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Chaney will be coach for two more seasons
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fishmike
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4/16/2003  1:23 PM
Houston was a top 10 scorer a week ago. If he's dropped to 11 I apologize.

Again, X's and O's is a style thing. Phil Jackson has said over and over he doesnt call plays during games. He doesnt coach during the game at all in fact. He trys to prepare his players best he can and let them play.

Don Nelson STUNCK in GS and wasnt much better here, yet he's one of the NBA's elite coach/GMs in Dallas.

How did the Lakers start without Shaq. Is the 11-19 start because of X's and O's?

Hows Pat Riley doing without Zo? Eddie Jones and Caron Butler are their Houston and Spree, yet with a frontcourt as bad as ours they STINK.

Speaking of the Rockets, they look to be turning the corner, because they were terrible the last two years. Think that has anything to do with Hakeem going out to pasture?

You probably think I am just making excuses for Chaney. I'm not, I am can only go by what I see. The Knicks have NO frontcourt, its a total joke. When McKnee broke most picked the Knicks to win around 25 games, yet Chaney pushed them to 37, and had them in a legit playoff hunt with two weeks to go. Under his system the are among tops in 3 point %, fewest turnovers and 3's made. Most of all the team plays hard and hve come up with MANY suprise wins, NJ,Ind, Sac, San, LAL, Hou, Pho...as a matter of fact the Knicks are the only East team with an about .500 record against the West.

All I am saying is he's improved the club, and right now isnt part of the problem. If Laydumb improves the club and Chaney fails to produce results equal to the talent fire him. Until them I like him as our coach.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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necrom33
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4/16/2003  2:21 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Houston was a top 10 scorer a week ago. If he's dropped to 11 I apologize.

Again, X's and O's is a style thing. Phil Jackson has said over and over he doesnt call plays during games. He doesnt coach during the game at all in fact. He trys to prepare his players best he can and let them play.

Don Nelson STUNCK in GS and wasnt much better here, yet he's one of the NBA's elite coach/GMs in Dallas.

How did the Lakers start without Shaq. Is the 11-19 start because of X's and O's?

Hows Pat Riley doing without Zo? Eddie Jones and Caron Butler are their Houston and Spree, yet with a frontcourt as bad as ours they STINK.

Speaking of the Rockets, they look to be turning the corner, because they were terrible the last two years. Think that has anything to do with Hakeem going out to pasture?

You probably think I am just making excuses for Chaney. I'm not, I am can only go by what I see. The Knicks have NO frontcourt, its a total joke. When McKnee broke most picked the Knicks to win around 25 games, yet Chaney pushed them to 37, and had them in a legit playoff hunt with two weeks to go. Under his system the are among tops in 3 point %, fewest turnovers and 3's made. Most of all the team plays hard and hve come up with MANY suprise wins, NJ,Ind, Sac, San, LAL, Hou, Pho...as a matter of fact the Knicks are the only East team with an about .500 record against the West.

All I am saying is he's improved the club, and right now isnt part of the problem. If Laydumb improves the club and Chaney fails to produce results equal to the talent fire him. Until them I like him as our coach.

So pretty much it boils down to "blame the players, credit the coach"? Sorry, I ain't buying. Chaney is paid for a reason. His job includes preparing his team to play, and adjusting to the game as it unfolds. You can quote Phil all you want, but to put Non Chaney in his category (or Riley's) is blatantly offensive.

Somone posts that Non is a 'transitional' coach. That's an entirely different thing and I can agree with that. But NY, foolish as it may seem, is always geared towards the NOW, so Non is not brought in to teach, but to WIN.

But since you insist on naming talent, off the top of my head I can tell you Non has lost with Isiah, Hill, Dumars, Hakeem (when he was the best Center in the game!) and even Allan Housless.

As far as the Rockets: check out their record while Rudy-T was out. But it shouldn't matter, there should be no drop-off cuz the same players are there. Coaching doesn't matter.

You can like Non as your coach; that's obviously your right. I think if he left tomorrow and you brought back this EXACT same team with a good coach, NY would be in the playoffs.
gunsnewing
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4/16/2003  2:48 PM
couldn't have said it better Mike
BigSm00th
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4/16/2003  3:34 PM
"I think if he left tomorrow and you brought back this EXACT same team with a good coach, NY would be in the playoffs." How you can make that statement is beyond me. The guy is a good coach, I would go to the reasons on why but fishmike's alreday named them all. I agree with him.
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fishmike
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4/16/2003  3:48 PM
no he's right.

