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gunman contacted nbc news
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djsunyc
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4/18/2007  6:20 PM
Gunman in massacre contacted NBC News
‘This didn’t have to happen,’ says message mailed between shootings
By Alex Johnson


Cho Seung-Hui in a photograph he sent this week to NBC News.

Sometime after he killed two people in a Virginia university dormitory but before he slaughtered 30 more in a classroom building Monday morning, Cho Seung-Hui mailed NBC News a large package, including photographs and videos, lamenting that “this didn’t have to happen,” the network said Wednesday.

Cho, 23, a senior English major at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, killed 32 people in two attacks before taking his own life.

NBC News President Steve Capus said the network received the package in Wednesday morning’s mail delivery and immediately turned the materials over to FBI agents in New York.

The package included a long, “rambling, manifesto-like statement embedded with a series of photographs,” Capus said. The material is “hard-to-follow ... disturbing, very disturbing — very angry, profanity-laced,” he said.

It did not include any images of the shootings Monday, but it did contain “vague references,” including “things like ‘this didn’t have to happen,’ ” Capus said in an interview late Wednesday afternoon.

“NBC Nightly News” planned to show some of the material Wednesday night.

Capus said gloved NBC security personnel handled the package very carefully as soon as it arrived. The network immediately called the FBI and turned it over.

The package bore a U.S. Postal Service stamp recording that it had been received at a Virginia post office at 9:01 a.m. ET Monday, about an hour and 45 minutes after Cho shot two people in the West Ambler Johnston residence hall on the Virginia Tech campus and shortly before Cho entered Norris Hall, where he killed 30 more people.

“We probably would have received the mail earlier had it not been that he had the wrong address and ZIP code,” Capus said.

Shooter speaks on camera
Among the materials are 23 QuickTime video files showing Cho talking directly to the camera, Capus said. He does not name anyone specifically, but he talks at length about religion and his hatred of the wealthy.

The production of the videos indicated that Cho had worked on the package for some time, because he not only “took the time to record the videos, but he also broke them down into snippets” that were embedded paragraph by paragraph into the main document, Capus said.

The package also includes several photographs showing Cho in different locations, sometimes posed against a white, cinderblock wall. In some of the photographs, Cho is holding handguns “consistent with what we’ve heard about the guns in this incident,” Capus said.

Other photographs show Cho holding a knife, and some show hollow-point bullets lined up on a table, Capus said.

“This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation,” said Col. Steven Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police, the lead agency investigating the shootings. “We’re in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evaluate its worth.”

Detention order issued
As early as 2005, police and school administrators were wrestling with what to do with Cho, who was accused of stalking two female students and was sent to a mental health facility after police obtained a temporary detention order.

The two women complained to campus police that Cho was contacting them with “annoying” telephone calls and e-mail messages in November and December 2005, campus Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Cho was referred to the university’s disciplinary system, but Flinchum said the woman declined to press charges, and the case apparently never reached a hearing.

However, after the second incident, the department received a call from an acquaintance of Cho’s, who was concerned that he might be suicidal, Flinchum said. Police obtained a temporary detention order from a local magistrate, and in December of that year, Cho was voluntarily but briefly admitted to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, NBC News’ Jim Popkin reported.

To issue a detention order under Virginia law, a magistrate must find both that the subject is “mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment” and that the subject is “an imminent danger to himself or others, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for himself.”

According to a doctor’s report accompanying the order, which was obtained by NBC News, Cho was “depressed,” but “his insight and judgment are normal.” The doctor, a clinical psychologist, noted that Cho “denies suicidal ideations.”

Under the law, the magistrate could have issued a stronger detention order mandating inpatient treatment, but there was no indication Wednesday that such an order was ever entered. A spokesman for Carilion St. Albans told NBC News that he could not discuss Cho’s case because of patient confidentiality and privacy laws, but he said the hospital was cooperating with the investigation.

