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NYT- Academic Study finds Racial Bias in foul Calling
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Killa4luv
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5/2/2007  1:22 AM
May 2, 2007
Study of N.B.A. Sees Racial Bias in Calling Fouls
By ALAN SCHWARZ

An academic study of the National Basketball Association, whose playoffs continue tonight, suggests that a racial bias found in other parts of American society has existed on the basketball court as well.

A coming paper by a University of Pennsylvania professor and a Cornell University graduate student says that, during the 13 seasons from 1991 through 2004, white referees called fouls at a greater rate against black players than against white players.

Justin Wolfers, an assistant professor of business and public policy at the Wharton School, and Joseph Price, a Cornell graduate student in economics, found a corresponding bias in which black officials called fouls more frequently against white players, though that tendency was not as strong. They went on to claim that the different rates at which fouls are called “is large enough that the probability of a team winning is noticeably affected by the racial composition of the refereeing crew assigned to the game.”

N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern said in a telephone interview that the league saw a draft copy of the paper last year, and was moved to do its own study this March using its own database of foul calls, which specifies which official called which foul.

“We think our cut at the data is more powerful, more robust, and demonstrates that there is no bias,” Mr. Stern said.

Three independent experts asked by The Times to examine the Wolfers-Price paper and materials released by the N.B.A. said they considered the Wolfers-Price argument far more sound. The N.B.A. denied a request for its underlying data, even with names of officials and players removed, because it feared that the league’s confidentiality agreement with referees could be violated if the identities were determined through box scores.

The paper by Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price has yet to undergo formal peer review before publication in an economic journal, but several prominent academic economists said it would contribute to the growing literature regarding subconscious racism in the workplace and elsewhere, such as in searches by the police.

The three experts who examined the Wolfers-Price paper and the N.B.A.’s materials were Ian Ayres of Yale Law School, the author of “Pervasive Prejudice?” and an expert in testing for how subtle racial bias, also known as implicit association, appears in interactions ranging from the setting of bail amounts to the tipping of taxi drivers; David Berri of California State University-Bakersfield, the author of “The Wages of Wins,” which analyzes sports issues using statistics; and Larry Katz of Harvard University, the senior editor of the Quarterly Journal of Economics.

“I would be more surprised if it didn’t exist,” Mr. Ayres said of an implicit association bias in the N.B.A. “There’s a growing consensus that a large proportion of racialized decisions is not driven by any conscious race discrimination, but that it is often just driven by unconscious, or subconscious, attitudes. When you force people to make snap decisions, they often can’t keep themselves from subconsciously treating blacks different than whites, men different from women.”

Mr. Berri added: “It’s not about basketball — it’s about what happens in the world. This is just the nature of decision-making, and when you have an evaluation team that’s so different from those being evaluated. Given that your league is mostly African-American, maybe you should have more African-American referees — for the same reason that you don’t want mostly white police forces in primarily black neighborhoods.”

To investigate whether such bias has existed in sports, Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price examined data from publicly available box scores. They accounted for factors like the players’ positions, playing time and All-Star status; each group’s time on the court (black players played 83 percent of minutes, while 68 percent of officials were white); calls at home games and on the road; and other relevant data.

But they said they continued to find the same phenomenon: that players who were similar in all ways except skin color drew foul calls at a rate difference of up to 4 ½ percent depending on the racial composition of an N.B.A. game’s three-person referee crew.

Mark Cuban, the owner of the Dallas Mavericks and a vocal critic of his league’s officiating, said in a telephone interview after reading the paper: “We’re all human. We all have our own prejudice. That’s the point of doing statistical analysis. It bears it out in this application, as in a thousand others.”

Asked if he had ever suspected any racial bias among officials before reading the study, Mr. Cuban said, “No comment.”

Two veteran players who are African-American, Mike James of the Minnesota Timberwolves and Alan Henderson of the Philadelphia 76ers, each said that they did not think black or white officials had treated them differently.

“If that’s going on, then it’s something that needs to be dealt with,” James said. “But I’ve never seen it.”

