlando. But seriously people should know what they want to do ultimately, instead of playing mind games. I hope Orlando gets that 5yr restricted reprimand on Donavan though.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-07-2007 11:48 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
martin
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6/5/2007  1:00 PM
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.
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Solace
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6/5/2007  1:06 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Your two statements already contradict themselves and clearly show it's in bad taste. Yes, it's bad. Do you care about your rep? Your credibility as a candidate? Anytime you agree to join an organization, you agree in principle that you're 100% satisfied with whatever package has been offered, thoroughly thought it out, evaluated all alternatives and are SURE! You put yourself and your ethics on the line. Backing out of an agreement for any reason other than the most extreme of circumstances is an embarassment, shows a lack of ethics, and is plain dirty.

If you can't be trusted for your word, you're unhireable.

The legality is one thing. The morals have to be considered, too. Nyk4ever is right. Where has the integrity gone? People think that this is okay behavior are an embarassment. Sorry, dude.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:08 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Solace
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6/5/2007  1:12 PM
From the 48 Laws of Power:

So Much Depends on Your Reputation - Guard It With Your Life

Good advice.

SVG just tainted his. Donovan ruined his completely.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TrueBlue
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6/5/2007  1:15 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Your two statements already contradict themselves and clearly show it's in bad taste. Yes, it's bad. Do you care about your rep? Your credibility as a candidate? Anytime you agree to join an organization, you agree in principle that you're 100% satisfied with whatever package has been offered, thoroughly thought it out, evaluated all alternatives and are SURE! You put yourself and your ethics on the line. Backing out of an agreement for any reason other than the most extreme of circumstances is an embarassment, shows a lack of ethics, and is plain dirty.

If you can't be trusted for your word, you're unhireable.

The legality is one thing. The morals have to be considered, too. Nyk4ever is right. Where has the integrity gone? People think that this is okay behavior are an embarassment. Sorry, dude.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:08 PM]


LOL Solace... alright whose legs and feet do you want to cement so they can be pitched in a river?

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-05-2007 6:44 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Pharzeone
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6/5/2007  1:16 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Verbal committments under "good faith" are considered binding contracts in most tort cases.
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Solace
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6/5/2007  1:18 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

LOL Solace... alright whose legs and feet do want to cement so they can be pitched in a river?

Everyone. I hate people with no integrity. Some of these things were always among the 'unwritten' rules of business. Now they've become so commonplace that people's word means NOTHING. It's disgusting.

Sorry if my views are strong, but what does 'ACCEPT' mean to you? It doesn't mean 'maybe' or 'let me think it over', that's for sure.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
martin
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6/5/2007  1:27 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Your two statements already contradict themselves and clearly show it's in bad taste. Yes, it's bad. Do you care about your rep? Your credibility as a candidate? Anytime you agree to join an organization, you agree in principle that you're 100% satisfied with whatever package has been offered, thoroughly thought it out, evaluated all alternatives and are SURE! You put yourself and your ethics on the line. Backing out of an agreement for any reason other than the most extreme of circumstances is an embarassment, shows a lack of ethics, and is plain dirty.

If you can't be trusted for your word, you're unhireable.

The legality is one thing. The morals have to be considered, too. Nyk4ever is right. Where has the integrity gone? People think that this is okay behavior are an embarassment. Sorry, dude.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:08 PM]

I assure you, if you are gonna base your business and business experience on handshake agreements, you'll fail sooner or later unless you are apart of a local neighborhood kinda thing.
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Nalod
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6/5/2007  1:28 PM
If Orlando was SVG 1st choice, then with the knowledge (implied) that Donovan was signing on, then SAC should be gracious to understand this and not make a big deal over it.

Its ethical to go back on a handshake deal if not all information is present.

While SVG might have been asked if he wanted to coach Sac, was he actually offered the job?

If Mrs. SVG has ties to florida and family in the area (grampa VG) perhaps its a better family situation.

There was a situation the last few weeks with the Creighton coach backing out on a deal I think to Arkansas because he realized he belonged back in Omaha.

I think when your Wooed and recruited very heavily to leave a job to another it becomes a real emotional problem to leave a place your happy in.

In this case, Orlando really put the screws to Billy and Billy did not think it thru enough. Or at least he was happy to have the orlando job but did not realize how bad he would feel leaving Florida until he actually had to cut ties.

It was not a money issue for any of the parties. Its not like he held them up for more money or wanted to go to a higher paying Coaching gig else where.

I don't have a problem with Billy backing out 48 hours after. Orlando had a tight time agenda and did not do anything wrong, nor did Billy, its just that nobody knew the right way to do it until it was too late.