Otherwise, Flinchum said, there were no further police incidents involving Cho until the deadly shootings Monday, first in a young woman’s dormitory room and then at a classroom building across campus. Neither of the alleged stalking victims was among the victims Monday.

In addition to the 33 people confirmed dead, including the gunman, nine people remained in hospitals in stable condition, hospital authorities said.

Health records sought
Campus police applied Wednesday for search warrants for all of Cho’s medical records from Schiffert Health Center on campus and New River Community Services in Blacksburg.

”It is reasonable to believe that the medical records may provide evidence of motive, intent and designs,” investigators wrote in the documents, according to The Associated Press.

Police searched Cho’s dorm room Tuesday and recovered, among other items, a chain and a combination lock, according to documents filed Wednesday. The front doors of Norris Hall, the classroom building, had been chained shut from the inside during the shooting rampage.

Other items that were seized included a folding knife; two computers, a hard disk and other computer disks; documents, books, notebooks and other writings; a digital camera; compact disks; and two Dremel tools, which are rotating tools used for cutting, sanding and other applications.

In an affidavit seeking the search warrant, police found a “bomb threat” note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech had received two other bomb threats; investigators said they had not connected those to Cho.

Family sought better life in U.S.
Cho arrived in the United States as an 8-year-old boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va., a suburb of Washington, where his parents worked at a dry cleaners. He graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly in 2003.

Cho’s family moved to the United States in search of a better life, said the family’s landlady in South Korea. The family was poor and lived in a cheap basement apartment on the outskirts of Seoul, the woman told South Korean television Wednesday.

Cho had an older sister, Sun-Kyung, who graduated from Princeton University with an economics degree in 2004, Princeton officials confirmed.

The Princeton student newspaper reported Wednesday that she is pursuing a career as a State Department contractor working on the reconstruction of Iraq. It said that Sun-Kyung Cho was “palpably upset” when it contacted her and that she refused its requests for an interview.

Student concerned classmates, teachers
Her brother, however, was described as a sullen loner by several students and professors. They had long been alarmed by his class writings — pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

Nikki Giovanni, the famous poet who is a professor at Virginia Tech, said Wednesday that while she did not fear for her life or the lives of her other students, she had Cho removed from her class because he was a disruptive force.

“He was mean,” Giovanni told NBC News’ Peter Alexander. “He was trying to bully me. He was trying to bully the class, for what purpose I have no idea.

“I wanted him out of my classroom,” she said.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of creative writing at Virginia Tech, said she tutored Cho after that. She called Cho “a gifted student in some ways. But he was very lonely and depressed, in my opinion. We didn’t build up a rapport because he wasn’t the kind of student who would permit that.”

“I think it’s crazy” that there are no stronger procedures for dealing with seriously troubled students, she said in an interview with NBC News. “I think there needs to be a change. We must intervene, and that is all there is to it.”

Referred for counseling
Cho’s writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the university’s counseling service, said Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university’s English Department.

In a screenplay Cho wrote for a class last fall, characters throw hammers and attack with chainsaws, according to fellow students in the class. In another, Cho concocted a tale of students who fantasized about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

“His writing, the plays, were really morbid and grotesque,” Stephanie Derry, a classmate of Cho’s, told the campus newspaper, The Collegiate Times. “I remember one of them very well. It was about a son who hated his stepfather. In the play, the boy threw a chainsaw around and hammers at him. But the play ended with the boy violently suffocating the father with a Rice Krispie treat.”

Derry said classmates even joked that they “were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did. But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling.”

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off.

Cho left notes that were found after the bloodbath castigating fellow students, investigators said. One of them said, “You forced me do this,” NBC News’ Chris Clackum reported Wednesday, but it could not immediately be determined when the notes were written or whether they referred specifically to Monday’s events.
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TheGame
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4/18/2007  6:27 PM
This dude was beyond crazy.
Trust the Process
djsunyc
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4/18/2007  6:35 PM
survivor tells us what happens:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c45_1176890967

i don't know if it's legit or not...


