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Is this why LB wanted to blow up the roster
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playa2
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3/17/2007  12:32 PM
As a veteran coach who has coached for over 35 yrs, Larry saw at practice and after games what kind of players Isiah assembled together .

He knew the only thing they were loyal to was isiah thomas not the game of professional basketball.

LB knew about the rigors and grind of the nba schedule and postseason.

He knew a few wins here and there would not make this team a contender based on the mentality of the players (THEY CAN'T HANDLE MSG) not mentally tuff enough .

Now on this roster we are stuck with guys who laugh when it ain't funny and scratch when they don't itch !
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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TheGame
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3/17/2007  12:50 PM
Guys, it is a tough loss and we are missing some key players. This whole "we have no winners on this team" attitude is a bit much. Marbury is playing at a high level, and Lee, Q, Rose, Balkman, and Collins strike me as players with heady games, who want to and have the ability to win games. Even Crawford is a player that cares about winning and has some skills. Curry and Frye have alot of work to do on their games, but Curry has improved this year and Frye is still just a second year player. You add a Rashard Lewis at the 3 and a more solid backup PG, and a shot-blocker and rebounder, and a two-way SG and this team would be as tough as any in the league. We have a 1st round draft pick, and in Crawford, Frye and Nate, we have some tradable assets. We are going to need a few more pieces, but I don't think that we need a whole new team, which is what LB apparently wanted (along with GM duties).

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nixluva
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3/17/2007  12:59 PM
Posted by TheGame:

Guys, it is a tough loss and we are missing some key players. This whole "we have no winners on this team" attitude is a bit much. Marbury is playing at a high level, and Lee, Q, Rose, Balkman, and Collins strike me as players with heady games, who want to and have the ability to win games. Even Crawford is a player that cares about winning and has some skills. Curry and Frye have alot of work to do on their games, but Curry has improved this year and Frye is still just a second year player. You add a Rashard Lewis at the 3 and a more solid backup PG, and a shot-blocker and rebounder, and a two-way SG and this team would be as tough as any in the league. We have a 1st round draft pick, and in Crawford, Frye and Nate, we have some tradable assets. We are going to need a few more pieces, but I don't think that we need a whole new team, which is what LB apparently wanted (along with GM duties).

BRAVO!!! This was an excellent post! Clear headed and reasonable. There are just too many fans here who react to every loss as if it's a permanent indictment of this teams future. No recognition of how important a loss Lee has been. Before he went down, everyone was in agreement as to how key he was for this team. Now it's not enough of a reason for us to be struggling. If he's there in these games I think we could've gone on a big upswing in wins. It turns out in my mind that LB was wrong about this team. He thought that it would be more of the same if we had the same players. That's what he actually said. So he was WRONG!!!

Going forward this team should get better not worse. We've established a base to build from. With some roster tweaks and growth from within this team should be better next year. PATIENCE!!!!
djsunyc
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3/17/2007  1:17 PM
Posted by TheGame:

Guys, it is a tough loss and we are missing some key players. This whole "we have no winners on this team" attitude is a bit much. Marbury is playing at a high level, and Lee, Q, Rose, Balkman, and Collins strike me as players with heady games, who want to and have the ability to win games. Even Crawford is a player that cares about winning and has some skills. Curry and Frye have alot of work to do on their games, but Curry has improved this year and Frye is still just a second year player. You add a Rashard Lewis at the 3 and a more solid backup PG, and a shot-blocker and rebounder, and a two-way SG and this team would be as tough as any in the league. We have a 1st round draft pick, and in Crawford, Frye and Nate, we have some tradable assets. We are going to need a few more pieces, but I don't think that we need a whole new team, which is what LB apparently wanted (along with GM duties).

i agree that people are waiting to chomp on the bit persay but there's one thing that the past 2 weeks (since the injuries) have revealed...that eddy only cares about one thing and that's getting the ball on offense. he makes no effort in any way defensively. he makes no effort trying to help the team in any other way. and that's a pretty darn big revelation, imho.

marbury? who cares? the guy has no place on this team moving forward.
francis? he's getting bought out this summer.

the other guys? inconsequential. a collection of backups.
Allanfan20
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3/17/2007  1:28 PM
marbury? who cares? the guy has no place on this team moving forward.

