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Why was Lenny Wilkins Fired? (I mean, why did he
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BasketballJones
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4/18/2007  2:48 PM
I was trying to figure out whether Isiah is as good a coach as Don Chaney. I decided to compare his winning percentage to all of the post-jvg coaches:


Coach wins losses pct
----- ---- ------ ---
Don Chaney 72 112 .391
Lenny Wilkins 40 41 .493
Larry Brown 23 59 .280
Isiah Thomas 32 49 .395 (currently)
---------------------------------------------------
Isiah Thomas 32 50 .390 (if the Knicks lose tonight - worse than Don Chaney)
Isiah Thomas 32 49 .402 (if the Knicks win tonight - better than Don Chaney)



Based on wins / losses, Wilkins was by far the best post-JVG coach the Knicks had. Why was he forced to resign?

Oh, and during Chaney's one full year as coach:


Don Chaney 37 45 .451


So Isiah has no chance of bettering the single-season record of the man he humiliated on David Letterman and had "escorted" from the garden by security guards.



[Edited by - basketballjones on 04-18-2007 14:53]
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MS
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4/18/2007  3:00 PM
Isiah is a terrible coach, other than wearing the nicest suits in the league i don't know what he did that was all that special. as noted larry had an entire roster that never played together, tanked the season and the players gave up and they managed to win 9 less games than isiah.

I judge a coach on a few thigns the ability to use the right combinations of players, team defense, the ability to run the offense, player development and taking care of the ball

Nate, Frye, Crawford all regressed, Curry showed no improvement on the defensive end of the ball so as far as i am concerned one sided development is not all that impressive, he shot close to 400 more shots this season and his to's were up, blks didn't move and assists showed a marignal improvement, big deal he is a wide man that is great 6 feet from the basket....lee is garbage man how is energy driven count his improvement if you want

He used the wrong combination of players, started players based on salary and when they were drafted, starting james, jefferies, frye unacceptable

We were the worst team in the nba taking care of the basketball and our team defense was just scary

As other posters brought up our shooting percentage was pretty bad as a team, which is a direct result of the isiah offense, crawford, francis, nate all dicking around with the ball and wasting posessions and E-City, Mr. All star swallowing the ball and not knowing how to get it out to people for quality shots.

We got blown out 25% of our games and came out flat, we didn't really play hard half the season, if you call getting down 20 and fighting your way back because you were unispired playing hard there is a reason why you have accepted the unacceptable......
TrueBlue
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4/18/2007  3:01 PM
We must consult Stephon Marbury on this one.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
djsunyc
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4/18/2007  3:04 PM
b/c no other coach have the luxury of utilizing "excuses". only isiah gets that privilege.
Bippity10
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4/18/2007  3:55 PM
The heat was on, Isiah needed to point a finger at someone and Lenny was the obvious choice. Even after he undermined him and fired a couple of his assistants. He was still scapegoated.
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BasketballJones
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4/18/2007  4:10 PM
Lenny didn't even get one full year as coach. Even Evil Larry Brown got that.
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djsunyc
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4/18/2007  4:14 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

The heat was on, Isiah needed to point a finger at someone and Lenny was the obvious choice. Even after he undermined him and fired a couple of his assistants. He was still scapegoated.

he only had one assistant, his longtime friend dick helm. in 2004/05, he was fired after the home opener blowout by the celtics. so lenny had no assistants. the team was 16-13. then steph said he was the best. jamal stubbed his toe. and the team collapsed to a 2-13 month. in the midst of that month, lenny "stepped down" but continued to get paid.
BasketballJones
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4/18/2007  4:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

The heat was on, Isiah needed to point a finger at someone and Lenny was the obvious choice. Even after he undermined him and fired a couple of his assistants. He was still scapegoated.

he only had one assistant, his longtime friend dick helm. in 2004/05, he was fired after the home opener blowout by the celtics. so lenny had no assistants. the team was 16-13. then steph said he was the best. jamal stubbed his toe. and the team collapsed to a 2-13 month. in the midst of that month, lenny "stepped down" but continued to get paid.

That's the great thing about coaching or playing for the Knicks. You continue to get paid for doing nothing after you leave the organization.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 04-18-2007 16:18]
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newyorknewyork
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4/18/2007  4:34 PM
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY5MzY3MzImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Lenny can empathize with Larry

Friday, May 19, 2006

By STEVE ADAMEK
STAFF WRITER

Time passes, but Larry Brown's status remains the same. He's still the Knicks' coach, but still in a limbo the team has yet to alter by either endorsing him publicly or setting him free.