[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-18-2007 6:37 PM]
TMS
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4/18/2007  11:11 PM
this idiot is turning into a celebrity almost... it's sickening.

& all these references to his nationality make me laugh, as if that had anything to do w/anything... does anyone even care what those 2 Columbine wack jobs' nationalities were?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
K22
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4/18/2007  11:15 PM
Posted by TMS:

this idiot is turning into a celebrity almost... it's sickening.

It's what he wanted ultimately.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
4949
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4/18/2007  11:23 PM
Posted by TheGame:

This dude was beyond crazy.

This dude was going through discrimination and all of the pressures that come with it, and it probably mutated. We're finally getting a first hand view of what was going on, finally, in one of these guys heads and the answer isn't so simple. This kid was screaming out for help and no one saw it. People like this are walking around all over in society, trying to keep it together and every once in a great while one of them loses it. It's not just mass gun shootings, but also rapist, sereal killers and other kinds of people who develop some form of abuse and end up in the wrong kinds of outlets to let it go. Crazy is not really a problem. The mind is many, many, many different kinds of problems. It starts from the age two, and makes a difference whether you were nurtured or not for just one of many stages of development. This kid, as with all the others, something did not happen that was suppose to happen. The word crazy cannot be the one and only answer.
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4949
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4/18/2007  11:25 PM
Posted by TMS:

this idiot is turning into a celebrity almost... it's sickening.

& all these references to his nationality make me laugh, as if that had anything to do w/anything... does anyone even care what those 2 Columbine wack jobs' nationalities were?

Wrong, your getting a first hand look into the mind of a misguided individual. It took years for him to become what he did. Pay attention to what he's saying. It's real!
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TMS
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4/18/2007  11:32 PM
let me tell you, coming from the EXACT same family & ethnic background as this kid did, that nothing he experienced (to my knowledge) was that much different than what many, many other kids like him go through growing up in this society... i don't know his entire life story, but the stories of parental "abuse" & the distancing from them generated by the cultural & generation gaps is common to almost every other kid i grew up with who grew up in an immigrant family, along w/myself... his parents were hard working, church going people just like my parents... to think that discrimination or his parents treatment of him on any level would lead to something as heinous as what he did is ridiculous... he was not sexually molested or anything that would make a normal person grow up with deep seated personality issues... this guy was mentally disturbed & never learned how to cope in life with the everyday discrimination that just about any minority or immigrant group faces on a daily basis, & that's the extent of what we need to analyze here... that's all on him in my book... to think what anguish his parents & sister must be going through at this point is mindboggling, much less what the families of his victims have had to endure the past couple days.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-18-2007 11:35 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BlueSeats
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4/18/2007  11:52 PM
Not that it's a direct parallel in any way, but my nephew is bi-polar. He's had two manic episodes so far that have gotten him picked up by police and brought to the hospital. When he's not in one of these episodes he's a really well adjusted guy: likable, generous, self aware, self expressed, funny, good grades, good jobs... a winner. In fact he's currently on the fast track in banking.

But every so often comes a shift in brain chemistry and he gets wonky. He gets grandiose, paranoid, thinks he can conquer the world and that's why the government wants to shut him down, etc. The first time was really bad. He thought he had the answer to save mankind: to colonize Mars, after he won the war against the machines. And he and his buddy were gonna hide in the woods and train themselves to fight. After they saved the world against the machines they were gonna head to NASA for some stuff to set up camp on Mars.

My poor sweet nephew was loonie tunes.

Sure, after each episode we look at the stresses that triggered him, and ditto after the depressions. But the reality is we all have things going on that could theoretically trigger us, but when the brain chemistry is right they don't. When the chemistry is wrong it doesn't take much.

