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the injuries may have cost us a season
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djsunyc
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4/1/2007  3:31 PM
with a healthy jamal, lee, and sometimes quentin - we were pretty much a .500 team.

we would've seen this team finish off the season (to see how they would) and possibly compete in the playoffs (to see how they would fair).

but the injuries hit. and now, we won't know how they would've finished the year or performed in the playoffs.

and that could've given us some insight to the team and it's players.

now, we're not sure and we might have to stick with the same team again for another full season to find out.
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islesfan
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4/1/2007  3:32 PM
What's another season when you have a 10 year plan.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
efw
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4/1/2007  3:48 PM
dj, i don't think we have to necessarily stick with the same team to find out. I think it's pretty safe to assume that when everyone is healthy, this club is a .500 team, maybe a bit better. I think using one or two of our young players to bolster either our post defense or outside shooting would make us even better.

While injuries aren't a good excuse to use in terms of not playing hard per game, they do factor into whether or not this team can play well for an extended period of time. This team started to find somewhat of an identity - players knew their roles. Now, who gets the ball in crunch time? Who does most of the scoring? Who runs the club? Besides losing starting quality players, the team also has to redefine themselves - and there's just not enough time left.
Bonn1997
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4/1/2007  4:07 PM
I agree that the injuries, really the Lee injury, cost us the season. The problem is that this team isn't built to withstand the number of injuries a a typical NBA team experiences
Allanfan20
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4/1/2007  4:13 PM
Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nyk4ever
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4/1/2007  4:19 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

I agree Allan, the remaining Bockers are playing hard and they are giving it their all, it's a testament to Isiah as a coach. The other thing that I personally think is the reason that this team has been able to play pretty decent while Jamal/Q/Lee have been hurt is that the backups playing behind them aren't all that worse than the starters. I don't think this is a testament to how good the backups are, I think its a testament to how mediocre some of our starters are. There is alot of redundancy on this team and I think we have to trade some of that redundancy to get some of the very important things this team needs. Top wing player, defensive forward, quality backup PG.

Is it possible to get what we need with the pieces we have on this team? I'm not totally sure, but it's something we have to do if we are going to take the next step.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04-01-2007 4:20 PM]
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oohah
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4/1/2007  4:28 PM
the injuries may have cost us a season

I don't think so, I think the Knicks got what they needed out of this season. Too bad it was supposed to happen last season, but them's the breaks!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Allanfan20
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4/1/2007  4:38 PM
Posted by oohah:
the injuries may have cost us a season

I don't think so, I think the Knicks got what they needed out of this season. Too bad it was supposed to happen last season, but them's the breaks!

oohah

Oh please.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TheGame
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4/1/2007  4:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

with a healthy jamal, lee, and sometimes quentin - we were pretty much a .500 team.

we would've seen this team finish off the season (to see how they would) and possibly compete in the playoffs (to see how they would fair).

but the injuries hit. and now, we won't know how they would've finished the year or performed in the playoffs.

and that could've given us some insight to the team and it's players.

now, we're not sure and we might have to stick with the same team again for another full season to find out.

I understand your point dj, but I think the season has revealed what this team is about due to the adversity that it faced. Starting with being booed at home to begin the season, the Den-NY game fight, the rash of injuries, and the playoff push. I think we have some insight into who on this team can play at a high level and who likely will never be able to do so (i.e. Francis). Alot will depend on the development of our young players this summer. If Lee improves his defense, and Balkman and Collins improve their offense, we would have a solid core of two-way players to build on. Assuming IT is able to draft us a sharp-shooter (or he could probably trade Frye for Martell Webster as another poster suggested), we will add the needed 3pt shooting. We then cut Francis this summer. I agree that if we made the playoffs, we possibly could have learned some additional insights, but I think we learned enough to know that this team should make the 5-7 seed for next year's playoffs.
Trust the Process
Bonn1997
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4/1/2007  4:46 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

The injuries came at once but for the season as a whole our top 5 players have played in about as many games as any other teams'

Marbury has played in 99% of games
Crawford 79%
Q-Rich 67%
Lee 77%
Curry 99%

I think most teams would love to have their least healthy starter still available for most of the games actually. (And that's a player we knew was damaged when we acquired him.)
newyorknewyork
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4/1/2007  6:14 PM
Injuries may have ruined our playoff chances. But it got Balkman & Collins to step up, get more experience, and gain more confidence. Which can be huge for us next season. We also figured out what we needed to know about Frye.

This season to me wasn't really about making the playoffs though I would have loved to do so. But to see what we have in Curry, Frye, Lee, Balkman, Collins, Crawford, Q.Rich. Then move forward after we figure that out.