You can deny it all you want, but he's getting an extension after his contract is up.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TheGame
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3/17/2007  1:34 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
marbury? who cares? the guy has no place on this team moving forward.

You can deny it all you want, but he's getting an extension after his contract is up.

I don't have a problem with that as long as it is not for $20 million per season. Hopefully, even IT is not that crazy. A 3 year extension at $8-$9 million per for a 32 year old former allstar PG would seem fair assuming Marbury is still playing at a high level. That is about what Cassel got (for 2 years) and is similar to the deal Sprewell turned down.

[Edited by - thegame on 03-17-2007 1:35 PM]
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djsunyc
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3/17/2007  1:37 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Allanfan20:
marbury? who cares? the guy has no place on this team moving forward.

You can deny it all you want, but he's getting an extension after his contract is up.

I don't have a problem with that as long as it is not for $20 million per season. Hopefully, even IT is not that crazy. A 3 year extension at $8-$9 million per for a 32 year old former allstar PG would seem fair assuming Marbury is still playing at a high level. That is about what Cassel got (for 2 years) and is similar to the deal Sprewell turned down.

ok, are you eating paint chips? why on earth would this team still want marbury around? he does not help us. he is not a point guard. he has no place here moving forward. the guy has problems giving it to eddy in the post. all the guy can do is score, and he's on his last legs. extension? that would be the worst thing i can possibly imagine.

and cassel gets his teams to win...and not just win little, but win big...much more than before he gets there.
nixluva
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3/17/2007  1:40 PM
STeph is still a part of this team until he can't do it anymore. He obviously can still play at a high level. He's just turned 30, meanwhile Kidd is going on 34 and Nash is 33. It's VERY possible that Steph will still be effective in the next 3-4 years. Especially once we settle the backup PG situation.

As for Curry, the guy can help us win games. We need to have the roster adjusted a bit more to fit his game. We currently are missing his Oakley, since Lee is down. We don't have our 3 pt threats either, so that takes away some of the things that can help to make him more effective. Getting better perimeter defense would also help. Down the line I see bigger roles for Balkman and Collins, who certainly can defend in this league.

Adding another 2 way player at the swing postion and perhaps a shotblocking help defender would do wonders for this team. I think the pessimism around here for this teams future is WAY too high. You guys are letting losses effect your judgement. In the NBA one key addition can mean the world to a team and who knows what Isiah may be able to do in that regard.
djsunyc
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3/17/2007  1:43 PM
Posted by nixluva:

STeph is still a part of this team until he can't do it anymore. He obviously can still play at a high level. He's just turned 30, meanwhile Kidd is going on 34 and Nash is 33. It's VERY possible that Steph will still be effective in the next 3-4 years. Especially once we settle the backup PG situation.

As for Curry, the guy can help us win games. We need to have the roster adjusted a bit more to fit his game. We currently are missing his Oakley, since Lee is down. We don't have our 3 pt threats either, so that takes away some of the things that can help to make him more effective. Getting better perimeter defense would also help. Down the line I see bigger roles for Balkman and Collins, who certainly can defend in this league.

Adding another 2 way player at the swing postion and perhaps a shotblocking help defender would do wonders for this team. I think the pessimism around here for this teams future is WAY too high. You guys are letting losses effect your judgement. In the NBA one key addition can mean the world to a team and who knows what Isiah may be able to do in that regard.

the pessimism predates last night's loss. in fact, the pessimism, at least on my part, predates this season.

the "key" addition you're talking about is an mvp caliber addition. something that ain't so easy to do.
nixluva
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3/17/2007  1:54 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the "key" addition you're talking about is an mvp caliber addition. something that ain't so easy to do.

WHAT? Why does it have to be an MVP caliber player? That's just crazy talk. Now you're saying that the only way this team can get better is by adding an MVP type player to the roster? WHY is that? Imagine this team with a player like Kevin Martin. You don't have to be a MVP player to make a huge impact on how a team plays. What I'll say is that with the right changes this team could easily move up in the East to the upper echelon of teams. IF we didn't do anything at all this offseason, I expect we'd be a little over .500 on the season next year. However I fully expect that Isiah will look to tweak this roster a bit to fit the way this team is going to be playing now that Curry is the focus inside.