This gunman needed medical attention and apparently what he got was insufficient. His background and lifestyle had little to do with it, IMO. First he had the metal instability, then the other things interacted with that problem.
4949
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4/19/2007  12:35 AM
Posted by TMS:

let me tell you, coming from the EXACT same family & ethnic background as this kid did, that nothing he experienced (to my knowledge) was that much different than what many, many other kids like him go through growing up in this society... i don't know his entire life story, but the stories of parental "abuse" & the distancing from them generated by the cultural & generation gaps is common to almost every other kid i grew up with who grew up in an immigrant family, along w/myself... his parents were hard working, church going people just like my parents... to think that discrimination or his parents treatment of him on any level would lead to something as heinous as what he did is ridiculous... he was not sexually molested or anything that would make a normal person grow up with deep seated personality issues... this guy was mentally disturbed & never learned how to cope in life with the everyday discrimination that just about any minority or immigrant group faces on a daily basis, & that's the extent of what we need to analyze here... that's all on him in my book... to think what anguish his parents & sister must be going through at this point is mindboggling, much less what the families of his victims have had to endure the past couple days.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-18-2007 11:35 PM]

It could have been anything. Let me ask you or anyone here 'what exactly is normal'? We all come from so many different kinds of backgrounds and religions, what is considered normal here? You and me have just a part of it. I'm reading what the kid was saying and the discrimination shot right out to me like a bullet. You have to remember that he is also a victon, just as much as the people he took the lives of. He was a human being also, one with many problems and no one can make the case that he experienced the same as any other kid, yes, of course he did, but we are all different in one way or another. It is how he was shaped from childhood, that has made him. People stamp the word crazy on a person, put them away, on whatever medication they see fit and that's it. They don't look into the life of the individual and so the message is missed. The difference with this kid is the fact that he mailed what he was going through to a news organization, to let the world know what was going throug his mind. He's crying out, wanting to be heard, but he is not the kind of person anymore that you would consider normal. This is a person that has changed, mentally, tremendously, he has mutated into something considered bizaar in most of the world and it crossed over. There is no reasoning with this crossover. Once it crosses over, you don't know what your dealing with. There were signes, but most people are not trained to see those signs. The end result, we now know, but we have the opportunity to view how it became. That is a rare thing and why his sending in the video is so unique. He's telling us what many, many people are going through and that it is tougher on a person of color in an already well established society, one that if born into, will have an affect on. It obviously had a major affect on him. No one can't tell me that it has nothing to do with race, but I must also say that, that is 'only a part of it'. I see racial discrimination everywhere. I seen it for years with the blacks, just recently it stuck it's ugly head out with what was going on with the Mexican immigration, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen it with the asian communities. I feel for the people who died and the people who's lives they've touched, but I gotta say that this kid, in what I saw, he is actually tell us what his problem was (although it's state is a mutation of the mind) and how he felt towards it and why he is angry. Does that sound like a sain person? You wouldn't think so, but there it is in black and white. Now your probably asking why does this sound so reasonable? It's because I'm' putting it in English, the best way I know how. I come from a childhood of conflicts and I survived it all. I was capable of surviving, of figuring it out, because I had to or else. I didn't need parents who went to church, or take up Jesus or anything like that. All I ever needed was someone to talk to, and I got lucky. That's just an example, one of many, many, many examples. There is no 'one' answer to this psychoanalysis! It's very, very complicated and requires observation. We are all conditioned in our society to take everything for granted. Most of us are lucky, so count your blessings everyone.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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4/19/2007  12:41 AM
My poor sweet nephew was loonie tunes.

Sorry to hear about your nephew. Got some of those problems in the family also. We all got to watch out for each other. One word of advice. As the quote is listed above, you might want to refer to your nephew with a little more dignity. Bi-polar needs as much positiveness as it can get. Suggestions of everthing is okay and creating some confidence is sort of criticle to him.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2007  9:53 AM
I think these incidents should teach us that it's not the blacks, the asians, the hispanics or the white people we need to be afraid of. It's the crazy people!
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EnySpree
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4/19/2007  11:49 AM
After seeing him speak you could see he was a disturbed person.

