From a Hoopsworld.com article:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_21697.shtml

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But as a coach and GM, Zeke has become far too accommodating...

The Knicks, once a flagship franchise, have become the laughing stock of the NBA. These are the New York Knicks we are talking about! There was a time when the Knicks would win 50 games and people would complain they didn't make it to the Championship round. Patrick Ewing would carry the Knicks to Game 7 of the Finals, but then get booed because he "couldn't win the big game." Now fans are expected to cheer because the Knicks try to win regular season games? Have Knicks fans really become that soft?

This is New York City, where A-Rod gets vilified for a post-season slump, regardless of whether or not he wins the regular-season MVP award. The Yankees have made the playoffs every single season since 1996 under manager Joe Torre, and have won four World Series rings during that time. But the Yanks have not won one since 2000, thus people were calling for Torre's head last October. And George Steinbrenner almost delivered it to them, before GM Brian Cashman calmed him down. Ask Derek Jeter or any other Yankee during spring training and they will tell you, "Our season is a failure if we don't win the World Series."

Obviously, the Knicks are a long ways from a championship, and expecting to win an NBA title next season would be misguided. However, using a 23-win nightmare season as the barometer for success and making excuses for embarrassing performances is far more damaging. This team has minimal margin for error, so allowing them to be content by simply putting fourth a decent effort has produced pitiful results. It is a corporate culture that has been tolerated far too long. Defense, in particular, is a direct by-product of hustle and energy. Players need to be held accountable. The best coaches in the league (Popovich, Van Gundy, Riley etc.) all espouse defense first. Look at the difference in Dallas since Avery Johnson replaced Don Nelson.

Even though the team is 14 games below .500, Knicks fan are expected to be satisfied because the team is "trying hard." These guys are getting paid millions upon millions of dollars to plays hoops for a living. Do they really deserve to get a pat on the back for competing? Do fans, coaches, owners, etc. not have the right to expect supreme effort from each player every night they step on the court?

A fish rots from the head down, or so they say.

Check out the comments by Knicks owner James Dolan during a radio appearance on Tuesday afternoon on WFAN's Mike and the Mad Dog show here in New York. Dolan spoke to the team after falling to the Nets in the final home game of the season (New York lost each home game they played in April), and described the conversation: “Basically, I told them I was unhappy we didn’t make the playoffs as I knew they were, but I also thanked them for the effort they put in,” Dolan said. “They had plenty of reasons to throw in the towel."

Exactly what reason did the New York Knicks have to throw in the towel? Where they the only team to deal with injury issues? Houston lost Yao and T-Mac for stretches. Miami lost Dwyane Wade. Did they lie down? So now we are expected to congratulate the Knicks for not quitting?

Love him or hate him, George Steinbrenner expects excellence. In fact, he demands excellence. How long would Isiah have lasted, as either GM or coach, if he was employed by the Yankees? (Keep in mind that the Knicks have the highest payroll in the history of the sport.) And check out the impact Mark Cuban has had on the culture in Dallas. This year marks the seventh consecutive season the Dallas Mavericks have won at least 50 games. On the other hand, the Knicks have not won a single playoff game since April of 2001. New York has not finished above .500 since 2001-2002.

But hey, at least the Knicks played hard most nights...

That's a great article.

the loser's mentality that is corrupting this franchise starts from the very top... as long as Dolan is acceptive of failure & rewards those who don't deliver on their mandates when they were hired, he's going to continue to have a losing franchise.

Posted by 4949:

Love him or hate him, George Steinbrenner expects excellence. In fact, he demands excellence. How long would Isiah have lasted, as either GM or coach, if he was employed by the Yankees? (Keep in mind that the Knicks have the highest payroll in the history of the sport.) And check out the impact Mark Cuban has had on the culture in Dallas. This year marks the seventh consecutive season the Dallas Mavericks have won at least 50 games. On the other hand, the Knicks have not won a single playoff game since April of 2001. New York has not finished above .500 since 2001-2002.

Always had great respect for Georges no monkey business tactics, although sometimes they've been tactics. Know what his success was, after the disasterous 80's? He got the team taken away from him, and when he came back he did something he never did before. He let his people build the team and it won them 4 rings!

you do realize that the Yankees won back to back championships in '77 & '78 & were realistic contenders for more rings in '76 & '80 w/George in full control of his franchise, don't you? he brought in big FA's like Catfish Hunter & Reggie Jackson, who played key roles in building those championship teams.



[Edited by - TMS on 04-19-2007 10:39 PM]

Posted by 4949:

Posted by TMS:

the loser's mentality that is corrupting this franchise starts from the very top... as long as Dolan is acceptive of failure & rewards those who don't deliver on their mandates when they were hired, he's going to continue to have a losing franchise.

