Hey, better that the team knows this now instead of in November.

No more betting on the Dice. He's done.

The Knicks have the ultimate quack medical staff. If you suffer a career threatening injury in New York, might as well just hang up the kicks. Don't bother trying to make a comeback. Injuries suffered in New York just don't heal. Add Norman Scott to the list of people who's gotta go for this franchise to move up.

Don't forget Bernard King and LJ.

How well did Phoenix do with him on the team? Denver? You see my point yet? Individual stats mean diddly when the team sucks.

~DefandReb

Well said.......

Posted by fmoran:

Webber, Shaq, Duncan, and KG are the best post players in the WORLD, let alone the league. How is that a fair comparison to Dice? When healthy, he'd be a top ten power forward in a league with the above and Sheed, JO, Brand, and others.

If he's our best player, he'd better be one of the best PLAYERS in the league, not just one of the top 10 or 15 PF's. Enough mediocrity, already. We have the highest payroll, we should have at least one of the top 5 players in the league on our team. If not, then a group of players in the top 30. We're not even close.

And, Sheed, JO, and Brand are not good enough for what I'm talking about. We need the best.

You can talk about how much of a loser he was in Phoneix, but uh, so was JKidd, and with identical stats, he becomes an MVP candidate with the Nets.

Yes, sometimes guys take time to light up, but McD did not turn Denver into a contender, and he should have. Phoenix remained at least a competitive team without him. Nets are not a championship-calibur team, btw.

You can talk about how much of a loser he was in Denver, but they haven't come close to winning 40 games since, and look at what Raef and Nick have done on a winning team. Say what you want about them not making the playoffs, but 40 games in the west is more than most East playoff teams would win this year.

Raef? They can't wait to trade his weak game out of there. Nick is a backup. Nash, Finley, and Dirk are the stars of that team. That Denver team was supposed to be competing for Western conference honors, and McD was just not as good as the other go-to guys.

How can you say he's just a guy who gets 20 and 10 on a bad team and not a guy who makes a good team great when he hasn't been given the chance yet?

With three surgeries to the same knee, he doesn't get anymore chances. Look at the odds.

Yeah, injuries suck, but it doesn't take away from the player he is when healthy. I guess Grant Hill wasn't all that when he was healthy either.

Did Detroit ever get to the Eastern Conference Finals with him? Did they even come close? No. Hill is a very good player who has been overrated - annointed as being great when he is just very good. It isn't enough to be very good and try to carry a team. You have to be the best of the best.

Yeah, I'm being stubborn. I refuse to call him a bust until I see him miss all of next season because even though it looks bad now, you never know.

Odds. Look at the odds. Ever known anyone to come back from three (3) knee surgeries? No. It doesn't happen. If it does, hey, great, it's a miracle. But I don't go through life expecting miracles to happen. I expect McD never to be able to play at anything above bench-player level, and that's if he's really, really lucky.

Pretend he's never coming back, and build the team as though he isn't on it. That's the first thing of many that has to happen with the Knicks. Being competitive in the East is not a goal, it's an admission of failure. Think Allen Iverson wants to be competitive in the East? No way. He wants to lay everything to waste in his path. If AI were 6-10, no one would be safe.

Posted by fmoran:

- How many superstars does Detroit have? Or Indiana? Or Portland? And these aren't exactly mediocre ball clubs, either. A top 10 PF completely changes the outlook of this team, and this franchise. Why do you think everyone's upset about passing up a guy like Amare, who's already top 10 PF in the west and has a lot of time to improve? A healthy McDyess is an All-Star in the East, maybe even a starter.

- You're absolutely nuts. Only four or five guys in the league could have turned Denver into a title contender. Who expected Dice to?

- Who said the Nets were championship-caliber? I know I didn't. I just said Jason kidd became an MVP candidate, and he did come in second behind Tim Duncan in '02.

- Raef is the guy that guards Shaq, and sure he had a bad season, but that was injury related as well. He's still a young, strong center who gets his share of minutes on a 60 win team. And don't underplay Nick just because he comes off the bench. He's Dallas' Bobby Jackson: plays the sparkplug for an elite team when he could start anywhere else.

- We'll never know if Grant Hill would have won a ring, but he was a great player before injuries. If KG or T-Mac had career-ending injuries tomorrow, are we gonna deny how great they were because they never won a playoff series?

- Again, I'm not gonna argue. It looks bad right now for Dice. And I agree, now's the time to establish the back up plan, but let's not give up all hope on Dice. If he's here for one more year, this next season, we should hope for his return, and expect his contribution, at least for this year. If he doesn't, he's gone, we all look back at what a crap trade that turned out to be, and fall back on the rebuilding plan. But 3 surgeries isn't exactly 3 injuries. I'm looking at this third one as a precaution. And yeah, I'm being widely optimistic, but that's just me.

- The one thing I can't do is agree that McDyess wasn't all that, he would've sucked anyways, and so on. He woulda been exactly what the Knicks needed. No doubt.