Lenny Wilkens can identify. In remarks Thursday on ESPN-1050 radio's Michael Kay Show and in the Seattle Times, Isiah Thomas' first head coach hire said he believes he knows the territory in which Brown now finds himself.

"[Thomas] had his ideas and I had mine," Wilkens said on the radio. "It seemed like we were going in separate directions."

Hired to replace Don Chaney on Jan. 14, 2004, then forced to resign Jan. 22, 2005, Wilkens was 40-41 with the Knicks. That included a 23-19 record in his first half-season after he got the job that pushed the Knicks into their lone playoff appearance of the past five seasons.

His departure, he said, was a "mutual thing," saying that in the end he and Thomas "just didn't seem to agree on a number of things." His going-away present: $10 million, all the money he was owed on what was left of his contract (1½ seasons, plus a team option for another).

That's the salient issue that could determine Brown's future: money. Will the Knicks hand him the more than $40 million he's owed for the four years left on the five-year, $50 million contract he got just 10 months ago? Or will he blink and take less to escape an uncomfortable situation?

Brown's agent, Joe Glass, insists no talks for a lower goodbye figure will happen, that if the Knicks don't want Brown, they'll have to fire him.

Team history, however, suggests the process could get ugly.

Chaney conducted a morning pregame shootaround, then got fired by Thomas after he arrived at the arena only hours later.

Herb Williams (who coached one game between Chaney and Wilkens before taking over for Wilkens in 2005) was left in his own limbo last summer. He ran draft workouts and fulfilled the other off-season duties of a head coach before Brown escaped Detroit and pushed Williams back to his old assistant's job.

One of four Knicks coaches since Thomas became team president 29 months ago, Wilkens said the first indication that things wouldn't work out was the Keith Van Horn for Tim Thomas trade at the 2004 All-Star break.

Then he said he realized the end was near when, two games into the 2004-05 season after the worst home-opening loss in franchise history, his longtime assistant and friend Dick Helm was fired.

Not privy to the day-to-day Brown-Thomas relationship, Wilkens declined to offer much about what might be wrong between the two, other than to say of Brown, "I don't know, from any perspective, if you can constantly criticize your players, I don't think that works.

"It didn't seem like [he and Thomas] were on the same track."

Which was something with which he became familiar, too.

"It was a mistake," he said. "I never should have gone there."
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Bippity10
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4/19/2007  9:39 AM
Nothing like hiring two coaches in a row that you don't agree with.
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fishmike
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4/19/2007  9:49 AM
Chaney coached Spree, Houston, Kurt, Othella, Spoon, Shandon, Ward... guys that played their butts off everynight. The year McDyess went down Chaney coached them to 37 wins. Essentially they were .500 once Sprewell came back after missing the first 8-9 games.

Meanwhile Isiah has all this "talent" and twice the payroll and he cant do better then Don Chaney
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Nalod
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4/19/2007  9:53 AM
Does Isiah agree with himself now he is his own boss?
Bippity10
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4/19/2007  10:03 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Does Isiah agree with himself now he is his own boss?

Judging by some of his moves.........No
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McK1
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4/19/2007  10:39 AM
even Isiah wouldn't start Steph and Crawford together. however he made Lenny put up with the antics 35 mpg of 2 of the most uncoachable* guards in the league.

*uncoachable has nothing to do with how well-mannered a player is. 20 foot off balance jumpers 6 seconds into the possession = uncoachable.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
islesfan
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4/19/2007  1:24 PM
Chaney was supposed to win now. He didn't and was fired.

Wilkens was supposed to win now. He didn't and he was forced to resign.

Larry was supposed to win now. He didn't and he was fired.

Isiah needs 3-4 more years before his team "gets it" and starts to win. Despite being 16 games under .500, Isiah not only keeps his job but gets a 4 year extension.
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newyorknewyork
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4/19/2007  4:47 PM
Chaney hardly got a shot. It seemed like Isiah planned on getting rid of Chaney as soon as he came in.

I liked Chaney though many fans didn't. I allways thought he got the most out of his limited teams.

The enigma Tim Thomas absolutly killed our season that yr.
even Isiah wouldn't start Steph and Crawford together. however he made Lenny put up with the antics 35 mpg of 2 of the most uncoachable* guards in the league.