Two African-American coaches, Doc Rivers of the Boston Celtics and Maurice Cheeks of the Philadelphia 76ers, declined to comment on the paper’s claims. Rod Thorn, the president of the New Jersey Nets and formerly the N.B.A.’s executive vice president for basketball operations, said: “I don’t believe it. I think officials get the vast majority of calls right. They don’t get them all right. The vast majority of our players are black.”

Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price spend 41 pages accounting for such population disparities and more than a dozen other complicating factors.

For the 1991-92 through 2003-4 seasons, the authors analyzed every player’s box-score performance — minutes played, rebounds, shots made and missed, fouls and the like — in the context of the racial composition of the three-person crew refereeing that game. (The N.B.A. did not release its record of calls by specific officials to either Mr. Wolfers, Mr. Price or The Times, claiming it is kept for referee training purposes only.)

Mr. Wolfers said that he and Mr. Price classified each N.B.A. player and referee as either black or not black by assessing photographs and speaking with an anonymous former referee, and then using that information to predict how an official would view the player. About a dozen players could reasonably be placed in either category, but Mr. Wolfers said the classification of those players did not materially change the study’s findings.

During the 13-season period studied, black players played 83 percent of the minutes on the floor. With 68 percent of officials being white, three-person crews were either entirely white (30 percent of the time), had two white officials (47 percent), had two black officials (20 percent) or were entirely black (3 percent).

Mr. Stern said that the race of referees had never been considered when assembling crews for games.

With their database of almost 600,000 foul calls, Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price used a common statistical technique called multivariable regression analysis, which can identify correlations between different variables. The economists accounted for a wide range of factors: that centers, who tend to draw more fouls, were disproportionately white; that veteran players and All-Stars tended to draw foul calls at different rates than rookies and non-stars; whether the players were at home or on the road, as officials can be influenced by crowd noise; particular coaches on the sidelines; the players’ assertiveness on the court, as defined by their established rates of assists, steals, turnovers and other statistics; and more subtle factors like how some substitute players enter games specifically to commit fouls.

Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price examined whether otherwise similar black and white players had fouls-per-minute rates that varied with the racial makeup of the refereeing crew.

“Across all of these specifications,” they write, “we find that black players receive around 0.12-0.20 more fouls per 48 minutes played (an increase of 2 ½-4 ½ percent) when the number of white referees officiating a game increases from zero to three.”

Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price also report a statistically significant correlation with decreases in points, rebounds and assists, and a rise in turnovers, when players performed before primarily opposite-race officials.

“Player-performance appears to deteriorate at every margin when officiated by a larger fraction of opposite-race referees,” they write. The paper later notes no change in free-throw percentage. “We emphasize this result because this is the one on-court behavior that we expect to be unaffected by referee behavior.”

Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price claim that these changes are enough to affect game outcomes. Their results suggested that for each additional black starter a team had, relative to its opponent, a team’s chance of winning would decline from a theoretical 50 percent to 49 percent and so on, a concept mirrored by the game evidence: the team with the greater share of playing time by black players during those 13 years won 48.6 percent of games — a difference of about two victories in an 82-game season.

“Basically, it suggests that if you spray-painted one of your starters white, you’d win a few more games,” Mr. Wolfers said.

The N.B.A.’s reciprocal study was conducted by the Segal Company, the actuarial consulting firm which designed the in-house data-collection system the league uses to identify patterns for referee-training purposes, to test for evidence of bias. The league’s study was less formal and detailed than an academic paper, included foul calls for only two and a half seasons (from November 2004 through January 2007), and did not consider differences among players by position, veteran status and the like. But it did have the clear advantage of specifying which of the three referees blew his whistle on each foul.

The N.B.A. study reported no significant differences in how often white and black referees collectively called fouls on white and black players. Mr. Stern said he was therefore convinced “that there’s no demonstration of any bias here — based upon more robust and more data that was available to us because we keep that data.”

Added Joel Litvin, the league’s president for basketball operations, “I think the analysis that we did can stand on its own, so I don’t think our view of some of the things in Wolfers’s paper and some questions we have actually matter as much as the analysis we did.”