I think Orlando could impress upon Billy not take an NBA job for 5 years but to what purpose does that serve. BIlly is loved in central florida and the campus is only 118 miles away. Perhaps in a few years it may be a better fit for Billy to move. And Orlando would be wise to keep that option open.
martin
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6/5/2007  1:32 PM
^ perhaps my choice of the word "bad" is not right. Naive is better.
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Solace
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6/5/2007  1:35 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Your two statements already contradict themselves and clearly show it's in bad taste. Yes, it's bad. Do you care about your rep? Your credibility as a candidate? Anytime you agree to join an organization, you agree in principle that you're 100% satisfied with whatever package has been offered, thoroughly thought it out, evaluated all alternatives and are SURE! You put yourself and your ethics on the line. Backing out of an agreement for any reason other than the most extreme of circumstances is an embarassment, shows a lack of ethics, and is plain dirty.

If you can't be trusted for your word, you're unhireable.

The legality is one thing. The morals have to be considered, too. Nyk4ever is right. Where has the integrity gone? People think that this is okay behavior are an embarassment. Sorry, dude.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:08 PM]

I assure you, if you are gonna base your business and business experience on handshake agreements, you'll fail sooner or later unless you are apart of a local neighborhood kinda thing.

Nobody said to base their business on it. But clearly not every job has legally binding contracts. Most jobs don't (obviously basketball does). So, here's the scenario. Prospective employee agrees to offer, sends in some paperwork like NDAs, company starts preparing for new employee, orders new cubicle, new PC, assigns two employees to prepare for new employee's hire AND skips over another possible candidate, who instead goes to a different company. Then, the prospective employee 'changes his mind'. No, it's not okay, and there better be a damn good explanation. Him being an indecisive jerk just cost the company $10k and another good alternative.

In a vacuum, individual incidents may not seem so bad, but it also the principle of the matter. You ****ing agreed to come aboard for $xyz dollars under xyz conditions. Now you changed your mind. Immature at best.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:37 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
martin
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6/5/2007  2:01 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Solace:

Even better is not committing until you're sure. Backing on a handshake agreement is also bad.

are you part of the mafia or something? There is a reason we have written contracts and hot handshake agreements.

Backing out on a handshake agreement may be bad form, and it'll certainly catch up to you in the future if you pull that kind of maneuver at the wrong juncture or too many times, but it's not bad.

Your two statements already contradict themselves and clearly show it's in bad taste. Yes, it's bad. Do you care about your rep? Your credibility as a candidate? Anytime you agree to join an organization, you agree in principle that you're 100% satisfied with whatever package has been offered, thoroughly thought it out, evaluated all alternatives and are SURE! You put yourself and your ethics on the line. Backing out of an agreement for any reason other than the most extreme of circumstances is an embarassment, shows a lack of ethics, and is plain dirty.

If you can't be trusted for your word, you're unhireable.

The legality is one thing. The morals have to be considered, too. Nyk4ever is right. Where has the integrity gone? People think that this is okay behavior are an embarassment. Sorry, dude.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:08 PM]

I assure you, if you are gonna base your business and business experience on handshake agreements, you'll fail sooner or later unless you are apart of a local neighborhood kinda thing.

Nobody said to base their business on it. But clearly not every job has legally binding contracts. Most jobs don't (obviously basketball does). So, here's the scenario. Prospective employee agrees to offer, sends in some paperwork like NDAs, company starts preparing for new employee, orders new cubicle, new PC, assigns two employees to prepare for new employee's hire AND skips over another possible candidate, who instead goes to a different company. Then, the prospective employee 'changes his mind'. No, it's not okay, and there better be a damn good explanation. Him being an indecisive jerk just cost the company $10k and another good alternative.

In a vacuum, individual incidents may not seem so bad, but it also the principle of the matter. You ****ing agreed to come aboard for $xyz dollars under xyz conditions. Now you changed your mind. Immature at best.

[Edited by - Solace on Jun 05 2007 1:37 PM]

happens all the time. Better start opening your eyes. Most employee agreements are at will so firing/hiring, staying/quiting happen at a moments notice and smart employers actually plan for this kind of thing, so it's naive to think that $10K are lost and good alternatives are expired. And that's why employment offers are followed by a written letter offer.

Seriously, I want to know how many years you have been working and what your experience is.
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Solace
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6/5/2007  2:06 PM
Posted by martin:

happens all the time. Better start opening your eyes. Most employee agreements are at will so firing/hiring, staying/quiting happen at a moments notice and smart employers actually plan for this kind of thing, so it's naive to think that $10K are lost and good alternatives are expired. And that's why employment offers are followed by a written letter offer.

Seriously, I want to know how many years you have been working and what your experience is.

Again, we're in 100% agreement that this happens all the time. I'm not niave to the situation, as you seem to be misinterpreting. I've been working in the software industry for six full years. Again, nobody said employers weren't reasonably prepared either. I don't know where you're interpreting that. I'm talking about the morals. You're talking about it happens, which I agree with; it happens. But my argument is that it's not right.

As for employment offers, they are followed by a written letter offer, but it's not binding, since everything is at will. Prospective employees can go back on these and have. Is it legal, YES. I never stated otherwise. Is it right? No.

I also acknowledged, that in extreme circumstances, like an ill family member in another state or citizenship issues, it's understandable. These are rarely the case. Usually it's just people who can't make up their mind. That's unfortunate and MORALLY wrong.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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