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salary cap nonsense
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BigSm00th
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3/21/2007  4:08 AM
the knicks overspending really is maddening. remember matt carroll? ND shooting guard now on the bobcats who shoots 42% from downtown and averages 12 points in 25 minutes a game (ie the EXACT player that would prevent teams from doubling curry). remember when he went undrafted i believe and then he was on the knicks summer league and preseason squad and played well but they couldn't retain him because they had too many guys under contract.

i dont think it will ever stop but it really is frustrating, guys like jared F-ING jeffries and jerome james taking up spots and making insane amounts of money, and diamonds in the rough like carroll slip through our fingers (starks and oakley would have too if these clowns were running things back then).

does anyone else find it unacceptable that jalen rose and maurice taylor are on the books right now? why were these idiots acquired?

this offseason is going to be the deciding factor in terms of how i view isiah and the direction this team is heading. they have a very nice, young frontline headlined by Lee, the best rebounder in our division and one of the best in the league, and curry, a great back to the basket scorer who, for all his faults, is still huge (can't teach size) and young. frye has cowardly stretches but then will drop 20/8 and people will go back to fawning over his potential. he needs to be consistent. balkman is mr. energy, i love what he brings. a perfect 5th man on the floor who doesn't need shots and will play hectic D and rebound. i love lee and balkman, and i think frye and curry bring more to the table than they take from it.

but with the balkman drafting, why do we sign jared jeffries?
with the curry trade, why do we sign jerome big snacks james?

our backcourt is old and deterioating. the one guy who is not on the downward slope of his career is jamal crawford, and he is probably the most inconsistent player in the NBA (though when he is on, he's one of the best scorers, hands down). nate is a sideshow, he should be employed by MSG to do dunks off trampolines at halftime. that, or trade him, but i don't want him on this team. mardy collins is a punk who hasn't shown me much of anything, i would have rather had craig smith.

what is isiah going to do this offseason? will he continue to handcuff the knicks with horrific signings and stupid trades, or will he stick to the plan and try to get younger, to get players who will contribute to consistent effort night-in, night-out?

that, more than his substitutions or his stupid cop-outs before games ('this isn't an important game', 'we're defenseless') or anything else, will dictate whether the knicks will evolve into a contender or wallow in mediocrity.

i like lee and balkman, i am still intrigued by the upside of frye, curry, and crawford. starbury is still the leader. malik rose is a good vet presence who will be on the team simply b/c nobody else wants him @ his $.

everyone else, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

what will it be isiah? is the ship sinking, or will this team ultimately make noise?

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 03-21-2007 7:14 PM]
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sbensol74
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3/21/2007  9:26 AM
in isiah's defense - we signed big snacks before we got can't dunk eddy.

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franco12
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3/21/2007  9:55 AM
I don't have a problem with Crawford and Nate as players- its just that our backcourt has too many similar weaknesses- we lack defense and a strong outside shooter.

And yes- Carroll would look awesome out there right now.

Personally, I'm hoping Balkman could develop a decent outside shot because he would be awesome as a 2/3.
TMS
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3/21/2007  9:58 AM
does anyone else find it unacceptable that jalen rose and maurice taylor are on the books right now? why were these idiots acquired?

you said you like Balkman... Isiah got the pick to draft him by trading for Jalen Rose from TOR.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Solace
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3/21/2007  11:14 AM
Posted by TMS:
does anyone else find it unacceptable that jalen rose and maurice taylor are on the books right now? why were these idiots acquired?

you said you like Balkman... Isiah got the pick to draft him by trading for Jalen Rose from TOR.

Ever go to the grocery store and say you're in the mood for apples? Well, today, apples are $50 each. If you go to the next door grocery store, you could get the apple for $1. Most people go for the $1 apple, as they're the same. Isiah goes for the $50 apple. Some would say that it's worth it, because Isiah successfully got the apple. Others would say it was poor because he overpaid, and they'd rather not have an apple for $50.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
misterearl
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3/21/2007  11:23 AM
Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]
once a knick always a knick
TheGame
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3/21/2007  11:25 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
does anyone else find it unacceptable that jalen rose and maurice taylor are on the books right now? why were these idiots acquired?

you said you like Balkman... Isiah got the pick to draft him by trading for Jalen Rose from TOR.

Ever go to the grocery store and say you're in the mood for apples? Well, today, apples are $50 each. If you go to the next door grocery store, you could get the apple for $1. Most people go for the $1 apple, as they're the same. Isiah goes for the $50 apple. Some would say that it's worth it, because Isiah successfully got the apple. Others would say it was poor because he overpaid, and they'd rather not have an apple for $50.