Mr. Litvin explained the N.B.A.’s refusal to release its underlying data for independent examination by saying: “Even our teams don’t know the data we collect as to a particular referee’s call tendencies on certain types of calls. There are good reasons for this. It’s proprietary. It’s personnel data at the end of the day.”

The percentage of black officials in the N.B.A. has increased in the past several years, to 38 percent of 60 officials this season from 34 percent of 58 officials two years ago. Mr. Stern and Mr. Litvin said that the rise was coincidental because the league does not consider race in the hiring process.

Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price are scheduled to present their paper at the annual meetings of the Society of Labor Economists on Friday and the American Law and Economics Association on Sunday. They will then submit it to the National Bureau of Economic Research and for formal peer review before consideration by an economic journal.

Both men cautioned that the racial discrimination they claim to have found should be interpreted in the context of bias found in other parts of American society.

“There’s bias on the basketball court,” Mr. Wolfers said, “but less than when you’re trying to hail a cab at midnight.”

Pat Borzi contributed reporting from Minneapolis and John Eligon from East Rutherford, N.J.
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anklebraker
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5/2/2007  7:23 AM
These people are bored.
It's funny how this whole world is based on one dummy controlling another,and the leader dummy was chosen by a whole bunch of dummies.
highfivesucka
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5/2/2007  8:07 AM
Mr. Wolfers and Mr. Price are scheduled to present their paper at the annual meetings of the Society of Labor Economists on Friday and the American Law and Economics Association on Sunday. They will then submit it to the National Bureau of Economic Research and for formal peer review before consideration by an economic journal.

its going to get rejected, so this trash will never be published anyway.
^precocious neophyte.
Andrew
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5/2/2007  8:48 AM
Posted by highfivesucka:

its going to get rejected, so this trash will never be published anyway.

Do you have some insight into why its going to be rejected?

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franco12
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5/2/2007  9:17 AM
hey - were are all our stats guys to put this into plainer english for me?

Now, if they had sample Celtic games during the 80's with Bird, McHale & Ainge, they'd probably have a wopper of lopsided results- those guys always got the calls.

Personally, I think the refs do a good job most of the time, though at times they do seem to be biased for a specific team or player- e.g., Jodan or Wade.
Solace
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5/2/2007  10:00 AM
I notice how the study doesn't make any mention of whether minority referees refereeded different than anyone else. But the NBA's did. Very flawed study. First off, if you do a study like this, you're LOOKING to report what you want, so I'm not shocked that this study amazingly "proved" exactly what it wanted to.

I think if you want to find inconsistency with the refs, why not check how many fouls certain stars get, vs. the rest of the league.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Masterplan
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5/2/2007  10:32 AM
i think the results of peer review - i.e. if it actually gets published - will tell a lot about it. UPenn and Cornell are, um, big names, but individual people there may have an axe to grind or let a personal feeling cloud process and results. then again, the NBA has a clear vested interest so i'm not sold on their self-reported results either.

i think a main takeaway point though is, as the article says, "It’s not about basketball — it’s about what happens in the world. This is just the nature of decision-making, and when you have an evaluation team that’s so different from those being evaluated." in basketball terms, the difference is one foul every 5-8 games - not a big deal. but in terms of implicit or explicit racism cropping up, the study could be another piece of literature on that topic.

P.S. Mark Cuban with the "No comment"? what is he running out of money to pay fines or something?
Andrew
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5/2/2007  10:55 AM
P.S. Mark Cuban with the "No comment"? what is he running out of money to pay fines or something?

Cuban recently stated in his blog that he doesn't comment on basketball much any more because he feels he can't honestly give his opinion (without getting fined).
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simrud
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5/2/2007  11:04 AM
I don't know, this really sounds like one of those we are going to prove cells phones cause cancer activist studies where they just set out to prove their point with statistics, like the people who somehow prove that the government blew up the twin towers. This has a "loose change" feel to it.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
franco12
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5/2/2007  11:08 AM
Posted by Solace:

I notice how the study doesn't make any mention of whether minority referees refereeded different than anyone else. But the NBA's did. Very flawed study. First off, if you do a study like this, you're LOOKING to report what you want, so I'm not shocked that this study amazingly "proved" exactly what it wanted to.