That's the difference between a guy like him and myself. I must admitt that I have feelings of just dropping a bomb on manhatten cuz of the way things are and how people live, etc. That's freakin crazy but I have that ability to let it go and not even act on it in anyway. I'm sure all "sane" people have that ability to control themselves and just let it go but just like some people are born a man wanting to be a woman or born with some type of retardation, people are born without that ability to let it go.

Some of you know what I do for a living. Do you know how many times I get cursed out for no reason? I have been called the n-bomb 4 times in about 4 years on the job. I get called an ******* at least once a day. I get thoroughly cursed out at least once a week. I Lose my temper at least once a week. I get things thrown at me at least once a month and spit at maybe every few months.

Now this is just me, but what if some dude just as crazy as that VT guy had my job? We all could use are imagination. Is there a way to figure out who is disturbed? No.

Here is something that I am deathly afraid of. Since people feel the need to curse or spit at me, what is stopping them from doing something worse. Every time I come in a station I think of it. Some people aways feel the need to tell me how much they hate the mta.

With all that there are people that have great things to say. Still a lot of times somebody with give the greatest comment to me, but right after someone just called me a faggot.

Just putting things in perspective in relation to my life. Nothing can really stop a mofo from doing what they want to do.
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4/19/2007  11:52 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Some of you know what I do for a living.

What do you do for a living?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
GhandiOrr
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4/19/2007  12:55 PM
I haven't read up on all the details of what Cho has done, but couldn't what he has done be evidence of how well assimilated into the wider American culture he was? Since opening fire on a crowd of people and killing yourself is a traditionally white male thing to do?
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Solace
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4/19/2007  2:25 PM
Posted by GhandiOrr:

I haven't read up on all the details of what Cho has done, but couldn't what he has done be evidence of how well assimilated into the wider American culture he was? Since opening fire on a crowd of people and killing yourself is a traditionally white male thing to do?

I'm not sure what your point is. Is it even accurate? Have any statistics to confirm that?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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4/19/2007  9:36 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by TMS:

let me tell you, coming from the EXACT same family & ethnic background as this kid did, that nothing he experienced (to my knowledge) was that much different than what many, many other kids like him go through growing up in this society... i don't know his entire life story, but the stories of parental "abuse" & the distancing from them generated by the cultural & generation gaps is common to almost every other kid i grew up with who grew up in an immigrant family, along w/myself... his parents were hard working, church going people just like my parents... to think that discrimination or his parents treatment of him on any level would lead to something as heinous as what he did is ridiculous... he was not sexually molested or anything that would make a normal person grow up with deep seated personality issues... this guy was mentally disturbed & never learned how to cope in life with the everyday discrimination that just about any minority or immigrant group faces on a daily basis, & that's the extent of what we need to analyze here... that's all on him in my book... to think what anguish his parents & sister must be going through at this point is mindboggling, much less what the families of his victims have had to endure the past couple days.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-18-2007 11:35 PM]

It could have been anything. Let me ask you or anyone here 'what exactly is normal'? We all come from so many different kinds of backgrounds and religions, what is considered normal here? You and me have just a part of it. I'm reading what the kid was saying and the discrimination shot right out to me like a bullet. You have to remember that he is also a victon, just as much as the people he took the lives of. He was a human being also, one with many problems and no one can make the case that he experienced the same as any other kid, yes, of course he did, but we are all different in one way or another. It is how he was shaped from childhood, that has made him. People stamp the word crazy on a person, put them away, on whatever medication they see fit and that's it. They don't look into the life of the individual and so the message is missed. The difference with this kid is the fact that he mailed what he was going through to a news organization, to let the world know what was going throug his mind. He's crying out, wanting to be heard, but he is not the kind of person anymore that you would consider normal. This is a person that has changed, mentally, tremendously, he has mutated into something considered bizaar in most of the world and it crossed over. There is no reasoning with this crossover. Once it crosses over, you don't know what your dealing with. There were signes, but most people are not trained to see those signs. The end result, we now know, but we have the opportunity to view how it became. That is a rare thing and why his sending in the video is so unique. He's telling us what many, many people are going through and that it is tougher on a person of color in an already well established society, one that if born into, will have an affect on. It obviously had a major affect on him. No one can't tell me that it has nothing to do with race, but I must also say that, that is 'only a part of it'. I see racial discrimination everywhere. I seen it for years with the blacks, just recently it stuck it's ugly head out with what was going on with the Mexican immigration, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen it with the asian communities. I feel for the people who died and the people who's lives they've touched, but I gotta say that this kid, in what I saw, he is actually tell us what his problem was (although it's state is a mutation of the mind) and how he felt towards it and why he is angry. Does that sound like a sain person? You wouldn't think so, but there it is in black and white. Now your probably asking why does this sound so reasonable? It's because I'm' putting it in English, the best way I know how. I come from a childhood of conflicts and I survived it all. I was capable of surviving, of figuring it out, because I had to or else. I didn't need parents who went to church, or take up Jesus or anything like that. All I ever needed was someone to talk to, and I got lucky. That's just an example, one of many, many, many examples. There is no 'one' answer to this psychoanalysis! It's very, very complicated and requires observation. We are all conditioned in our society to take everything for granted. Most of us are lucky, so count your blessings everyone.