And who would you have started over Crawford at the time?? Did we even have a backup SG? oh yea Penny.
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djsunyc
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4/19/2007  4:54 PM
i liked chaney. former coach of the year. and that 37 win team was my favorite knick team since 2001. but he never got the support from isiah, despite all the changes.

flip the script to toronto, mitchell was among the worst coaches in the league according to most press. colangelo came in midseason last year. he went and made a ton of changes this summer BUT KEPT mitchell b/c he felt mitchell deserved a chance to show what he can do. colangelo had nothing to lose b/c no better coach was available. and that worked out for the best.

no better coach was available when chaney got fired...so i don't understand why he wasn't allowed to just finish up the season.
McK1
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4/19/2007  5:01 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Chaney hardly got a shot. It seemed like Isiah planned on getting rid of Chaney as soon as he came in.

I liked Chaney though many fans didn't. I allways thought he got the most out of his limited teams.

The enigma Tim Thomas absolutly killed our season that yr.
even Isiah wouldn't start Steph and Crawford together. however he made Lenny put up with the antics 35 mpg of 2 of the most uncoachable* guards in the league.

And who would you have started over Crawford at the time?? Did we even have a backup SG? oh yea Penny.

point made for me.

Lenny was handcuffed to whatever ill advised attempt that ran thru Crawfords head.

I'll go so far as to say I doubt Lenny was onboard with the Crawford signing. Lenny follows the game, I'm quite sure he seen quite a few of Jamals 4-22 1-9 from 3 2fta 4 assts 3 turnover games prior to him becoming a Knick.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
newyorknewyork
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4/19/2007  5:13 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Chaney hardly got a shot. It seemed like Isiah planned on getting rid of Chaney as soon as he came in.

I liked Chaney though many fans didn't. I allways thought he got the most out of his limited teams.

The enigma Tim Thomas absolutly killed our season that yr.
even Isiah wouldn't start Steph and Crawford together. however he made Lenny put up with the antics 35 mpg of 2 of the most uncoachable* guards in the league.

And who would you have started over Crawford at the time?? Did we even have a backup SG? oh yea Penny.

point made for me.

Lenny was handcuffed to whatever ill advised attempt that ran thru Crawfords head.

I'll go so far as to say I doubt Lenny was onboard with the Crawford signing. Lenny follows the game, I'm quite sure he seen quite a few of Jamals 4-22 1-9 from 3 2fta 4 assts 3 turnover games prior to him becoming a Knick.

All you can say is you doubt Lenny was onboard but that 100% speculation. Did Wilkens comment on how he was unpleased by the Crawford trade? If you have that then okay, if not your speculation means nothing. You can't state an assumption then treat it like its a fact. If its specualtion then keep it in its place and perspective.

When we traded for Crawford #1 we needed insurance for Houston & #2 they were planning on Houston making it back from injury. The backcourt was supposed to be Marbury, Houston with Crawford as the combo guard off the bench. Giving the Knicks a tripple threat at G with different skills. Houston not recovering made Crawford the starter with little talent & production behind him. Plus we didn't even have a backup PG behind Marbury. Which Crawford was supposed to assume if Houston was healthy.
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McK1
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4/19/2007  7:13 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Chaney hardly got a shot. It seemed like Isiah planned on getting rid of Chaney as soon as he came in.

I liked Chaney though many fans didn't. I allways thought he got the most out of his limited teams.

The enigma Tim Thomas absolutly killed our season that yr.
even Isiah wouldn't start Steph and Crawford together. however he made Lenny put up with the antics 35 mpg of 2 of the most uncoachable* guards in the league.

And who would you have started over Crawford at the time?? Did we even have a backup SG? oh yea Penny.

point made for me.

Lenny was handcuffed to whatever ill advised attempt that ran thru Crawfords head.

I'll go so far as to say I doubt Lenny was onboard with the Crawford signing. Lenny follows the game, I'm quite sure he seen quite a few of Jamals 4-22 1-9 from 3 2fta 4 assts 3 turnover games prior to him becoming a Knick.

All you can say is you doubt Lenny was onboard but that 100% speculation. Did Wilkens comment on how he was unpleased by the Crawford trade? If you have that then okay, if not your speculation means nothing. You can't state an assumption then treat it like its a fact. If its specualtion then keep it in its place and perspective.

When we traded for Crawford #1 we needed insurance for Houston & #2 they were planning on Houston making it back from injury. The backcourt was supposed to be Marbury, Houston with Crawford as the combo guard off the bench. Giving the Knicks a tripple threat at G with different skills. Houston not recovering made Crawford the starter with little talent & production behind him. Plus we didn't even have a backup PG behind Marbury. Which Crawford was supposed to assume if Houston was healthy.

what does all this have to do with Isiah handing Lenny an uncoachable backcourt which first Brown and then Isiah himself decided would not work starting together?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Why was Lenny Wilkins Fired? (I mean, why did he

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