If I may make a comparison here, this is sort of like the chicago scrubs (cubs). From what I understand, that team makes a ton' of money, win or lose, even though they end just about every season under .500 and haven't won a world series in practically 100 years. No one knows exactly why this happens but there is this theory that as long as the cubs are making the money they do, as long as the fans keep supporting them, by selling out the majority of games, then there is this theory that management there feels that it does not have to spend the money to win. In other words, if it ain't broken, don't fix it! I really think this is the course that the Knicks are on. If this is so, then we have more problems than we think.

exactly... Dolan doesn't care about championships, he only cares about filling the seats & lining his pockets w/more cash flow... he spends a lot on his team, but he's also making a ton of money in the process... if he truly cared for championships like George Steinbrenner, he'd have mandated his GM to get rid of players w/demonstrated loser's mentality a long time ago.

Hey we're the greatest 33-49 team ever!

But Dolan is so enraptured by Isiah, so wrapped around Zeke’s finger, he won’t even consider the possibility of even talking to West unless Isiah initiates the conversation.

Yeah, it's almost like they're.........................................they're.................................lovers.

Man oh man, this whole thing just sucks!

Posted by Seanc3:

That article nails it. And I agree with the idea that Dolan is completely brainwashed by Isiah.

There is a big difference between loyalty and idiocy. 33 wins and "trying hard" should not be enough for an extension anywhere, especially in New York.

Well said.

The other frustrating thing about Isiah is that you know he wouldn’t accept this BS as a player – and that was a main ingredient in their championship runs! So why change your entire philosophy as a coach??
He should know better! But he is so focused on lowering expectations - that he would never call a player out.

It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. By allowing the team to be content with below-average results – you are dooming them.

Guys like Eddy Curry need to be constantly motivated – not told that losing is acceptable as long as you “try hard”
The first part of that same Hoopsworld article touches on this:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_21697.shtml

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“If you can accept losing, you can't win.” - Vince Lombardi

Back on March 10th, the Knicks owned sole-possession of the 8th and final playoff spot. They were a mere five games under .500, which represents "significant progress" in New York these days. Just ask Knicks owner James Dolan, who jumped the gun and gave Isiah Thomas a contract extension right then and there.

At the time, Thomas talked encouragingly about the playoffs and felt that it could come right down to the wire, possibly even the last game of the year. There were 19 games left in the season at that point. Well, the last game of the season took place last night and the Knicks won on a tip-in by Eddy Curry with only six-tenths of a second remaining. However, the outcome was meaningless. In fact, the only joy Knicks fans could glean from the win over the Bobcats was having reduced the number of ping-pong balls the Chicago Bulls will have in the lottery hopper.

The Knicks had been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs last week, and realistically eliminated back in March. In the 19 games played following the 'Isiah Thomas extension" announcement, the Knicks lost 15 of them. Some were close, some were blowouts. But according to Isiah Thomas, it seemed that as long as the Knicks "competed" and "tried hard," losses were acceptable.

Of these many defeats, the most infamous and embarrassing one was 'Hamburger-gate'; the 98-69 defeat in Chicago which garnered national headlines because the Bulls attempted to score 100 points so their fans could get a free Big Mac. This game came during a stretch in which the Knicks would lose nine of ten contests. Still, after that Chicago game, Isiah was satisfied with his team. Seriously.

“Our guys were just trying to compete. It was a tough game for us. It was our 4th game in five nights," Isiah told a group of reporters after the game. "But the guys – I told them – they have played hard for me all year. Whatever they had, I thought they gave it to me tonight. So we just move onto the next game.”

Isiah continued, "It just wasn’t our night. We didn’t have enough firepower and they had more. I thought we tried to compete and I thought our guys tried to play hard."

The only surprise here was that it took Isiah so long to mention the injury problems the team has faced this season. (We'll get into why that is not a valid excuse another day...)

What is frustrating is that you know Isiah would never have accepted these losses as a player. You think he would have said the same thing to his Bad Boy Piston teammates after a 30-point loss? Isiah Thomas (the player) was one of the most intense, hard-nosed, and driven players in NBA history. And he was reportedly just as demanding on his teammates as himself. You don't become an immortal NBA player at six-feet tall unless you are uncompromising.

Bippity – you made a good point.

In the long run – the Knicks making it to the Finals in the lockout shortened ’99, may have been the detrimental to the Knicks in the long run.

It was because of the team’s incredible success that Dolan and others felt justified in never completely embracing a rebuilding project – in the belief that if we snuck in as an 8 seed – we could make the Finals. (Never mind that it was a lockout season and to depend on that confluence of factors again is death to an organization.)

More importantly, as long as the Knicks have a high payroll and are marginally competitive in the short run – tickets will get sold – as the Knicks are so proud that they sold out 17 of their last 21 games. Long term future of the team be dammed….

My post had nothing to do with the salary cap or is one league easier to build a team than the other. It has to do with one team not accepting losing and the other team making excuses for it.