dude, there's no possible excuse that you can lay the blame on for the actions of a mentally disturbed individual other than his own imbalance in the brain... i've grown up being called a "Chink" & had to hear the "Go back to China" comments all throughout my childhood growing up in a predominantly Italian & Jewish neighborhood, but that didn't make me into some homicidal mental lunatic... i made friends with the Italian & Jewish kids who didn't care about the fact that i was Asian... hell, i still get the comments to this day sometimes, at Yankee games hearing the "hey, it's Matsui's brother! hey Matsui!" or "hey Wang!" wisecracks behind me when i'm looking for my chair... do i allow that to phaze me & bring myself down to their level by acting out violently? i adjusted & blocked out the ignorance of others cuz "normal" people do that... they overcome their fears of living life as a subordinate sub-human as the ignorant ones who pick on them consider them to be... in the end, they look like the fools, & that's a simple concept that this murderer obviously failed or was mentally incapable of comprehending.

you wanna make a statement? you wanna cry out to the world? write a friggin book! don't go out & murder people & then mask it over with these pathetic excuses that you were picked on based on your race when you were little... that's a copout that insults every immigrant minority that's ever come to live here & has "somehow" managed to overcome the taunts of racist a-holes & make lives for themselves in this country.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-19-2007 9:43 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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4/19/2007  9:39 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

After seeing him speak you could see he was a disturbed person.

That's the difference between a guy like him and myself. I must admitt that I have feelings of just dropping a bomb on manhatten cuz of the way things are and how people live, etc. That's freakin crazy but I have that ability to let it go and not even act on it in anyway. I'm sure all "sane" people have that ability to control themselves and just let it go but just like some people are born a man wanting to be a woman or born with some type of retardation, people are born without that ability to let it go.

Some of you know what I do for a living. Do you know how many times I get cursed out for no reason? I have been called the n-bomb 4 times in about 4 years on the job. I get called an ******* at least once a day. I get thoroughly cursed out at least once a week. I Lose my temper at least once a week. I get things thrown at me at least once a month and spit at maybe every few months.

Now this is just me, but what if some dude just as crazy as that VT guy had my job? We all could use are imagination. Is there a way to figure out who is disturbed? No.

Here is something that I am deathly afraid of. Since people feel the need to curse or spit at me, what is stopping them from doing something worse. Every time I come in a station I think of it. Some people aways feel the need to tell me how much they hate the mta.

With all that there are people that have great things to say. Still a lot of times somebody with give the greatest comment to me, but right after someone just called me a faggot.

Just putting things in perspective in relation to my life. Nothing can really stop a mofo from doing what they want to do.

