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Can someone please tell me....
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NYK3
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3/27/2007  7:52 AM
HOW THE HELL IS THIS EVIDENT PROGRESS???


I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
AUTOADVERT
islesfan
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3/27/2007  9:53 AM
It's not. Giving Isiah the extension was the easy way out for Dolan. He admitted that he didn't want to deal with the hassle of "starting over".

Dolan is a ****ing moron.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Sportsfan00
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3/27/2007  10:19 AM
Posted by NYK3:

HOW THE HELL IS THIS EVIDENT PROGRESS???

In the land of make believe it is... Thats Knickland! you know when the players tell the ownership what to do or else and then when they get their way they sit back and relax.
joec32033
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3/27/2007  10:23 AM
Posted by NYK3:

HOW THE HELL IS THIS EVIDENT PROGRESS???

By comparing it to the worst season a circus can ever have, it technically is.
~You can't run from who you are.~
franco12
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3/27/2007  10:39 AM
even with the collapse, I think its evident progress- the question is of degrees.

Marbury is playing the best ball of his career- same for curry.

Crawford has proven by his absence to be a good player- probably worth his contract.

Q stepped up before he broke down.

Would that have been enough for me if I was making the decision of extending of firing Isiah? NO.
MS
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3/27/2007  10:50 AM
Ok so Q is probably never going to be healthy again, Marbury has played well and with character for 60% of the year

Crawford is worth his contract why? Because we are missing Lee and Q somehow 40% and no defense proves your a good player?

right?
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  1:26 PM
Don Chaney and Lenny Wilkens were villanized and run out of town for winning more games with less talent.

Isiah has gone out and built the team he wanted. Won few games and is sticking around because he made us younger.
I just hope that people will like me
TheGame
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3/27/2007  1:29 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Don Chaney and Lenny Wilkens were villanized and run out of town for winning more games with less talent.

Isiah has gone out and built the team he wanted. Won few games and is sticking around because he made us younger.


Those teams had less talent, but more basketball smarts, which is really what is holding this team back. We beat ourselves more times than the other team beats us.
Trust the Process
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  2:29 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bippity10:

Don Chaney and Lenny Wilkens were villanized and run out of town for winning more games with less talent.

Isiah has gone out and built the team he wanted. Won few games and is sticking around because he made us younger.


Those teams had less talent, but more basketball smarts, which is really what is holding this team back. We beat ourselves more times than the other team beats us.

I agree and this is what most of us have been discussing since the Allan HOuston injury derailed our initial plan. All of a sudden we started targeting guys that have never won and have had question marks up the wazoo about character, effort and team play. Then are shocked when our team has trouble winning, loses confidence under pressure, doesn't give effort in crucial games and plays and bickers and whines to the media. Target high quality capable players and you get integrity. Mash together a bunch of guys that don't know how to play the game and this is what you get.

Isiah needs to use Balkman and Lee as a standard and only target high energy, high integrity guys. Hopefully along the way he can find guys that can also play both sides of the ball. Enough of the castoffs. I was almost castrated for saying this crap would happen this year. I am not surprised. Some are, and I don't know why. YOu get what you pay for.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  2:31 PM
Every move that was made the UK mafia screamed out why? Then said what the results of the move would be. Every day they were called Net fans. Now the things they have been complaining about are just becoming more evident.
I just hope that people will like me
bitty41
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3/27/2007  2:51 PM
Isiah needs to use Balkman and Lee as a standard and only target high energy, high integrity guys. Hopefully along the way he can find guys that can also play both sides of the ball. Enough of the castoffs. I was almost castrated for saying this crap would happen this year. I am not surprised. Some are, and I don't know why. YOu get what you pay for.

