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where have all the winners gone?
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djsunyc
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Member: #536
4/20/2007  7:52 PM
marbury: 33, 23, 33, 39, 44, 36, 26, 31
crawford: 33, 23, 33, 23, 30, 21
francis: 33, 23, 26, 45, 43, 28, 45, 34
quentin: 33, 23, 60, 27, 39, 31
jeffries: 33, 42, 45, 25, 37
malik: 33, 23, 33, 60, 58, 58, 53
jerome: 33, 23, 52, 37, 40, 45
curry: 33, 23, 47, 23, 30, 21

those are the win totals for all our players that have been in the league for 5 years or longer. nobody on this team has been succesful throughout their career except malik rose. and not coincidentally, he's the one NOT making excuses.

i don't think we have to look any further than that to realize why this team doesn't win. why the larry brown season happened. and why the team collapsed after injuries (the past three years). what i don't get is why does isiah, who was a winner as a player, keep feeding to the "losing" attitude? why is he failing to see what this team needs? or maybe he does and he's just a poor gm that can't get a player like that?

this team needs guys that have won, but more importantly, can BALL. malik can't back up his resume with talent.

this team needs a winner (and not just in the game of life). unreal.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-20-2007 8:39 PM]
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djsunyc
Posts: 44929
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Member: #536
4/20/2007  8:01 PM
here's the nutty thing:

here are the records of the team after the players left:

marbury (nj): 52
marbury (pho): 62
crawford (chi): 47
francis (hou): 51
francis (orl): 36
jeffries (was): 41
malik (sas): 59
jerome (sea): 30
curry (chi): 41

most of the teams got better (in some cases MUCH better) after these players left them. francis in orlando was a push. same with jeffries in washington (although they were decimated by injuries). jerome had the biggest differential as seattle collapsed since he left. the bulls took a dip (-6) after the curry trade but bounced back to 49 this year.

the biggest descrepencies tho, is from our starting backcourt. those guys play the most minutes and take the most shots. it's really not that big a stretch to see why we struggle so much.

now, there are many factors that can effect each season but the trend is somewhat disturbing.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-20-2007 8:04 PM]
BlueSeats
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Member: #1024

4/20/2007  10:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

marbury: 33, 23, 33, 39, 44, 36, 26, 31
crawford: 33, 23, 33, 23, 30, 21
francis: 33, 23, 26, 45, 43, 28, 45, 34
quentin: 33, 23, 28, 27, 39, 31
jeffries: 33, 42, 45, 25, 37
malik: 33, 23, 33, 60, 58, 58, 53
jerome: 33, 23, 52, 37, 40, 45
curry: 33, 23, 47, 23, 30, 21

those are the win totals for all our players that have been in the league for 5 years or longer. nobody on this team has been succesful throughout their career except malik rose. and not coincidentally, he's the one NOT making excuses.

i don't think we have to look any further than that to realize why this team doesn't win. why the larry brown season happened. and why the team collapsed after injuries (the past three years). what i don't get is why does isiah, who was a winner as a player, keep feeding to the "losing" attitude? why is he failing to see what this team needs? or maybe he does and he's just a poor gm that can't get a player like that?

this team needs guys that have won, but more importantly, can BALL. malik can't back up his resume with talent.

this team needs a winner (and not just in the game of life). unreal.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-20-2007 7:54 PM]


I think Isiah has a messiah complex. He seems to think he can take paupers and turn them into kings.

Having Marbury move next door, taking on numerous fugazys like TT, Vin Baker, Jerome James, Francis, Curry, praying to sign Antoine Walker... and thinking he'll be able to turn them out... it takes an ego the size of Kansas to think he can spin these guys into silk.

That and he's a gambler. If a gambler is given unlimited funds, he's gonna keep rolling the dice. Don't matter if the odds are against him.

TemujinKnick
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4/21/2007  12:45 AM
You are absolutely right. But who exactly should we target? Where are these winners the Knicks should be trading for?
4949
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4/21/2007  1:17 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

marbury: 33, 23, 33, 39, 44, 36, 26, 31
crawford: 33, 23, 33, 23, 30, 21
francis: 33, 23, 26, 45, 43, 28, 45, 34
quentin: 33, 23, 60, 27, 39, 31
jeffries: 33, 42, 45, 25, 37
malik: 33, 23, 33, 60, 58, 58, 53
jerome: 33, 23, 52, 37, 40, 45
curry: 33, 23, 47, 23, 30, 21

those are the win totals for all our players that have been in the league for 5 years or longer. nobody on this team has been succesful throughout their career except malik rose. and not coincidentally, he's the one NOT making excuses.

i don't think we have to look any further than that to realize why this team doesn't win. why the larry brown season happened. and why the team collapsed after injuries (the past three years). what i don't get is why does isiah, who was a winner as a player, keep feeding to the "losing" attitude? why is he failing to see what this team needs? or maybe he does and he's just a poor gm that can't get a player like that?

this team needs guys that have won, but more importantly, can BALL. malik can't back up his resume with talent.

this team needs a winner (and not just in the game of life). unreal.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-20-2007 8:39 PM]

Most everyone thought it was going to work for last year and beyond. Who'd of ever thought that all of these lopsided contracts, and for the most part, proven players on other teams would all make a horrible chemistry? Just about everything is wrong with this particular team. It's just one of those things, that 'someone' ends up with every once in a while. That includes Thomas and Dolan at the helm.
I'll never trust this' team again.
simrud
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4/21/2007  11:52 PM

I think if you are going to go after other team's young players, you are not going to get winning players, because why would they let them go?

That is the problem with how we run things being so much over the cap. We can only trade for players or hope to draft them ourselves.

Until we either hold on to our own picks, or get under the cap, we will continue to get other team's rejects.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Killa4luv
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4/22/2007  1:24 AM
again with this winners and losers thing. Didn't I debunk this myth 2 years ago?

And once again, the larry brown season is called that because of, er, um, LARRY BROWN!!!!
simrud
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4/22/2007  1:26 AM
You did not debunk anything. Maybe in your mind. Ah whatever, why am I even bothering, just forget it.

[Edited by - simrud on 04-22-2007 01:26 AM]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
4949
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4/22/2007  2:13 AM
That is the problem with how we run things being so much over the cap.

Just so you guys know, I don't thing everything has to be so gloomy. It's not so much the young, unproven crew we have that I am dissapointed in. It's not so much the dissapointment of the veterans and successful players, when they played on other teams, that I have a problem with. These things are normal, in most cases and sometimes take time to develop, to find chemistry. The problem I always have with these teams, certain Knick players is the contracts. The #1 thing that has always killed us. Over priced (wayyyyyy over priced) and too long term. I could live with something not working out, if we can change it easier, but the fact that we can't get rid of the problem is the thing that bugs me the most. It's disturbing to be stuck like this. You'd think stupid would have learned his lesson by now, but it been like this for about 10 years now.

Our only chance at this point is if' the young guys can get much, much better and take over this team as a team and make that clear in the win column. The two dopes with 'things are getting better' have got to stop fooling themselves and trying to fool us. The experiment has failed for too long now.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/22/2007  2:16 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

again with this winners and losers thing. Didn't I debunk this myth 2 years ago?

And once again, the larry brown season is called that because of, er, um, LARRY BROWN!!!!

Obviously your standards are about as low as Dolan and Thomas's. When will you see the light and face the fact that we really suck?

To start to even think about getting better (I mean really' start) you first have to face facts and being real with one's self. You gotta admit that Thomas alone has made far more mistakes than he has made good ones and even those are still in question.

[Edited by - 4949 on 04-22-2007 02:21 AM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
where have all the winners gone?

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