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Knicks W-L Record Injury Update
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TrueBlue
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4/4/2007  12:45 PM
Crawford out of the line-up injured on 2/28

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3407

During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record


Lee out of the line-up injured on 2/21

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3956

During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him, during their first 10gms the record was 5-5 without him, during the first 12gms the team's record was 6-6 without him. I'm including the 1 game he played against Milwaukee because he didn't get his normal minutes. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.


Q out of the line-up injured on 3/3

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3417

He played 2 gms after within a week 1 heavy minutes the other very limited. During the first 6gms the team's record was 3-3 with/without him. I'll throw out the 2gms he played, they were 3-1 without him. That's better than .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.




The bottom fell out when the team played Dallas during the second half of that game. That was also the game in which ISAYUGH gave his pre-game letdown speech. We need to get over the injury EXCUSE seriously.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-04-2007 6:58 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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nixluva
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4/4/2007  12:55 PM
This is really the wrong way to look at this. You're looking at the results and assuming that this team wouldn't have done better WITH the missing players. You can't do that. You have no way of knowing if one of them was going to go on a streak of inspired play. Any of those guys is capable of doing that. It may be that the entire team came together in such a way that we hadn't seen yet this season. By them not being there we'll never know.

When the season started I expected that this team would improve as it went along in the season and peak as we came to the end. I still believe that was going to happen. This team in my opinion would've played above .500 ball in the last 2 months of the season. I think we actually could've gotten to .500 on the season had we been reasonably healthy. We lost 5 home games in March alone and I don't believe that we would've done that if healthy.
Queeniepop
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4/4/2007  1:02 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Crawford out of the line-up injured on 2/28

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3407

During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record


Lee out of the line-up injured on 2/21

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3956
During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him, during their first 10gms the record was 5-5 without him, during the first 12gms the team's record was 6-6 without him. I'm including the 1 game he played against Milwaukee because he didn't get his normal minutes. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.


Q out of the line-up injured on 3/3

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3417

He played 2 gms after within a week 1 heavy minutes the other very limited. During the first 6gms the team's record was 3-3 with/without him. I'll throw out the 2gms he played, they were 3-1 without him. That's better than .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.




The bottom fell out when the team played Dallas during the second half of that game. That was also the game in which ISAYUGH gave his pre-game letdown speech. We need to get over the injury EXCUSE seriously.

The bottom line is that we are 5-10 without Jamal Crawford. We also played lesser teams such as Atlanta, GS, etc.

The bottom line is that we are 6-11 without David Lee. Only quality team we won without David is Miami, of which Jamal played in.

Quentin Richardson was injured almost all of the post brawl through the 1/10 game versus Philly. And then several intermittent times.
Queeniepop
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4/4/2007  1:03 PM
And what about losing the last 6 out of 7 games without them...NAH, not cripping at all.
Elite
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4/4/2007  1:04 PM
im sorry but i found this post utterly useless and pointless
EnySpree
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4/4/2007  1:27 PM
Fishing for ways to be negative and going to extreams to prove a point.

Knicks weren't elite at full strength. Everybody agrees with that so what is the point still going on about it?

Yes the knicks are mediocre. Yes the knicks are now a lottery team with the injuries.

I don't need to post stats to prove that. Its common sense, and absolute fact.
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fishmike
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4/4/2007  1:34 PM
the bottom line is Eddy is fat

the bottom line is we have been a .400 team all year

the bottom line is none of the guys on this $100mm roster have stepped up when guys are out

the bottom line is Isiah has gotten jack from JJSkinny, Frye, Jerome James, Malik Rose and Francis. Thats about $35mm in FAs, trades and our last lottery pick producing poop

When you trade for an injured player, and that player gets injured its not bad luck. Its poor planning. Q's shooting bailed this team out numberous times during the "we are learning to jell" excuse phase (we are now in the "injuries cost us" excuse phase for those keeping track). Unless you want to concede that Layden was a good GM and successfully added a 20/10 frontcourt player in McDyess, but was just unlucky he hurt his knee.

Please... this team has "underperformed" all year. Eddy is proving what a nonimpact he is with other more important players out. We are getting nothing from expensive add ons. We still have half effort games. If these guys were half as good as people here make them out to be we would be a .500 team. This is stupid
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djsunyc
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4/4/2007  1:36 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the bottom line is Eddy is fat

the bottom line is we have been a .400 team all year

the bottom line is none of the guys on this $100mm roster have stepped up when guys are out

the bottom line is Isiah has gotten jack from JJSkinny, Frye, Jerome James, Malik Rose and Francis. Thats about $35mm in FAs, trades and our last lottery pick producing poop

When you trade for an injured player, and that player gets injured its not bad luck. Its poor planning. Q's shooting bailed this team out numberous times during the "we are learning to jell" excuse phase (we are now in the "injuries cost us" excuse phase for those keeping track). Unless you want to concede that Layden was a good GM and successfully added a 20/10 frontcourt player in McDyess, but was just unlucky he hurt his knee.

