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OT: Is Chauncy Billups Finally Exposed?
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TrueBlue
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5/29/2007  11:42 PM
I've always thought he had a slight element of overratedness although I feel he's a very good point gaurd but he's going to be 31yrs starting next yr is he really worth a Max Contract?
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bigpimpin
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5/29/2007  11:49 PM
Oh god, if Billups isn't worth a MAX contract then who is?

Huh? Who is TrueBlue?

What should the owners do with all that money they make some ticket buyers who come to see Billups perform? What about the Titles? The clutch shots? You base your decision on what? One game? A quarter? A certain play? What?

Sir, if you don't mind, I need to know your thoery so I can better test it.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
BlueSeats
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5/29/2007  11:50 PM
I still like Billips but he wouldn't be the first PG to peak under Brown. And the question remains whether the team will ever be as good as they were under Brown?
bigpimpin
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5/29/2007  11:55 PM
Blue, c'mon now you know better than that.

Of course they are not going to be better than they were under Brown. Different team, different era, different players. Different coaches. Are you going to hold a Conf Finals appearance against the team?> It's a wonder Dumars has the team still contending for championships. In todays NBA, it's kinda hard to continously win championships when your team doesn't have a "superstar" player.

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
TrueBlue
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5/30/2007  12:00 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I still like Billips but he wouldn't be the first PG to peak under Brown. And the question remains whether the team will ever be as good as they were under Brown?

He was a player who fought with Brown in the beginning but then took to his coaching and Presto Finals MVP!

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 05-29-2007 11:01 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
BlueSeats
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5/30/2007  12:01 AM
Posted by bigpimpin:

Blue, c'mon now you know better than that.

Of course they are not going to be better than they were under Brown. Different team, different era, different players. Different coaches. Are you going to hold a Conf Finals appearance against the team?> It's a wonder Dumars has the team still contending for championships. In todays NBA, it's kinda hard to continously win championships when your team doesn't have a "superstar" player.


You make it all sound so obvious. Last year when they got off to a nice start half the fans of the world thought they were vastly improved by being "unshackled" from Brown, the team wrecker. Then this year they were supposed to be vastly improved with the addition of Webber. I'm glad you see things as I do but no need to drag me for saying what needs to be said.
highfivesucka
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5/30/2007  12:07 AM
I don't think Billups is overrated, but nobody's worth a max contract. Yet I don't see him leaving Detroit. He'd be a fool to leave what he has in Detroit for the money; so would Rip, Prince and Sheed.
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newyorknewyork
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5/30/2007  12:19 AM
They really should have never beat Lakers in the first place. The only reason why they beat the Lakers were because Shaq & Kobe were at very serious odds at the time. If Shaq & Kobe were getting along I don't think they win the finals that yr. But thats just my opinion. Then there is also the fact that Dumars was given Rasheed Wallace for chump change, which made them strong enough to beat the Nets in 7. Though I can't knock them for capitalizing on great opportunities.

They are still going to go to the finals this yr. But the Spurs are going to win the championship in 6 though its very possible it goes 7.
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Pharzeone
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5/30/2007  1:48 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I still like Billips but he wouldn't be the first PG to peak under Brown. And the question remains whether the team will ever be as good as they were under Brown?

Blue, are you starting this Larry Brown stuff again... I will continue to cite CBS Sportsline # 5 "Most overrated coaching performance" For pete's sake Larry Brown's Pistons were constantly in elimination games. And we are now going to kill this Piston team for being 2-2. Hell that would be a luxury for that Brown team.

5. Larry Brown (2004 NBA championship): It's one thing to be the only coach to win it all at the college and pro level, it's another to take a team that reached the conference championship the year before and improve it by only four games during the regular season and then backdoor a world championship against the headcase Lakers. I'm not saying Larry Brown isn't one of the greatest coaches of all time, just that the 2003-04 banner really should be credited to Joe Dumars, the state of Colorado vs. Kobe Bryant, and Wendy's for making such delicious and affordable food readily available to Shaq.
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BlueSeats
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5/30/2007  2:12 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I still like Billips but he wouldn't be the first PG to peak under Brown. And the question remains whether the team will ever be as good as they were under Brown?

Blue, are you starting this Larry Brown stuff again... I will continue to cite CBS Sportsline # 5 "Most overrated coaching performance" For pete's sake Larry Brown's Pistons were constantly in elimination games. And we are now going to kill this Piston team for being 2-2. Hell that would be a luxury for that Brown team.

5. Larry Brown (2004 NBA championship): It's one thing to be the only coach to win it all at the college and pro level, it's another to take a team that reached the conference championship the year before and improve it by only four games during the regular season and then backdoor a world championship against the headcase Lakers. I'm not saying Larry Brown isn't one of the greatest coaches of all time, just that the 2003-04 banner really should be credited to Joe Dumars, the state of Colorado vs. Kobe Bryant, and Wendy's for making such delicious and affordable food readily available to Shaq.

Big woof, it's good press to take swipes at Brown, but I can't remember a team that did better without him. Ask Mo Cheeks, Buck Willimas, Albert King, Danny Manning, Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Antonio Davis, Rick Smits, Allan Iverson, Eric Snow, et al, who they and their team peaked under.

And can we please stop pretending beating the Lakers was a fluke. That was, on paper, supposed to be one of the best teams ever.

And the question of Chauncey and the Pistons still remains to be answered. Sometimes the difference between the championship or not are the last two minutes of a couple of key games. If Larry could get them where Carlisle and Flip can't, what will it tell you?
TrueBlue
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5/30/2007  2:16 AM
The Pistons did have back-to-back Finals appearances under LB so that should say a whole lot.
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Pharzeone
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5/30/2007  2:25 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

The Pistons did have back-to-back Finals appearances under LB so that should say a whole lot.