I think if you want to find inconsistency with the refs, why not check how many fouls certain stars get, vs. the rest of the league.

No- actually I believe they did study whether minority (African American) refs exercised bias against white players:
Justin Wolfers, an assistant professor of business and public policy at the Wharton School, and Joseph Price, a Cornell graduate student in economics, found a corresponding bias in which black officials called fouls more frequently against white players, though that tendency was not as strong. They went on to claim that the different rates at which fouls are called “is large enough that the probability of a team winning is noticeably affected by the racial composition of the refereeing crew assigned to the game.”
BlueSeats
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5/2/2007  11:16 AM
It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?
Masterplan
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5/2/2007  11:23 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

ha, agreed.
And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

like i said before, i think the study was less to say, "blacks have it rough in the nba" and more to contribute to existing lit on how biases can show themselves in snap judgments made in certain fields. or at least i hope the point was.
Killa4luv
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5/2/2007  1:53 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by BlueSeats:

It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

ha, agreed.
And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

like i said before, i think the study was less to say, "blacks have it rough in the nba" and more to contribute to existing lit on how biases can show themselves in snap judgments made in certain fields. or at least i hope the point was.

And ironically how biases against the study itself are formed by people who aren't comfortable with the findings.

Funny that you have to even clarify the purpose of the study for people.

In my opinion, this would not surprise me if it were true, I dont think white people realize how much color plays a role in the perception of things, no matter how insignificant. I think the intent of the study is the same as what you think, but people are so uncomfortable dealing with race/racism/prejudice that it gets under their skin. This isn't life altering in any way and I doubt any of these refs are what one would consider racist, but that adds to the whole point of doing the study if the findings are in fact accurate.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05-02-2007 2:00 PM]
arkrud
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5/2/2007  2:09 PM
I think this is more an attempt to find an environment where whites are a minority and test it against results in the society where minority is black - like study about police pre-justice against blacks.
Any kind of pre-justice based on color, national origin, gender, sexual orientation is a sign of low cultural level of the society.
We are not talking about discrimination but about the ways people accept the reality of life in today’s America.
Yep we all are not perfect but recognizing this the only way to get read of racism and move on to better society.



[Edited by - arkrud on 05-02-2007 2:09 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Killa4luv
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5/2/2007  2:11 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

unless players begi to wear these things on their skin, it will be nearly impossible to study.
Killa4luv
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5/2/2007  2:12 PM
Posted by arkrud:

Any kind of pre-justice based on color, national origin, gender, sexual orientation is a sign of low cultural level of the society.
We are not talking about discrimination but about the ways people accept the reality of life in today’s America.
Yep we all are not perfect but recognizing this the only way to get read of racism and move on to better society.

couldn't have said better myself.
franco12
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5/2/2007  2:19 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by BlueSeats:

It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

ha, agreed.
And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

like i said before, i think the study was less to say, "blacks have it rough in the nba" and more to contribute to existing lit on how biases can show themselves in snap judgments made in certain fields. or at least i hope the point was.

And ironically how biases against the study itself are formed by people who aren't comfortable with the findings.

Funny that you have to even clarify the purpose of the study for people.

In my opinion, this would not surprise me if it were true, I dont think white people realize how much color plays a role in the perception of things, no matter how insignificant. I think the intent of the study is the same as what you think, but people are so uncomfortable dealing with race/racism/prejudice that it gets under their skin. This isn't life altering in any way and I doubt any of these refs are what one would consider racist, but that adds to the whole point of doing the study if the findings are in fact accurate.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05-02-2007 2:00 PM]

Agreed- its impossible to run from our culture and everything that has ever happened- its history, and its impossible to escape.

Didn't Van Gundy complain about Yao not getting calls? I bet part of that was bias against him for being Chinese, and all the unease there is with the Chinese taking over the world, just like the Japanese tried to do in the 80s.

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5/2/2007  2:38 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by BlueSeats:

It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

ha, agreed.
And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

like i said before, i think the study was less to say, "blacks have it rough in the nba" and more to contribute to existing lit on how biases can show themselves in snap judgments made in certain fields. or at least i hope the point was.

