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If The Knicks Morphed Into Winners, How Much Would You Still Hate Dolan?
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misterearl
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5/5/2007  8:52 AM
Even if the revelry was understated, team president Robert Rowell couldn't take his eyes off his longtime boss because he's one of the few people who really understands how much it meant to him after all the disappointment and embarrassment he's had to endure, including being booed mercilessly at the NBA All-Star Game in Oakland a few years back.

"For me, there's a lot of satisfaction just being able to watch Chris enjoy the playoffs and owning this team, because he has hung in there," Rowell said. "I think he deserves a ton of credit — of which he never gets — for first of all, letting us do our thing and providing us with every tool and resource to do our thing, and then, for believing in us to do it."

Ah yes, "We Believe." Over the course of 13 hard years, Cohan has taken his own Warriors faith to an uncanny extreme. Four general managers. Eight coaches. Countless players. The whole Latrell Sprewell nightmare. Todd Fuller instead of Kobe Bryant. Joe Smith instead of Kevin Garnett.

Most wealthy, successful businessmen would have surrendered by now, especially after putting as much passion and effort into trying to make it work as Cohan has.

He commandeered the rebuilding of the arena into a state-of-the-art facility. He footed the bill for a first-class downtown headquarters and training center. He's provided ample dough to try to make the team better and didn't meddle with the basketball operation, probably to his detriment until Chris Mullin came along to be his GM.

At long last, Cohan finally got it right, swallowing his pride and allowing the return of Don Nelson, a man he once fired, at Mullin's urging. How hard was that? Rowell maintained it wasn't, that Cohan just wanted to win, and when the two men first reunited, they embraced.

Mullin wasn't there to see the hug, but such a gesture doesn't surprise him.

"Having played for (Cohan) and also worked for him in the capacity I'm in now, the best thing I can say is he's always been consistent," Mullin said. "He's endured a lot of criticism. Probably in a lot of areas, it wasn't just. Your successes get overblown, and your failures get overblown. That's just the way it is. But to not let that deter what you are about, and what your goal is, is really the main thing. For him to stay in there speaks volumes."

- Oakland Tribune
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Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  8:57 AM
I didn't read most of that post but it would take A LOT of winning over many years to compensate for this decade of losing.
misterearl
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5/5/2007  8:59 AM
Why do you feel you are due years of compensation bonn?

The Golden State fans seem to be having a blast by partying in the moment.
once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  9:41 AM
So winning next year after about 8 or 9 years of failure is good enough? Will it be ok if the team is awful in 8 out of every 9 years in the future too? You can't just ignore past performance when evaluating an owner.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-05-2007 09:42 AM]
MaTT4281
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5/5/2007  9:44 AM
Winning won't stop Knick fans from hating Dolan, but it will draw away attention from him.
Step 1: Win.
Don't even bother looking ahead if we can't get that done first.
Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  9:47 AM
Let's examine the flip side: Would you, Earl, have a negative view of Dolan if the team is awful next year (i.e., awful for the seventh consecutive season)?
Vmart
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5/5/2007  11:03 AM
I don't hate Dolan he is basically paying for his first mistake which was Layden. Recovering from Layden is a monumental task because lets face it the Knicks were vastly depleted of talent. Building around an aging Spree and a gimpy H20 were bad idea's. The Knicks were never good at drafting in the past so very unlikely they were going to get good from that route. They would have taken on more Fredrick Wuss type players.

You can never hate on a owner with open pockets to improve his team, and Dolan has open pockets. He is like any owner with management, he delegates to his management to get things done. Management has failed him not Dolan.
Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by Vmart:

I don't hate Dolan he is basically paying for his first mistake which was Layden. Recovering from Layden is a monumental task because lets face it the Knicks were vastly depleted of talent. Building around an aging Spree and a gimpy H20 were bad idea's. The Knicks were never good at drafting in the past so very unlikely they were going to get good from that route. They would have taken on more Fredrick Wuss type players.

You can never hate on a owner with open pockets to improve his team, and Dolan has open pockets. He is like any owner with management, he delegates to his management to get things done. Management has failed him not Dolan.
If the problem was simply Layden, wouldn't the problem be over by now since none of Layden's players are on the team?
Vmart
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5/5/2007  12:00 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Vmart:

I don't hate Dolan he is basically paying for his first mistake which was Layden. Recovering from Layden is a monumental task because lets face it the Knicks were vastly depleted of talent. Building around an aging Spree and a gimpy H20 were bad idea's. The Knicks were never good at drafting in the past so very unlikely they were going to get good from that route. They would have taken on more Fredrick Wuss type players.

You can never hate on a owner with open pockets to improve his team, and Dolan has open pockets. He is like any owner with management, he delegates to his management to get things done. Management has failed him not Dolan.
If the problem was simply Layden, wouldn't the problem be over by now since none of Layden's players are on the team?

What talent was left by Layden has to be converted and if the players that are left don't bring good talent back in return then Isiah can only work with what was left, he has to be creativive in his methods to get atleast better talent then what was given him. So far Isiah hasn't dissapointed in getting better players from what was left to him.

nixluva
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5/5/2007  12:12 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Vmart:

I don't hate Dolan he is basically paying for his first mistake which was Layden. Recovering from Layden is a monumental task because lets face it the Knicks were vastly depleted of talent. Building around an aging Spree and a gimpy H20 were bad idea's. The Knicks were never good at drafting in the past so very unlikely they were going to get good from that route. They would have taken on more Fredrick Wuss type players.

You can never hate on a owner with open pockets to improve his team, and Dolan has open pockets. He is like any owner with management, he delegates to his management to get things done. Management has failed him not Dolan.
If the problem was simply Layden, wouldn't the problem be over by now since none of Layden's players are on the team?