Please... this team has "underperformed" all year. Eddy is proving what a nonimpact he is with other more important players out. We are getting nothing from expensive add ons. We still have half effort games. If these guys were half as good as people here make them out to be we would be a .500 team. This is stupid

considering layden and lb set us back for 6-7 years, we really can't start judging isiah's job here until 2009, at the earliest. c'mon man, you gotta be fair.
efw
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4/4/2007  1:37 PM
Except that most of the replacements are 1st and 2nd year players. I think they are stepping up in terms of what they're expected to contribute, it's just that they dont' know how to win in the NBA yet.
djsunyc
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4/4/2007  1:41 PM
Posted by efw:

it's just that they dont' know how to win in the NBA yet.

neither do steph, jamal or eddy. and that's a HUGE problem. those guys are 10/7/6 year vets.

looking at this roster, q was part of a 62 win team. they moved him, and didn't miss a beat.
jerome was part of a 52 win team. and he can't stay on the court for more than 2 minutes at a time. malik was part of 2 title teams but he is virtually a 3rd stringer.

other than that, we are a team full of losers. so how do our young guys learn how to win? who will help show them?
efw
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4/4/2007  2:07 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by efw:

it's just that they dont' know how to win in the NBA yet.

neither do steph, jamal or eddy. and that's a HUGE problem. those guys are 10/7/6 year vets.

looking at this roster, q was part of a 62 win team. they moved him, and didn't miss a beat.
jerome was part of a 52 win team. and he can't stay on the court for more than 2 minutes at a time. malik was part of 2 title teams but he is virtually a 3rd stringer.

other than that, we are a team full of losers. so how do our young guys learn how to win? who will help show them?

You won't find an argument from me about that. I was just saying that injuries are part of the reason we're not playing better.

However, I see Jamal as a winner in the sense that he's a team oriented player, and has a killer streak that belongs on a winning team.

As much as I root for Steph, I think this team would be well over .500 with a grade A ball distributor. Since Steph only has 2 years left, we should try and find a way to grab Conley in next year's draft. I don't see Steph as the cancer most of you do, but he's clearly not the answer.
nixluva
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4/4/2007  2:14 PM
It's more than finding a ball distributor, cuz steph passes the ball plenty, it doesn't matter tho if you give it to Frye and he doesn't shoot it, or to Curry and he can't pass out of the double team. Then you have Jared, Balkman and Collins who can't really shoot. Francis when he's in there is also reluctant to shoot the open jumper without 1st putting the ball on the floor, which defeats the whole flow of the offense, when the ball is successfully moved. Again I remind you that when we had H2O, KT, KVH and Doleac we had NO PROBLEMS moving the ball and Steph looked more than capable of making the passes. It's as i've been saying, more about what the other players do after they GET THE BALL.

When Steph has high assist games that's the rare occasion when we actually get good finishes to the passes he makes. Just imagine how this team would've been with a healthy H2O and a Rashard Lewis. Do you not think that they'd see the ball early and often? STEPH IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!
djsunyc
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4/4/2007  2:16 PM
Posted by nixluva:

It's more than finding a ball distributor, cuz steph passes the ball plenty, it doesn't matter tho if you give it to Frye and he doesn't shoot it, or to Curry and he can't pass out of the double team. Then you have Jared, Balkman and Collins who can't really shoot. Francis when he's in there is also reluctant to shoot the open jumper without 1st putting the ball on the floor, which defeats the whole flow of the offense, when the ball is successfully moved. Again I remind you that when we had H2O, KT, KVH and Doleac we had NO PROBLEMS moving the ball and Steph looked more than capable of making the passes. It's as i've been saying, more about what the other players do after they GET THE BALL.

When Steph has high assist games that's the rare occasion when we actually get good finishes to the passes he makes. Just imagine how this team would've been with a healthy H2O and a Rashard Lewis. Do you not think that they'd see the ball early and often? STEPH IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!

any player in this league can win. but for steph to be effective, he needs catch and shoot guys like h20 and shard (like you mentioned). BUT we are not building a team of catch and shoot guys. hence why steph really has no place here.
efw
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4/4/2007  3:05 PM
Plus, Steph is really a half-court PG, at least, that's when he's at his best. Our team is full of athletic, dunking, fast break players.
MS
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4/4/2007  3:06 PM
The real problem is this all the high price talent and trades isiah has made, name one deal where he came out on top.