A better coach would make the 6'5, 6'8 and 6'8 starting Knick front court not be dead last in the league in rebounds, blocked shots and points in the paint. Clearly Don failed to teach Kurt, Harrington, Spoon and Sprewell to rebound and block shots and score in the post. All coaching.

Everytime I would see other teams PFs and centers like Jermain Oniel, Gasol, Duncan, Ratliff, Brad Miller, Antoine Walker, Ben Wallace, Magloire, Curry...(the list never ends) simply abuse Kurt and Harrington and block Spoon's shot on every layup I would wonder WHY DOESNT CHANEY TELL THEM TO PLAY BETTER!!!!

Its kind of funny. I guess you have to ask yourself what has been the cause of this team's downfall in the past 4 years?

Is it
a) Ewing, LJ as starters are replaced by Kurt and Othella.
Camby, Sprewell, Childs and Thomas as the core bench players replaced by Shanvis EisleySpoon.

or

b) coaching.

I guess you have to look at the team and the games and ask yourself why we only won 37 games.

Clearly talent has nothing to do with it....i vote for b
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
necrom33
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4/16/2003  3:49 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"I think if he left tomorrow and you brought back this EXACT same team with a good coach, NY would be in the playoffs." How you can make that statement is beyond me. The guy is a good coach, I would go to the reasons on why but fishmike's alreday named them all. I agree with him.

I can make it based on the fact that the guy has lost EVERYWHERE he's been for the vast majority of his career, and upon his departure (he's been fired from EVERY job) the teams have improved IMMEDIATELY AND SIGNIFICANTLY.

Somehow this is coming across to you gentleman as an oversimplification or exaggeration on my part. It's NOT. It's a statistical fact. What is speculation is that I'd be that those teams had fans making excuses for Non as well!

Regardless, I've seen Chaney for far too long to be fooled by this season. Next year, some other excuse will come up... it really doesn't matter anymore. He's here as long as he wants to be. In the Daily News today I read that LayDUMB has never fired a coach in all his years as an NBA executive. It's Chaney's job as long as he wants it!
Vmart
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4/16/2003  4:02 PM
Posted by necrom33:
Posted by BigSm00th:

"I think if he left tomorrow and you brought back this EXACT same team with a good coach, NY would be in the playoffs." How you can make that statement is beyond me. The guy is a good coach, I would go to the reasons on why but fishmike's alreday named them all. I agree with him.

I can make it based on the fact that the guy has lost EVERYWHERE he's been for the vast majority of his career, and upon his departure (he's been fired from EVERY job) the teams have improved IMMEDIATELY AND SIGNIFICANTLY.

Somehow this is coming across to you gentleman as an oversimplification or exaggeration on my part. It's NOT. It's a statistical fact. What is speculation is that I'd be that those teams had fans making excuses for Non as well!

Regardless, I've seen Chaney for far too long to be fooled by this season. Next year, some other excuse will come up... it really doesn't matter anymore. He's here as long as he wants to be. In the Daily News today I read that LayDUMB has never fired a coach in all his years as an NBA executive. It's Chaney's job as long as he wants it!

Not to worry, if the Knicks don't bust out the gate next year then Layden will be gone. The next person that comes in will fire Chaney. Lets hope the Knicks bust out the gate fast and win the East hope for lotto luck hope for Vujanic hope for Dice hope for Spree and his boat don't sink hope for a Big man to save the Knicks. A lot of Hoping going on here.
fishmike
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4/16/2003  4:10 PM
so based on that "statistical fact" if you inserted Don Chaney as the head coach of Spurs this year that team would fail. Or if Chaney was coaching the Heat right now their 25 wins would be HIS fault right?

I am not comparing Chaney to Riley or Jackson, just making a point that coaching is situational. My examples "statisticly prove" that even coaches with GREAT winning track records can have losing records depending on the situation.

Your blowing smoke.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/16/2003  4:17 PM
http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1050215277157930.xml

Chaney's got more people fooled. Sean Elliot, Larry Brown...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
necrom33
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4/16/2003  5:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:

so based on that "statistical fact" if you inserted Don Chaney as the head coach of Spurs this year that team would fail. Or if Chaney was coaching the Heat right now their 25 wins would be HIS fault right?

I am not comparing Chaney to Riley or Jackson, just making a point that coaching is situational. My examples "statisticly prove" that even coaches with GREAT winning track records can have losing records depending on the situation.

Your blowing smoke.

c'mon man. Sarcasm is the last resort when trying to argue a point. You twisting this like you're Chuck Berry, so I'll twist it right back at you: This season is simply a case of a bad coach with a losing track record getting lucky.