Well, it is not quite that simple because no two players are the same and every person values a players talent differently. But it is clear that IT overpaid for some player's. He has overvalued his FA signings and undervalued the rookies that he has drafted. I think he is beginning to learn from those mistakes and hopefully they will not be repeated in the future.

[Edited by - thegame on 03-21-2007 11:26 AM]
Trust the Process
TheGame
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3/21/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.
Trust the Process
Solace
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3/21/2007  11:30 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TMS:
does anyone else find it unacceptable that jalen rose and maurice taylor are on the books right now? why were these idiots acquired?

you said you like Balkman... Isiah got the pick to draft him by trading for Jalen Rose from TOR.

Ever go to the grocery store and say you're in the mood for apples? Well, today, apples are $50 each. If you go to the next door grocery store, you could get the apple for $1. Most people go for the $1 apple, as they're the same. Isiah goes for the $50 apple. Some would say that it's worth it, because Isiah successfully got the apple. Others would say it was poor because he overpaid, and they'd rather not have an apple for $50.

Well, it is not quite that simple because no two players are the same and every person values a players talent differently. But it is clear that IT overpaid for some player's. He has overvalued his FA signings and undervalued the rookies that he has drafted. I think he is beginning to learn from those mistakes and hopefully they will not be repeated in the future.

[Edited by - thegame on 03-21-2007 11:26 AM]

Well, like I've said before, I think Isiah GMs like most people GM when they play Playstation NBA games. The problem is that the real NBA isn't the Playstation. If Isiah is learning from his mistakes, great, but why did it take $500 million wasted before he started to learn?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
islesfan
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3/21/2007  12:22 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TheGame
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3/21/2007  12:40 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.

Isles, I am not going to try and defend the JJ1 signing because it was a bad move. All I am saying is that at the time it was made, we had no centers on the team and JJ1 was the best experienced center available. IT overestimated his ability to get this guy motivated and once we signed Curry, the focus shifted from JJ1. If we did not have Curry and IT was forced to get more out of JJ1, I think he could have coached JJ1 into being a passable center because he does have NBA talent (he just does not have a high basketball IQ or professional work ethic). Would I have done the move? No, because JJ1 did not deserve more than a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million based on his past performances (and that is assuming you are desperate for a center like we were).
Trust the Process
Panos
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3/21/2007  1:11 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.

Isles, I am not going to try and defend the JJ1 signing because it was a bad move. All I am saying is that at the time it was made, we had no centers on the team and JJ1 was the best experienced center available. IT overestimated his ability to get this guy motivated and once we signed Curry, the focus shifted from JJ1. If we did not have Curry and IT was forced to get more out of JJ1, I think he could have coached JJ1 into being a passable center because he does have NBA talent (he just does not have a high basketball IQ or professional work ethic). Would I have done the move? No, because JJ1 did not deserve more than a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million based on his past performances (and that is assuming you are desperate for a center like we were).

That and he gave Nazr away for Malik (I don't care that we got draft picks, the could have been gotten cheaper -- it was a terrible trade). We also had Jackie Blue who was already a better center than JJ1. That, and he just drafted a rookie center and just needed a vet backup.
All I have to say is one thing. Not only was it a stupid move but he compounded it by giving him a FIVE YEAR CONTRACT! Inexcusable!

highfivesucka
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3/21/2007  1:41 PM
im wishing we still had Jackie Butler. the kid's talent is wasting away, and he's just sitting on the bench down in san antonio.
^precocious neophyte.
Bippity10
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3/21/2007  2:47 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.

Isles, I am not going to try and defend the JJ1 signing because it was a bad move. All I am saying is that at the time it was made, we had no centers on the team and JJ1 was the best experienced center available. IT overestimated his ability to get this guy motivated and once we signed Curry, the focus shifted from JJ1. If we did not have Curry and IT was forced to get more out of JJ1, I think he could have coached JJ1 into being a passable center because he does have NBA talent (he just does not have a high basketball IQ or professional work ethic). Would I have done the move? No, because JJ1 did not deserve more than a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million based on his past performances (and that is assuming you are desperate for a center like we were).

That's part of the problem. Instead of finding the best fit, we go out and find the best available regardless of fit. Then we overpay them. There is no need for that. We weren't fighting for a title last year so why did we act desperate for a center? Because there was no plan. The fact that we were stuck without a center in the first place proves to you there was no plan. Think aobut that.
I just hope that people will like me
TheGame
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3/21/2007  3:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.