Why use Balkman and Lee as the standard as opposed to taking a look at teams that have acutal success and trying to model after that? What would a team full of Balkmans and Lees get us that right there is another major problem in the Knicks "rebuilding or whatever the hell its called process" they have too many players with almost the same exact style of play. The Knicks are in desperate need of versatility. What the Knicks need is a true point guard, a true shooting guard and a true small forward. Enough we these psuedo point guards, shooting guards whose 3 point percentage is lower than the US GDP, and small forwards who cann't even hit the side of the rim on a 15 foot jump shot with a free-throw percentage comparable to Shaq.
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  3:38 PM
If you read my post you would notice the sarcasm when I stated "Hopefully along the way he can find guys that can also play both sides of the ball". If you know my posting at all I am the poster boy for raising the standard. Every post I made talks of this.

The point of my post is that I want Isiah to eventually develop some type of standard. Instead of comparing our record to last year and using that as evident progress. Instead of trying to make the playoffs with 35 wins in a pathetic conference and calling that progress. Why not focus upon playing up to the best teams in the league. Taht should be your competition. Not the Toronto's of the world. Yes we know we aren't ready to acheive that now. But when you set your goals high you will acheive high.

Our goal was to prove Larry wrong. That was our only goal this year. We beat his 23 wins, showed "evident progress" and then completely relaxed. Now it's nothing but excuses and finding a scapegoat(Stevie). The beat goes on.
I just hope that people will like me
JohnWallace44
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3/27/2007  4:30 PM
Posted by NYK3:

HOW THE HELL IS THIS EVIDENT PROGRESS???

When you try to take gambles on players that other teams won't in order to jump back into contention, this is the team you're going to get.

When Q plays, he's a valuable player on any team.... When he plays...
Nate is spectacular one moment, horrible the next
Marbury has taken years to mature, and his knees could go at any time
Francis must have grown up playing in the subways instead of the park because he shoots like the Garden ceiling is 10 feet high
JJSnacks seems like he could be better with the kind of minutes he had in Seattle, but not in spots... who knew?
Jeff is good with certain players on the floor, awful with others - Balkman same deal, Collins, same deal
Curry, was great for a while, he's still got a ways to go

They certainly play like they want to be out there, which is 'evident progress' over last year.



Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
efw
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3/27/2007  4:35 PM
you have to ask what your looking for progress FROM.

If it's from last year, then the win total is progress. If it's from 2 years ago, then you see younger players developing. If it's from Layden's teams then progress is a more interesting ball club to watch = more sales. If it's from the mid 90s teams than there no progress.

Again, progress FROM what?
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  4:42 PM
Posted by efw:

you have to ask what your looking for progress FROM.

If it's from last year, then the win total is progress. If it's from 2 years ago, then you see younger players developing. If it's from Layden's teams then progress is a more interesting ball club to watch = more sales. If it's from the mid 90s teams than there no progress.

Again, progress FROM what?

Progress from the mediocrity that started the day Patrick Ewing left. We have made none. All GM's have gone similar paths with different results. Buy time with vets while trying to rebuild with late draft picks and other unwanted, injured and unmotivated vets, hoping that they catch lighting in a bottle when they arrive. The only difference between Isiah and Layden is that Isiah may actually last long enough to get lucky.
I just hope that people will like me
MS
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3/27/2007  4:42 PM
It would have been evident progress if we started the season with this lineup

Marbury
Q
Balkman
Lee
Curry

Crawford first guy off the bench, facilitate the offense, get frye involved, while keeping him in check. We could have just used spot players like malik and cato to provide a little defense and nate should really only play 10-12 here and there......

Instead isiah let crawford play out of control, never played balkman, made frye a decoy destroying his confidence, yanked marbury in and out of the lineup played him with francis, all the while we blew easy games. Isiah has done a piss poor job as coach we haven't improved at all, still quiting, mailing in games and making excuses.
Bippity10
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3/27/2007  4:48 PM
See MS I disagree. I don't think Isiah has done a horrible job coaching. I don't see any magic formula that would make this team signficantly better than it is. I think 35-38 wins was realistic no matter what combinations we used. A great coaching job gets us 41-42 wins but that's still pretty mediocre and doesn't change who we are.