And by now I think we pretty much know whats the deal with our players. So our moves now should be made accordingly. Though I would prefer if we didn't make any trades unless it was for lesser contracts. Just draft and let contracts expire.

I would like to see Morris start to take all of Malik Rose mins as well just to see what he can bring to us this these next 9games. But I doubt that Isiah does that.
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nixluva
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4/1/2007  7:48 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

The injuries came at once but for the season as a whole our top 5 players have played in about as many games as any other teams'

Marbury has played in 99% of games
Crawford 79%
Q-Rich 67%
Lee 77%
Curry 99%

I think most teams would love to have their least healthy starter still available for most of the games actually. (And that's a player we knew was damaged when we acquired him.)

I don't get your point at all. If you have almost all of you injuries to key players at once, then that's WORSE than the same % spread out over a season at different times. If you a choice you'd take not having all the players injured at the same time, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Especially towards the end of the season, when you need them most.

The thing is that this season was a base year for this team. That was supposed to be last year, but we had to establish that this year. No matter how well they did, it was gonna be a big learning year and a look towards the future. I would've preferred that they made the playoffs for the experience. Still we do know that this team needs more perimeter shooting from the SF/SG position and perhaps we've learned that we can get solid Backup PG play from Mardy. We know that Lee, Balkman and Mardy can give this team a much better defensive look. Hopefully we'll add a SF that can not only score but defend well.

Of course we also established Curry inside as a reliable force. The downside is that Frye seemed to get lost in the sauce this year.
TrueBlue
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4/1/2007  8:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

with a healthy jamal, lee, and sometimes quentin - we were pretty much a .500 team.

we would've seen this team finish off the season (to see how they would) and possibly compete in the playoffs (to see how they would fair).

but the injuries hit. and now, we won't know how they would've finished the year or performed in the playoffs.

and that could've given us some insight to the team and it's players.

now, we're not sure and we might have to stick with the same team again for another full season to find out.

I disagree dj to a degree and normally I agree with everything you say. It's not safe to say the team was a solidified .500 team when healthy because they were playing teams that were'nt 100% healthy during that stretch. We don't even know who the official future starting 5 are. Lee was coming off the bench because of an agenda. It's debatable if Balkman should be a starter.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 04-01-2007 7:53 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Bonn1997
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4/1/2007  8:52 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

The injuries came at once but for the season as a whole our top 5 players have played in about as many games as any other teams'

Marbury has played in 99% of games
Crawford 79%
Q-Rich 67%
Lee 77%
Curry 99%

I think most teams would love to have their least healthy starter still available for most of the games actually. (And that's a player we knew was damaged when we acquired him.)

I don't get your point at all. If you have almost all of you injuries to key players at once, then that's WORSE than the same % spread out over a season at different times.
They got off lucky with almost no injuries for the first 50 games and then they had a stretch of injuries. Other teams had less luck early in the year with injuries and fewer injuries now. These two cancel each other out or if anything are more favorable to the Knicks. Very few teams have had players miss less games.
Solace
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4/1/2007  8:54 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

with a healthy jamal, lee, and sometimes quentin - we were pretty much a .500 team.

April Fools? Good one!

This team stinks. Since 23 wins was the bar, anything seems like progress, I guess. .500 has been right around the corner and "likely" for the past six years, yet somehow we never got it. Nor is this the best team we've had during that stretch, so sorry not a .500 team, probably close, though.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TrueBlue
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4/1/2007  8:56 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

The injuries came at once but for the season as a whole our top 5 players have played in about as many games as any other teams'

Marbury has played in 99% of games
Crawford 79%
Q-Rich 67%
Lee 77%
Curry 99%

I think most teams would love to have their least healthy starter still available for most of the games actually. (And that's a player we knew was damaged when we acquired him.)

I don't get your point at all. If you have almost all of you injuries to key players at once, then that's WORSE than the same % spread out over a season at different times.
They got off lucky with almost no injuries for the first 50 games and then they had a stretch of injuries. Other teams had less luck early in the year with injuries and fewer injuries now. These two cancel each other out or if anything are more favorable to the Knicks. Very few teams have had players miss less games.

Yep it's far worse dealing with injuries out the gate for long stretches vs later. It's harder to dig out of holes than trying not to fall into one. Especially when one team plays in a far weaker Division and Conference vs some of the other teams.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nixluva
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4/1/2007  10:18 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Thing is, this was an abnormal number of injuries, and you gotto give it to the guys for playing their butts off and not quitting. Most NBA teams wouldn't be able to withstand losing 4 of their 6 best players.

However, even beforehand, it was just a poorly constructed team, and JUST a .500 team. I think Isiah knows full well that things need to be changed.