Isles, I am not going to try and defend the JJ1 signing because it was a bad move. All I am saying is that at the time it was made, we had no centers on the team and JJ1 was the best experienced center available. IT overestimated his ability to get this guy motivated and once we signed Curry, the focus shifted from JJ1. If we did not have Curry and IT was forced to get more out of JJ1, I think he could have coached JJ1 into being a passable center because he does have NBA talent (he just does not have a high basketball IQ or professional work ethic). Would I have done the move? No, because JJ1 did not deserve more than a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million based on his past performances (and that is assuming you are desperate for a center like we were).

That's part of the problem. Instead of finding the best fit, we go out and find the best available regardless of fit. Then we overpay them. There is no need for that. We weren't fighting for a title last year so why did we act desperate for a center? Because there was no plan. The fact that we were stuck without a center in the first place proves to you there was no plan. Think aobut that.

Bip, we needed a center because we had no one on the team taller than 6'8". The problem with the JJ1 signing is not so much the fact that IT signed him, but the price that he paid for him. No one was really bidding on this guy's services because of his history of underperforming. We could have gotten him for a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million per season. Given how JJ1 has played, that probably still would be a bad deal, but for an experienced center with skills that you hope to be able to motivate to perform consistently, we probably would have needed to offer something in that range. 5 years at $30 million is clearly too much and basically makes JJ1 untradeable.

Why did we have no center? I don't think it was due to a lack of a plan. I think the problem occurred when IT started changing the plan. IT kept jumping at opportunties, such as Curry, which gave the impression that he never had any plan. I guess in reality it really does not matter because having a plan but constantly changing it is the same as not having a plan at all. Hopefully, IT now has a clear view of what he is trying to do with the team. I think actually having to coach the players is sharpening his focus on what the team needs.
Trust the Process
Masterplan
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3/21/2007  3:11 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]

travis knight, yes?
Bippity10
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3/21/2007  3:19 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by misterearl:

Big SmOOth - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Go back to the Knicks roster the year Matt Carroll was in camp and tell me, based on Carroll's performance in that rookie training camp, who you would have cut to create a roster spot for him.(?)

[Edited by - misterearl on 03-21-2007 11:24 AM]


This is true too because when we signed JJ1 he was an upgrade over what we had. Unfortunately, JJ1 proved to be as inept as people thought and we were able to get Curry later in the summer. So now the signing looks more terrible than it would have been if we did not get Curry.

Stop it. Big Snacks is never an upgrade over anything. Like you said even fans of other teams realized how incredibly inept he was and giving him any contract other than the league minimum for 1 year is way too much. That's the $50 apple when you could have had it for 1 cent.

Isles, I am not going to try and defend the JJ1 signing because it was a bad move. All I am saying is that at the time it was made, we had no centers on the team and JJ1 was the best experienced center available. IT overestimated his ability to get this guy motivated and once we signed Curry, the focus shifted from JJ1. If we did not have Curry and IT was forced to get more out of JJ1, I think he could have coached JJ1 into being a passable center because he does have NBA talent (he just does not have a high basketball IQ or professional work ethic). Would I have done the move? No, because JJ1 did not deserve more than a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million based on his past performances (and that is assuming you are desperate for a center like we were).

That's part of the problem. Instead of finding the best fit, we go out and find the best available regardless of fit. Then we overpay them. There is no need for that. We weren't fighting for a title last year so why did we act desperate for a center? Because there was no plan. The fact that we were stuck without a center in the first place proves to you there was no plan. Think aobut that.

Bip, we needed a center because we had no one on the team taller than 6'8". The problem with the JJ1 signing is not so much the fact that IT signed him, but the price that he paid for him. No one was really bidding on this guy's services because of his history of underperforming. We could have gotten him for a 2-3 year deal at $2-$3 million per season. Given how JJ1 has played, that probably still would be a bad deal, but for an experienced center with skills that you hope to be able to motivate to perform consistently, we probably would have needed to offer something in that range. 5 years at $30 million is clearly too much and basically makes JJ1 untradeable.

Why did we have no center? I don't think it was due to a lack of a plan. I think the problem occurred when IT started changing the plan. IT kept jumping at opportunties, such as Curry, which gave the impression that he never had any plan. I guess in reality it really does not matter because having a plan but constantly changing it is the same as not having a plan at all. Hopefully, IT now has a clear view of what he is trying to do with the team. I think actually having to coach the players is sharpening his focus on what the team needs.

That's what I'm saying. We didn't have anyone over 6-8 or 6-9 because of the GM. Then the GM desperate for height overpays for a guy that has never proven he can perform and doesn't fit any future plans. So why not just stopgap and get someone he stinks and focus your attention on players taht can help you in the future. This is what successful people do. They stick to a proven plan. Isiah got side tracked in his desperatiion for a center and overpaid. And then tried to sell the idiot fans about how good JJ is. Then when we all balked, we were called haters.
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salary cap nonsense

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