Eny, i totally feel you on all that bro... sick people like this guy just can't cope w/this stuff... it's a sad statement about themselves as individuals that shouldn't be used to excuse an act as heinous as murder.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GhandiOrr
Posts: 20178
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/22/2006
Member: #1229

4/20/2007  1:32 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by GhandiOrr:

I haven't read up on all the details of what Cho has done, but couldn't what he has done be evidence of how well assimilated into the wider American culture he was? Since opening fire on a crowd of people and killing yourself is a traditionally white male thing to do?

I'm not sure what your point is. Is it even accurate? Have any statistics to confirm that?

Ok, I did some research in order to prove my point . . . and it turns out I'm wrong. Believing that mass murderers are typically white and male is a common stereotype. If mass murder is defined as killing more than three people either separately or all together for any reason, then the killers come from all walks of life and all ethnic backgrounds.

What I was thinking about in terms of assimilation was Cho's "press-kit." Americans are into their guns, and fantasies of gun violence are everywhere. Cho's writing and the photo above show his actively being a participant in that "dialogue," although he was horribly alone and cut off from other people and his motivation for really killing people, as stated by other posters, could have been his being discriminated against as well as his upbringing and just who he was. It seems like wanting to be famous was part of it as well.

I can't believe the school notified people of the danger present through email! That's just simply no plan at all. If it's conceivable that someone on a campus has a gun and has shot two people with it, you lock down the campus. Email can't be the way to make that happen. My wife turned down a teaching job in the English department at V Tech 10 or so years ago. A very wise choice.

Being an artist who has worked with both abused, emotionaly disturbed kids and "healthy" kids, I know how hard it is when you try to create a trusting environment so kids can express themselves and then you get back some incredibly violent work or work that shows how suicidal someone is. You talk to them, try to decipher their intent, and steer them towards some understanding and get the school psychologist involoved, but you wonder, "What will that boy become? Will that girl survive?"
"You shall play basketball and you shall play it great."
Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
4/20/2007  8:08 AM
Posted by GhandiOrr:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by GhandiOrr:

I haven't read up on all the details of what Cho has done, but couldn't what he has done be evidence of how well assimilated into the wider American culture he was? Since opening fire on a crowd of people and killing yourself is a traditionally white male thing to do?

I'm not sure what your point is. Is it even accurate? Have any statistics to confirm that?

Ok, I did some research in order to prove my point . . . and it turns out I'm wrong. Believing that mass murderers are typically white and male is a common stereotype. If mass murder is defined as killing more than three people either separately or all together for any reason, then the killers come from all walks of life and all ethnic backgrounds.

What I was thinking about in terms of assimilation was Cho's "press-kit." Americans are into their guns, and fantasies of gun violence are everywhere. Cho's writing and the photo above show his actively being a participant in that "dialogue," although he was horribly alone and cut off from other people and his motivation for really killing people, as stated by other posters, could have been his being discriminated against as well as his upbringing and just who he was. It seems like wanting to be famous was part of it as well.

I can't believe the school notified people of the danger present through email! That's just simply no plan at all. If it's conceivable that someone on a campus has a gun and has shot two people with it, you lock down the campus. Email can't be the way to make that happen. My wife turned down a teaching job in the English department at V Tech 10 or so years ago. A very wise choice.

Being an artist who has worked with both abused, emotionaly disturbed kids and "healthy" kids, I know how hard it is when you try to create a trusting environment so kids can express themselves and then you get back some incredibly violent work or work that shows how suicidal someone is. You talk to them, try to decipher their intent, and steer them towards some understanding and get the school psychologist involoved, but you wonder, "What will that boy become? Will that girl survive?"

Good post. I appreciate you double checking and posting your correction. The email thing is insane. That'd be like having a robber break into my house and me trying to email the police instead of calling them. That part of it is unreal and inexcusable. Like I posted on another board, the only positive thing that may come from this is colleges will likely up their security and come up with a better plan for how to deal with anything like this while it's occurring.

Also, I was accepted to go to VTech for my bachelors (it was one of 10 schools I applied to -- accepted to all 10 btw), but I declined it. Had I accepted, I would've started 10 years ago. Small world, eh?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
gunman contacted nbc news

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