It's his job as GM that he has been horrible at. The way he has built the roster is waht has affected Frye more than anything else. How do you get him involved in the offense when all your guards either shoot or pass to Curry all game long. He also made the mistake of trying to create a Pistons type backcourt but using Craw/Francis/Marbs instead of Dumars/Thomas/Johnson. IT was his GM vision which really screeeewed his coaching and the three coaches before him.
I just hope that people will like me
arkrud
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3/27/2007  4:54 PM
The evident progress will be to get read of current front office/coaching stuff and then start developing some team integrity. Get read of broken down and lazy losers and start collecting players who need to prove that they belong.
We do have a coupe already by chance so we get a bit lucky.
I will take 10 wins season after this as a progress because this means hope.
The mess we have now is hopeless and who cares how many games they win.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
efw
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3/27/2007  4:54 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by efw:

you have to ask what your looking for progress FROM.

If it's from last year, then the win total is progress. If it's from 2 years ago, then you see younger players developing. If it's from Layden's teams then progress is a more interesting ball club to watch = more sales. If it's from the mid 90s teams than there no progress.

Again, progress FROM what?

Progress from the mediocrity that started the day Patrick Ewing left. We have made none. All GM's have gone similar paths with different results. Buy time with vets while trying to rebuild with late draft picks and other unwanted, injured and unmotivated vets, hoping that they catch lighting in a bottle when they arrive. The only difference between Isiah and Layden is that Isiah may actually last long enough to get lucky.

Isn't that the point? Remaining patient to see how things shake out? Although we haven't won a championship in 3 decades, we had 10 years of good, entertaining, playoff basketball. If you need to start over again, which we needed to do, what do you expect? A turnaround in 3 years? Layden didn't do anything in his 3.5 years. To me, the team was worse off then when he started - and boring. Isiah's teams haven't produced results yet (and he's had his share of F-ups to be sure) but there are possibilites. To me, that's progress.

I'm disappointed with how the season ended but that doesn't mean I don't think the same way I did when the team was playing well - encouraged. Maybe some of our kids will turn out to be great NBA players. Maybe we can pull of a Villanueva-Ford type deal and suddenly our chemistry will explode like Toronto's. If you keep firing GMs and coaches, then how can you see the results of your efforts?
arkrud
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3/27/2007  5:01 PM
Posted by efw:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by efw:

you have to ask what your looking for progress FROM.

If it's from last year, then the win total is progress. If it's from 2 years ago, then you see younger players developing. If it's from Layden's teams then progress is a more interesting ball club to watch = more sales. If it's from the mid 90s teams than there no progress.

Again, progress FROM what?

Progress from the mediocrity that started the day Patrick Ewing left. We have made none. All GM's have gone similar paths with different results. Buy time with vets while trying to rebuild with late draft picks and other unwanted, injured and unmotivated vets, hoping that they catch lighting in a bottle when they arrive. The only difference between Isiah and Layden is that Isiah may actually last long enough to get lucky.

Isn't that the point? Remaining patient to see how things shake out? Although we haven't won a championship in 3 decades, we had 10 years of good, entertaining, playoff basketball. If you need to start over again, which we needed to do, what do you expect? A turnaround in 3 years? Layden didn't do anything in his 3.5 years. To me, the team was worse off then when he started - and boring. Isiah's teams haven't produced results yet (and he's had his share of F-ups to be sure) but there are possibilites. To me, that's progress.

I'm disappointed with how the season ended but that doesn't mean I don't think the same way I did when the team was playing well - encouraged. Maybe some of our kids will turn out to be great NBA players. Maybe we can pull of a Villanueva-Ford type deal and suddenly our chemistry will explode like Toronto's. If you keep firing GMs and coaches, then how can you see the results of your efforts?

Isiah already there for more that 3 years and we are f..ed up more that ever.
I am not talking about what we have but what we can use in the future.
The value of the players we have is junk and we have no draft light also.
We have 5 players looking into medical retirement. Comeon...
Any company is this condition will file for bancroupsy... and will never get even chapter 11...



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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