Isiah doesn't understand the value of a dollar. Collins and Balkman could have fallen into the second round of the draft, yet they provide more of an impact than francis and jefferies.

Cato provide more of an impact than James, and so on....

Currys production helps every now and again but for the most part his defense prevents the knicks from being more aggressive defenders because the paint is open. Seriously ask yourself when was the last time eddy committed a hard foul?

You can fill all your secondary roles with guys that are fighting for their place in this league and win 35 games, its not that hard. For being this great talent evaluated and all this shift in attitude and production for the future.......

No pg, no sg, no sf, no shotblocker
nixluva
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4/4/2007  3:09 PM
Nah I think Steph can play both ways, but we are more of a halfcourt team in my opinion. Also I disagree with you a bit Dj in that I think we are trying to add catch and shoot players. I think that Isiah's next move. I believe Isiah is going to have a strong post game with Curry and Morris and capable shooting from the perimeter.
TrueBlue
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4/4/2007  3:17 PM
Posted by Queeniepop:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Crawford out of the line-up injured on 2/28

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3407

During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record


Lee out of the line-up injured on 2/21

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3956
During the first 8gms the team's record was 4-4 without him, during their first 10gms the record was 5-5 without him, during the first 12gms the team's record was 6-6 without him. I'm including the 1 game he played against Milwaukee because he didn't get his normal minutes. That's .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.


Q out of the line-up injured on 3/3

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?statsId=3417

He played 2 gms after within a week 1 heavy minutes the other very limited. During the first 6gms the team's record was 3-3 with/without him. I'll throw out the 2gms he played, they were 3-1 without him. That's better than .500 and is a good enough sample to go off of to show his injury didn't cripple the team. The team had been playing .500 over the prior 50gms and it's a better record than the overall team record.




The bottom fell out when the team played Dallas during the second half of that game. That was also the game in which ISAYUGH gave his pre-game letdown speech. We need to get over the injury EXCUSE seriously.

The bottom line is that we are 5-10 without Jamal Crawford. We also played lesser teams such as Atlanta, GS, etc.

The bottom line is that we are 6-11 without David Lee. Only quality team we won without David is Miami, of which Jamal played in.

Quentin Richardson was injured almost all of the post brawl through the 1/10 game versus Philly. And then several intermittent times.

So when the bottom fell out against Dallas which one of these teams are LESSER opponents

Dallas L
Portland L
@Clev L
Orlando L
Clev W
@Dallas L
@Hornets L

You could say Portland, Orlando, and Hornets. So if the Knicks at least take care of business @ home against the weak Blazers minus Zach and Orlando, they'd pretty much be an 8th seed. They should have avenged the game in New Orleans from blowing that game @ home to them. So what this really gets down to is Francis and Jeffries were horrible acquisitions. Frye and Nate are not dependable. EY Curry went in the toilet amidst these inuries with exception to maybe 2-3gms and Stephon is what he is, a great stat loser.






[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-04-2007 2:20 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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4/4/2007  3:27 PM
Again you're leaving out that we've been playing short handed for a long while. It's reasonable to expect that the only key players left would eventually hit a wall and then we'd have very little chance to win those games. We've had to replace 42 pts, 21 reb and 8.5 asts a night, plus the fact that the guys missing play 30+ mins a game, are our best crunchtime performers and are good FT shooters.

With all of that I just mentioned you think its of little consequence that we're playing without them? PLEASE!
TrueBlue
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4/4/2007  3:30 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Again you're leaving out that we've been playing short handed for a long while. It's reasonable to expect that the only key players left would eventually hit a wall and then we'd have very little chance to win those games. We've had to replace 42 pts, 21 reb and 8.5 asts a night, plus the fact that the guys missing play 30+ mins a game, are our best crunchtime performers and are good FT shooters.

With all of that I just mentioned you think its of little consequence that we're playing without them? PLEASE!


Dirk played without Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse and Devin Harris for very long stretches and their team got better as the yr went along. Your argument doesn't work Nixluva because it's been debunked.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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4/4/2007  3:32 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by nixluva:

Again you're leaving out that we've been playing short handed for a long while. It's reasonable to expect that the only key players left would eventually hit a wall and then we'd have very little chance to win those games. We've had to replace 42 pts, 21 reb and 8.5 asts a night, plus the fact that the guys missing play 30+ mins a game, are our best crunchtime performers and are good FT shooters.

With all of that I just mentioned you think its of little consequence that we're playing without them? PLEASE!


Dirk played without Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse and Devin Harris for very long stretches and their team got better as the yr went along. Your argument doesn't work Nixluva because it's been debunked.

Are you again comparing the Knicks to the MAVS? You just don't get it do you? You can't debunk my argument with that kind of logic.
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