This team would have been in the playoffs with a healthy Dice. But the thing is he isn't healthy and the Knicks should approach the situation like he isn't going to play a game for them next year. If they think that he will play for them then that is the mistake they are making going into next year. They won't make the playoffs thinking like that. Think the worst and take the proper action. They still need a center so go after a center who can give you decent post play someone like a Olo. This way the Knicks would address their height situation and they can play KT at his more natural position. This gives the Knicks a decent lineup.

Spree sf
KT pf
Olo c
Houston sg
Eisley g

Defense was missing ingredient this year due to the lack of height with this lineup they have legit center. If Dice does make it back then they have a team that can make a run.

Spree sf
Dice pf
Olo c
Houston sg
Eisley/Ward

Bench: KT, Anderson, Doleac, Spoon, Williams, Ward, Harrington and Draft Picks Thats not to bad a team.

Posted by DefAndReb:

Posted by fmoran:

- How many superstars does Detroit have? Or Indiana? Or Portland? And these aren't exactly mediocre ball clubs, either.

Yes, they are. The Eastern conference is a backdoor for a lame team like last year's Nets to get to the Finals without any real competition, the ECF being the illusion it is. The Blazers are probably as good as, or better than, any team in the East, but they are the 6th seed in the West. If you are happy seeing the Knicks becoming as good as the Pistons or Pacers, then you are no different from Dolan, Mills and Layden. As a fan, 1994 is nothing to be happy about. The Knicks lost.

I want a team better than anything the East has right now. Even with a healthy McD, you're talking about being the 3rd or 4th best team in a loser conference. Big deal. History only remembers the winner. Conference Schmonference.

Do I think the Knicks can get one of the best 5 players in the league right now? No. So, a GM should be scouting for the guys who are best in the league in 5 years.

Tanking was a great solution, that was never used. If properly manipulated the KNicks could have developed William and at the sametime been a legit contender for the LBJ sweeps. Lets stop hoping for thing the knicks can never have. Its been 3 championships in 117 years of Hockey and Basketball in MSG. It should tell you guys its not about winning its just about making the fans content with a product. They will give you a Cadillac when we could get a Mercedes for the same money. We are being duped .

Posted by fmoran:

Only three teams are contending this year. Does that make every other team mediocre to bad? No, it doesn't. Detroit has the best outlook of any team this side of San Antonio. 1 great player short of contending, and they have a great pick, and cap space to add him. They'll only get better. Indiana has the most talented roster this side of Dallas and Saceramento. Don't let their record fool you: if Artest hadn't gone off, they would have won 50+. That's another great young team that'll only get better. When Portland is on and together, they are contenders.

But you're dreaming. Look at the three teams that are title contenders right now: LA, Sac, and the Spurs. They ALL HAVE #1 DRAFT PICKS. All of them. Should we pull a Cleveland and ship everyone out until we win the lotto? Or should we establish a good team, like Detroit and Sacramento, that great players want to play for? Well the first step is making the playoffs. Once we're there, we look higher.

As a fan, 1994 is nothing to be happy about. The Knicks lost.

This is so ignorant. As a fan, this was one of the greatest teams in franchise history. Unfortunately, we conincided with Mike. Big deal. Are you gonna sit here and tell me that Ewing meant nothing to the Knicks?

You are right it is a gradual step process which starts with Young players. We know that the KNicks don't develop young players they acquire veterans. If the KNicks want ever to think about Championship then they have to think Young players and develop them. I am a believer of home grown superstar. Drafted and developed. The Knicks haven't done that since Pat Ewing who by the way was a number one pick. It starts with high draft picks these are usually the can't miss player and the chance of them not making it is less risky. Yeah we all want the Knicks to compete at a high level but an old team making the playoff as an 8 seed won't win much but have 2 games in the playoffs at home. A young team as an 8 seed has potential to do damage in the future because they will get better. There is only one way for an old team to go and that back into the lottery. The Knicks would have been wise to lose more games during the season and now they stand to lose the 9th spot to the Wizards. Draft is just as important as the playoffs because it will determine if the franchise has a winning future.

You use Detroit as an example they are a loaded team with high draft picks. That were traded for. Rip Hamilton was a 7th pick, Corlis Williamson was a lottery pick, Billups was a 5 pick, Wallace was lottery pick, Robinson was a 18 or 22 pick If I recall right he was a NYK pick traded for Kiki. This year they have Memphis pick which is going to yeild them maybe top three pick of at least 6th pick in the lottery.

Playoffs are great and next year we will experience them but wouldn't it have been great to have experience with say a leBron, Milicic or Anthony on our side. Young potential superstar players getting exposed to the playoffs, You guys remember when Pat went to the Playoffs for the first time it felt like this guy was going to get us a championship one day. You want that feeling then you have to get it through the draft. You don't think Detroit isn't think the same right now even though they are in the playoffs they can see visions of Milicic and Anthony dancing in their head after what T-Mac is doing to them. They want the superstar thats going to take them to the next level.