And ironically how biases against the study itself are formed by people who aren't comfortable with the findings.

Funny that you have to even clarify the purpose of the study for people.

In my opinion, this would not surprise me if it were true, I dont think white people realize how much color plays a role in the perception of things, no matter how insignificant. I think the intent of the study is the same as what you think, but people are so uncomfortable dealing with race/racism/prejudice that it gets under their skin. This isn't life altering in any way and I doubt any of these refs are what one would consider racist, but that adds to the whole point of doing the study if the findings are in fact accurate.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05-02-2007 2:00 PM]


I don't think the intention of the study needed to be explained to me simply because I acknowledged the possibility of bias and indicated how many other biases may also exist that have not been quantified. See I think you have a strong motivation in posting the article and might be trying too hard to justify it.

Where I think we differ in on orientation to the topic. In this one, even if the bias was squarely identified and counted, the significance of it is fairly low "up to 4.5%". It MAXES, at 4.5%, and that includes 13 years of data. With greater sensitivity on racial issues and more minority refs I wouldn't be surprised if the number is quite a bit lower in present times.

Also, depending on how well the data were culled, and how well designed the study was, percentages below 3 or 4% in such studies are often considered "statistically insignificant". For instance you often see poll data showing the findings are accurate to +/- (lets say) 4%. This means any findings of 4% or below can be thrown out because they might simply be the result of error in the approach. Someone better at statistical analysis can go into this better than I.

But we're not talking about a large bias here. It's not like 20% of the calls should be race adjusted, whatever the amount is probably borders on being statistically irrelevant (IOW, inside that noise area of the study) and as I pointed out, some calls (other than fouls) might even favor blacks, or black all-stars.

I forget if it was you or misterearl who posted it, but after Imus was fired someone posted an article that showed that something like 55% of whites thought the punishment was fair, while 60% of blacks thought it was. I think that's reasonably close, but I felt as if (perhaps mistakenly so) as if the data were shown to establish a great divide.

I guess I just think we're past "baby steps" on racial issues. I know there are still a lot of racists out there, my ears are not virgin, just as there are misogynists, homophobes, anti-semites, and muslim haters. But what does it say when these topics are posted on message boards for discussion, and the act of discussion itself is used as further evidence of that certain something that led one to post the article in the first place?

It's pretty tough for a white person to talk about black issues. For instance, if I don't like hip-hop or black comedians it's because I'm a square outsider who'll never "get it". Fine, but if I do like it it's because I take pleasure in the negative imagery that's pushed on me by the self-serving white establishment. It's a no win proposition.

No one doubts there are subtle biases at play. No one doubts it includes whites, blacks, asians, latinos, men, women, straights, gays, jews, muslims, christians, liberals, conservatives, young, old, etc. But if we're gonna keep posting these articles like pointed fingers, can we at least discuss them?

I guess the short of it for me is that I perceive some of these race oriented articles as trying to show how far apart we are (culturally, not you and me) but largely they show how close we've truly become. Don't mis-perceive that as me wanting anything less than full equality. But in as much as you're not comfortable with people diminishing the results of findings like these, so shouldn't they be exaggerated. Until this study has been critiqued by those in a position to do so, none of us know how accurate or relevant the numbers are. I'd like to think that if a peer reviewed study showed a really large bias we'd all be outraged, but that's not what we're seeing here. The article itself cites black coaches, players and GMs cited in the report who don't feel biased against. Don't blame me for that. ;-)

[Edited by - blueseats on 05-02-2007 3:00 PM]
Killa4luv
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5/2/2007  2:58 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by BlueSeats:

It's a pity the paper isn't peer reviewed.

ha, agreed.
And this paper focused on fouls. I wonder if the results would hold up for things like palming. I'm not so sure white players are allowed to palm to the degree of guys like Jordan and Francis. Why? Because white player's games are usually less athletically oriented (who are the great white cross-over dribblers of our day?) so when they palm it stands out more.

The paper also noted that all-stars get preferential treatment, something everybody knows already. But aren't most all-stars black?