Now if you are one of the fans who's happy to settle with a playoff appearance and quick exit, Non is the man for you. I'm looking for NY to show improvement and canning Chaney, not extending him, would've been a move in the right direction.

And you seem to be inhaling...
Vmart
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4/16/2003  5:24 PM
Posted by necrom33:
Posted by fishmike:

so based on that "statistical fact" if you inserted Don Chaney as the head coach of Spurs this year that team would fail. Or if Chaney was coaching the Heat right now their 25 wins would be HIS fault right?

I am not comparing Chaney to Riley or Jackson, just making a point that coaching is situational. My examples "statisticly prove" that even coaches with GREAT winning track records can have losing records depending on the situation.

Your blowing smoke.

c'mon man. Sarcasm is the last resort when trying to argue a point. You twisting this like you're Chuck Berry, so I'll twist it right back at you: This season is simply a case of a bad coach with a losing track record getting lucky.

Now if you are one of the fans who's happy to settle with a playoff appearance and quick exit, Non is the man for you. I'm looking for NY to show improvement and canning Chaney, not extending him, would've been a move in the right direction.

And you seem to be inhaling...

I agree with you Chaney isn't the man for this team. He won't win you a championship. They shouldn't have given him the extension they should have given him a chance to show what he could do with a complete team and then evaluated whether to keep him or not. I for one wanted Micheal Cooper as the coach of the Knicks.
fishmike
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4/16/2003  5:25 PM
the sarcasm applies. Your whole arguement is based on Chaney's poor past performances, yet you chalk and good performances up to luck. Why do your rules only apply to Chaney and not any other coaches? Your arguement doesnt hold water, sorry.

As for winning titles here's a news flash:
It comes from the players, not the coaches.
Jordan/Pippen x6
Duncan x1
Shaq/Kobe x3
Hakeem x2

The last 12 titles have been won by the team that has THE BEST or even two best players in the NBA THAT YEAR. There are no cinderella's in the NBA.

When the Knicks have a championship caliber roster and Chaney can get them out of the second round you have a good point, we will need a proven post season performer.

Chaney has done a good job with this roster. Fire him now and some guy from the next team he's on will be saying "and look! he never did anything with the Knicks...he's a loser."
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
necrom33
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4/16/2003  6:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the sarcasm applies. Your whole arguement is based on Chaney's poor past performances, yet you chalk and good performances up to luck. Why do your rules only apply to Chaney and not any other coaches? Your arguement doesnt hold water, sorry.

As for winning titles here's a news flash:
It comes from the players, not the coaches.
Jordan/Pippen x6
Duncan x1
Shaq/Kobe x3
Hakeem x2

The last 12 titles have been won by the team that has THE BEST or even two best players in the NBA THAT YEAR. There are no cinderella's in the NBA.

When the Knicks have a championship caliber roster and Chaney can get them out of the second round you have a good point, we will need a proven post season performer.

Chaney has done a good job with this roster. Fire him now and some guy from the next team he's on will be saying "and look! he never did anything with the Knicks...he's a loser."

Damn, I had a whole long reply typed out and lost it! LOL

Suffice to say that Chaney has always lost, even when he had the premier big man in the league. The same player that Rudy worked with to TWO titles.

Keep hoping, someday this toad of a coach may turn into a prince.
fishmike
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4/16/2003  9:20 PM
"Keep hoping, someday this toad of a coach may turn into a prince."

maybe, maybe not. But remember, Spree had never played winning basketball and choked his coach before coming here....now's he's NYs most beloved Knick.

Joe Torre was garbage in previous managing situations.

I can only judge by what I see. This year the Knicks had major problems this year, but there were two bright spots. Chaney's system made a bad unbalanced, and ill concieved roster watchable.

The other bright spot was Houston. His contract is still bad, but he showed the kind of scoring people expected when he signed the contract in the first place.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
necrom33
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4/17/2003  9:59 AM
Posted by fishmike:

"Keep hoping, someday this toad of a coach may turn into a prince."

maybe, maybe not. But remember, Spree had never played winning basketball and choked his coach before coming here....now's he's NYs most beloved Knick.

Joe Torre was garbage in previous managing situations.

I can only judge by what I see. This year the Knicks had major problems this year, but there were two bright spots. Chaney's system made a bad unbalanced, and ill concieved roster watchable.

The other bright spot was Houston. His contract is still bad, but he showed the kind of scoring people expected when he signed the contract in the first place.

OK, fair enuff...
Chaney will be coach for two more seasons

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