Layden's mess was only one aspect of the problem. Dolan had a part to play in this too. He's the one that wanted the Playoffs and not a rebuild. That decision played a part in the continued poor decisions. Finally we have a young core and in 2 years a chance to get out from under this cloud. I can only hope that no more dumb moves are made between now and then. I feel relatively confident that the Knicks are aware of the timing and the opportunity they'll have in 2 years. I think it's why they seem to be so much more conservative lately.

Dolan may have poor judgement, but he does spend on his team. If there's anything to be upset about it's been his lack of desire to win a TITLE. He's been perfectly happy to just get to the playoffs and that isn't good. I do believe that Isiah wants a title tho, so there's still hope that we'll make moves to give us a chance to make that happen.
djsunyc
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5/5/2007  12:34 PM
earl, it's simple: the team wins, then nothing else matters.

sprewell choked a coach. who cares? he helped us win.

sprewell punches a boat. knicks aren't winning. get him off the team.
Bonn1997
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5/5/2007  12:41 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

earl, it's simple: the team wins, then nothing else matters.

sprewell choked a coach. who cares? he helped us win.

sprewell punches a boat. knicks aren't winning. get him off the team.

Yeah, I Don't even know why I'm entertaining a hypothetical question that's unlikely to come true.

Here's some more:
If Layden's knicks had won a championship, would you have liked him?
If Jared Jeffries averages 30 PPG next year, will he still be incompetent on offense?
If Eddy averages a triple double, will he still be a one dimensional player?
nyk4ever
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5/5/2007  5:40 PM
I can see things are as usual here.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
4949
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5/5/2007  6:41 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

Winning won't stop Knick fans from hating Dolan, but it will draw away attention from him.
Step 1: Win.
Don't even bother looking ahead if we can't get that done first.

I can guarantee that we will not be above .500 for another three years, if it continues this way. I can guarantee that we won't be able to even think' of winning a championship for another ten years! How' am I able to guarantee this? Because if you want to see the future, then look at your past.

It's been painfully slow (to find out) just to see that it wasn't going to work in the next ten years......'ten years ago'!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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5/5/2007  6:45 PM
You can never hate on a owner with open pockets to improve his team, and Dolan has open pockets. He is like any owner with management, he delegates to his management to get things done. Management has failed him not Dolan.

Mark Cuban has open pockets also. Look what he did in shorter time! No championship yet and one game from going to the next level, but 67 wins was no joke. I hate Dolan for ruining your' life.
I'll never trust this' team again.
simrud
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5/5/2007  11:24 PM
I think everybody should just get over the "I hate" whoever because the team is bad. Just don't watch. I simply stopped watching them last year a quarter into the season. Call me when they are fun to watch again. Very simple. Its just sports. There is plenty other things to do, only reason I'm still posting here it for old times sakes.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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5/6/2007  8:16 AM
I watch occasionally but less often than I used to. I watched much less once Lee got injured because I knew the season was over.
franco12
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5/6/2007  8:27 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by MaTT4281:

Winning won't stop Knick fans from hating Dolan, but it will draw away attention from him.
Step 1: Win.
Don't even bother looking ahead if we can't get that done first.

I can guarantee that we will not be above .500 for another three years, if it continues this way. I can guarantee that we won't be able to even think' of winning a championship for another ten years! How' am I able to guarantee this? Because if you want to see the future, then look at your past.

It's been painfully slow (to find out) just to see that it wasn't going to work in the next ten years......'ten years ago'!

Agreed about the next ten years- no pick in 2010. No franchise talent on the squad.

Dolan has hate because he is an idiot.

Any one of us- except perhaps some of the kool aid drinkers- would make better owners than Dolan.
Bonn1997
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5/6/2007  8:29 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by MaTT4281:

Winning won't stop Knick fans from hating Dolan, but it will draw away attention from him.
Step 1: Win.
Don't even bother looking ahead if we can't get that done first.

I can guarantee that we will not be above .500 for another three years, if it continues this way. I can guarantee that we won't be able to even think' of winning a championship for another ten years! How' am I able to guarantee this? Because if you want to see the future, then look at your past.

It's been painfully slow (to find out) just to see that it wasn't going to work in the next ten years......'ten years ago'!

Agreed about the next ten years- no pick in 2010. No franchise talent on the squad.

Dolan has hate because he is an idiot.

Any one of us- except perhaps some of the kool aid drinkers- would make better owners than Dolan.
Why stop at the next ten? Nothing's gonna turnaround then with Dolan as the owner.
franco12
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5/6/2007  8:30 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by MaTT4281:

Winning won't stop Knick fans from hating Dolan, but it will draw away attention from him.
Step 1: Win.
Don't even bother looking ahead if we can't get that done first.

I can guarantee that we will not be above .500 for another three years, if it continues this way. I can guarantee that we won't be able to even think' of winning a championship for another ten years! How' am I able to guarantee this? Because if you want to see the future, then look at your past.

It's been painfully slow (to find out) just to see that it wasn't going to work in the next ten years......'ten years ago'!

Agreed about the next ten years- no pick in 2010. No franchise talent on the squad.

Dolan has hate because he is an idiot.

Any one of us- except perhaps some of the kool aid drinkers- would make better owners than Dolan.
Why stop at the next ten? Nothing's gonna turnaround then with Dolan as the owner.

His history with the rangers suggests he might be 'getting it' with the high priced, rent-a-talent strategy.
If The Knicks Morphed Into Winners, How Much Would You Still Hate Dolan?

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