Do I doubt there may be a degree of racial bias involved here? No, but what's there seems relatively small: "up to 4.5%". The point is there may be many biases involved, this study just happened to look at one of them.

Anyway, if the report passes peer review and the degree of bias is deemed significant, it seems easy enough to have the distribution of color of the referees match that of the players. Is it "fair" if 85% of the refs are black? Eh, who knows and who cares anymore, just do it.

But then what do we do about gender and ethnicity? Does that rule out female refs, and do we need more international refs? What about religion, class, education and income? What about refs who didn't go to college judging players who did?

like i said before, i think the study was less to say, "blacks have it rough in the nba" and more to contribute to existing lit on how biases can show themselves in snap judgments made in certain fields. or at least i hope the point was.

And ironically how biases against the study itself are formed by people who aren't comfortable with the findings.

Funny that you have to even clarify the purpose of the study for people.

In my opinion, this would not surprise me if it were true, I dont think white people realize how much color plays a role in the perception of things, no matter how insignificant. I think the intent of the study is the same as what you think, but people are so uncomfortable dealing with race/racism/prejudice that it gets under their skin. This isn't life altering in any way and I doubt any of these refs are what one would consider racist, but that adds to the whole point of doing the study if the findings are in fact accurate.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05-02-2007 2:00 PM]


I don't think the intention of the study needed to be explained to me simply because I acknowledged the possibility of bias and indicated how many other biases may also exist that have not been quantified. See I think you have a strong motivation in posting the article and might be trying too hard to justify it.

Where I think we differ in on orientation to the topic. In this one, even if the bias was squarely identified and counted, the significance of it is fairly low "up to 4.5%". It MAXES, at 4.5%, and that includes 13 years of data. With greater sensitivity on racial issues and more minority refs I wouldn't be surprised if the number is quite a bit lower in present times.

Also, depending on how well the data were culled, and how well designed the study was, percentages below 3 or 4% in such studies are often considered "statistically insignificant". For instance you often see poll data showing the findings are accurate to +/- (lets say) 4%. This means any findings of 4% or below can be thrown out because they might simply be the result of error in the approach. Someone better at statistical analysis can go into this better than I.

But we're not talking about a large bias here. It's not like 20% of the calls should be race adjusted, whatever the amount is probably borders on being statistically irrelevant (IOW, inside that noise area of the study) and as I pointed out, some calls (other than fouls) might even favor blacks, or black all-stars.

I forget if it was you or misterearl who posted it, but after Imus was fired someone posted an article that showed that something like 55% of whites thought the punishment was fair, while 60% of blacks thought it was. I think that's reasonably close, but I felt as if (perhaps mistakenly so) as if the data were shown to establish a great divide.

I guess I just think we're past "baby steps" on racial issues. I know there are still a lot of racists out there, my ears are not virgin, just as there are misogynists, homophobes, anti-semites, and muslim haters. But what does it say when these topics are posted on message boards for discussion, and the act of discussion itself is used as further evidence of that certain something that led one to post the article in the first place?

It's pretty tough for a white person to talk about black issues. For instance, if I don't like hip-hop or black comedians it's because I'm a square outsider who'll never "get it". Fine, but if I do like it it's because I take pleasure in the negative imagery that's pushed on me by the self-serving white establishment. It's a no win proposition.

No one doubts there are subtle biases at play. No one doubts it includes whites, blacks, asians, latinos, men, women, straights, gays, jews, muslims, christians, liberals, conservatives, young, old, etc. But if we're gonna keep posting these articles like pointed fingers, can we at least discuss them?


[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05-02-2007 3:28 PM]
BlueSeats
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5/2/2007  3:05 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

take it easy, my comments werent directed at you. brb.

No prob, though you did quote my conversation.

But it's hard. In the Imus conversation all I was saying was that I enjoy black comedy and some early hip-hop but I'd like to see the more prominent blacks in entertainment try to clean up the vulgarities, and I was basically accused of trying to ghettoize all blacks. It's tough.

NYT- Academic Study finds Racial Bias in foul Calling

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