In 2005, the Heat had a commanding lead in the Eastern Conference finals until both O'Neil and Wade had significant injuries. As a matter of coincidence this is when the Pistons started to play better in the series and was able to win the series.

The Heat would go on to lose against the defending champion Detroit Pistons in 7 games during the Eastern Conference Finals. Wade scored 40 and 36 points in Games 2 and 3 respectively, despite playing with sinusitis, the flu,and a knee strain. He also suffered a strained rib muscle in Game 5 of the Conference Finals that kept him out of Game 6,[18] and limited him in Game 7. The Heat lost the series 4–3 after giving up a 3–2 lead,[19] and a lead in the final 3 minutes of Game 7. - Wikipedia

With O'Neal on board, the new-look Heat surpassed expectations, claiming the best record in the Eastern Conference. Despite being hobbled by a deep thigh bruise, O'Neal lead the Heat to the Eastern Conference Finals and a Game 7 against the defending champion Detroit Pistons, losing by a narrow margin. - Wikipedia



[Edited by - pharzeone on 30-05-2007 02:26 AM]
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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5/30/2007  2:36 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by BlueSeats:

I still like Billips but he wouldn't be the first PG to peak under Brown. And the question remains whether the team will ever be as good as they were under Brown?

Blue, are you starting this Larry Brown stuff again... I will continue to cite CBS Sportsline # 5 "Most overrated coaching performance" For pete's sake Larry Brown's Pistons were constantly in elimination games. And we are now going to kill this Piston team for being 2-2. Hell that would be a luxury for that Brown team.

5. Larry Brown (2004 NBA championship): It's one thing to be the only coach to win it all at the college and pro level, it's another to take a team that reached the conference championship the year before and improve it by only four games during the regular season and then backdoor a world championship against the headcase Lakers. I'm not saying Larry Brown isn't one of the greatest coaches of all time, just that the 2003-04 banner really should be credited to Joe Dumars, the state of Colorado vs. Kobe Bryant, and Wendy's for making such delicious and affordable food readily available to Shaq.

Big woof, it's good press to take swipes at Brown, but I can't remember a team that did better without him. Ask Mo Cheeks, Buck Willimas, Albert King, Danny Manning, Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Antonio Davis, Rick Smits, Allan Iverson, Eric Snow, et al, who they and their team peaked under.

And can we please stop pretending beating the Lakers was a fluke. That was, on paper, supposed to be one of the best teams ever.

And the question of Chauncey and the Pistons still remains to be answered. Sometimes the difference between the championship or not are the last two minutes of a couple of key games. If Larry could get them where Carlisle and Flip can't, what will it tell you?

Tell me how did Larry function in the last two minutes of Game 7 of the 2005 Finals? Or should I say the second half. How did Billups function under him? I don't know how much credit I can give Brown for a team that has now been in the Eastern Conference finals for 5 straight years with him only there for 2 of them. If they get pass the Cavs, are we now considering Flip Saunders a great coach too? All I am saying Billups developed into the player he is now before Brown arrived and after he left. I am sure he had some impact on his game but I am equally convince that Saunders had some impact on his game as well. Coaches tend to do that but to just be bias and try to skew it towards Brown direction is laughable. The series are tied. Take a deep breath and enjoy the games.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BlueSeats
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5/30/2007  2:53 AM
Pharz, trying to discredit being one win away from two consecutive championships reeks of pettiness.

Detroit has yet to surpass their performance under Brown, and it remains to be seen if they will do so in the future.

I like Detroit, I'd be happy to see them win a couple more chips, but I personally felt better about them under brown than I do Flip. I think they were more focused, less ****y, and were better set in their identity.
EnySpree
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5/30/2007  7:53 AM
Is this about chancey or brown?

I think chancey should bolt to the highest bidder like Ben Wallace did. The team itself is losing a step. Only guys playing hard are mcdyess and rip. They are still a good team but you can see that its getting a little redundant/boring.

This group had a good run. Let's see if dumars can revamp the team and still stay above the competition.
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Nalod
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5/30/2007  9:19 AM
Billups had a bad game, is that being exposed?
franco12
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5/30/2007  9:35 AM
I think Detroit is being exposed. They're all a step slower and not as hungry. They're still clutch performers- but Lebron is coming into his own as a superstar.

Basketball is the one sport where one outstanding player can dominate. That doesn't happen in other sports to the same degree.

That is why to win a championship, you really need to have a top player.
Pharzeone
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5/30/2007  9:41 AM
Posted by franco12:

I think Detroit is being exposed. They're all a step slower and not as hungry. They're still clutch performers- but Lebron is coming into his own as a superstar.

Basketball is the one sport where one outstanding player can dominate. That doesn't happen in other sports to the same degree.

That is why to win a championship, you really need to have a top player.

Please support this. Since this has been their best playoff run the last 5 years. They lost 4 games the entire playoff run and somehow they are having trouble. Beautiful.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
jazz74
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5/30/2007  10:14 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Billups had a bad game, is that being exposed?

exactly! everyone has a bad game. just ask lebron. he missed a clutch shot and everyone thinks he is declining. he if he makes 75% of those type of shots, he is great in my book. he is a point guard who controls tempo, play defense, lead the team better than most and make the right decisions in crunch time. what more do you want from a point guard? detroit has been down this road before and they know how to bounce back. they have the experience and toughness to win this series, which is something we have to wait and see if cleveland can counter.
MS
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5/30/2007  10:21 AM
Yeah they are really losing a step......

They have Rip still in his prime, Prince the most underated player in the nba, maxiel who would average a double double if they played him more, and draft selections one of which is the magics pick.

I think they are still in a better position than all put 3 teams in the conference for the next four years
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