The injuries came at once but for the season as a whole our top 5 players have played in about as many games as any other teams'

Marbury has played in 99% of games
Crawford 79%
Q-Rich 67%
Lee 77%
Curry 99%

I think most teams would love to have their least healthy starter still available for most of the games actually. (And that's a player we knew was damaged when we acquired him.)

I don't get your point at all. If you have almost all of you injuries to key players at once, then that's WORSE than the same % spread out over a season at different times.
They got off lucky with almost no injuries for the first 50 games and then they had a stretch of injuries. Other teams had less luck early in the year with injuries and fewer injuries now. These two cancel each other out or if anything are more favorable to the Knicks. Very few teams have had players miss less games.

Yep it's far worse dealing with injuries out the gate for long stretches vs later. It's harder to dig out of holes than trying not to fall into one. Especially when one team plays in a far weaker Division and Conference vs some of the other teams.

You've got to be kidding me! I don't think it's in anyway clear cut that losing a bunch of key players is EVER good. The argument is wether it makes a difference when the injuries are spread out or come all together at one time. In our case it's clear that you don't want to have all of the injuries at the same time. As for this seasons slow start, the knicks started off slow due to a lack of cohesion and a tough opening schedule. I don't think anyone predicted that the team would come out of the gates blazing, with a new coach and system and coming off of the disaster that was last year.

Now I do expect that the team should start of better next year, having at least gone thru a season together under this system and thus not having to start from scratch. I think we come out of this year having a good feeling about Steph, Curry, Lee, Balkman and Collins. If both Q and Jamal heal well, both of them showed themselves to be good contributors this year too. I liked how Q was playing before his back started acting up. We tend to forget all of these things because of how things have gone recently.

The team responded well after the brawl and suspensions. They've also fought hard with all of these key players injured. Those are good positives. Still some of us want to harp on the actual number of wins and losses as if that's what was most important this year. NOT for this developing team. I would've loved for them to reach .500, but more important to me is how the team grows and I like the culture that they've developed of fighting hard. They have bonded this year and we really needed for this team to actually look like a team for a change. Those are some of the things that we accomplished this year.
Solace
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4/1/2007  10:39 PM
Posted by nixluva:

You've got to be kidding me! I don't think it's in anyway clear cut that losing a bunch of key players is EVER good. The argument is wether it makes a difference when the injuries are spread out or come all together at one time. In our case it's clear that you don't want to have all of the injuries at the same time. As for this seasons slow start, the knicks started off slow due to a lack of cohesion and a tough opening schedule. I don't think anyone predicted that the team would come out of the gates blazing, with a new coach and system and coming off of the disaster that was last year.

Now I do expect that the team should start of better next year, having at least gone thru a season together under this system and thus not having to start from scratch. I think we come out of this year having a good feeling about Steph, Curry, Lee, Balkman and Collins. If both Q and Jamal heal well, both of them showed themselves to be good contributors this year too. I liked how Q was playing before his back started acting up. We tend to forget all of these things because of how things have gone recently.

The team responded well after the brawl and suspensions. They've also fought hard with all of these key players injured. Those are good positives. Still some of us want to harp on the actual number of wins and losses as if that's what was most important this year. NOT for this developing team. I would've loved for them to reach .500, but more important to me is how the team grows and I like the culture that they've developed of fighting hard. They have bonded this year and we really needed for this team to actually look like a team for a change. Those are some of the things that we accomplished this year.

Too sugarcoated. The initial post was that .500 was attainable minus the injuries. Tough sell, since we weren't there with almost all of our key players healthy. Do we win a few extra games over the course of a season if everyone is healthy? Most likely. But we have a long way to go. Right now, the fact that we're threatening to threaten to be a .500 team means we have a long way to go for respectability... it's not a given, and possibly no better than a 20% chance that we're a .500 team next year.

[Edited by - Solace on Apr 01 2007 10:39 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
franco12
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4/1/2007  10:58 PM
Here's the problem with the injury to Crawford- he is a good player- but he shouldn't be a starter. Ergo, we're already stretched thin.

Here is what I take away from this season-

we have 10 really good players on our roster-

but we rarely have the five best players out on the court

Collins, Lee, Balkman, Jeffries, Frye- they've shown the can play and be good and useful


Isiah has to find a way at some point to take 2-3 players and turn them into a much better player.
EnySpree
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4/1/2007  11:17 PM
If Dallas lost Howard, Jason terry, stackhouse, and dampier.....how would they do?

Those players are the knicks versions of Q, craw, Steve francis, and David lee.

Edit: no way am I saying the knicks are elite. I'm just proving the amount of injuries to the knicks key players is crippling. If Dallas lost those guys for time like that they would be battling the 8th spot too.

[Edited by - enyspree on 01-04-2007 11:28 PM]
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the injuries may have cost us a season

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