DUDE you've gotta regain the love you had and the optimisim that i'm sure you at one time may have had for the team. All is not lost. You've gotta stop being so down on the team. I sense with each loss that your hope is diminishing. Just remember that it's not about this year and it never was. Even if everything broke right this year, we'd still be looking at changes for the future, to improve this team.
djsunyc
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3/17/2007  2:04 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by djsunyc:

the "key" addition you're talking about is an mvp caliber addition. something that ain't so easy to do.

WHAT? Why does it have to be an MVP caliber player? That's just crazy talk. Now you're saying that the only way this team can get better is by adding an MVP type player to the roster? WHY is that? Imagine this team with a player like Kevin Martin. You don't have to be a MVP player to make a huge impact on how a team plays. What I'll say is that with the right changes this team could easily move up in the East to the upper echelon of teams. IF we didn't do anything at all this offseason, I expect we'd be a little over .500 on the season next year. However I fully expect that Isiah will look to tweak this roster a bit to fit the way this team is going to be playing now that Curry is the focus inside.

DUDE you've gotta regain the love you had and the optimisim that i'm sure you at one time may have had for the team. All is not lost. You've gotta stop being so down on the team. I sense with each loss that your hope is diminishing. Just remember that it's not about this year and it never was. Even if everything broke right this year, we'd still be looking at changes for the future, to improve this team.

the love is there, always been there. it's just not "unconditional."

and it was always about this year. it was about isiah's extension and that's it.
TheGame
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3/17/2007  2:06 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Allanfan20:
marbury? who cares? the guy has no place on this team moving forward.

You can deny it all you want, but he's getting an extension after his contract is up.

I don't have a problem with that as long as it is not for $20 million per season. Hopefully, even IT is not that crazy. A 3 year extension at $8-$9 million per for a 32 year old former allstar PG would seem fair assuming Marbury is still playing at a high level. That is about what Cassel got (for 2 years) and is similar to the deal Sprewell turned down.

ok, are you eating paint chips? why on earth would this team still want marbury around? he does not help us. he is not a point guard. he has no place here moving forward. the guy has problems giving it to eddy in the post. all the guy can do is score, and he's on his last legs. extension? that would be the worst thing i can possibly imagine.

and cassel gets his teams to win...and not just win little, but win big...much more than before he gets there.

You are just going to let Steph go to replace him with who? I am not saying the Knicks have to be married to the guy, but I don't see Steph as the problem right now and if he is still playing at a high level and we can agree to a contract that is not going to hinder the Knicks longer term, I have no problem with him retiring as a Knick. Obviously, if we get a younger prospect or a young FA becomes available, we should probably move on, but I would not foreclose the possibility of resigning Steph to a reasonable extension. Now I am certianly not suggesting that we should be paying steph $12 or more million a year to stay.
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BlueSeats
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3/17/2007  2:08 PM
Posted by TheGame:
I don't have a problem with that as long as it is not for $20 million per season. Hopefully, even IT is not that crazy. A 3 year extension at $8-$9 million per for a 32 year old former allstar PG would seem fair assuming Marbury is still playing at a high level. That is about what Cassel got (for 2 years) and is similar to the deal Sprewell turned down.


So where in Brooklyn do you live?
nyk4ever
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3/17/2007  2:10 PM
Posted by TheGame:


You are just going to let Steph go to replace him with who? I am not saying the Knicks have to be married to the guy, but I don't see Steph as the problem right now and if he is still playing at a high level and we can agree to a contract that is not going to hinder the Knicks longer term, I have no problem with him retiring as a Knick. Obviously, if we get a younger prospect or a young FA becomes available, we should probably move on, but I would not foreclose the possibility of resigning Steph to a reasonable extension. Now I am certianly not suggesting that we should be paying steph $12 or more million a year to stay.

Just curious Game, what would you think a fair salary for Marbury would be when his contract is up? It's a tough question to answer because its hard to predict the future, but say in 2009 Marbury finishes the year averaging 14/6. Whats a resonable contract for him in YOUR opinion?

Edit: Sigh NM, just saw your post earlier.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03-17-2007 2:10 PM]
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TheGame
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3/17/2007  2:20 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TheGame:


You are just going to let Steph go to replace him with who? I am not saying the Knicks have to be married to the guy, but I don't see Steph as the problem right now and if he is still playing at a high level and we can agree to a contract that is not going to hinder the Knicks longer term, I have no problem with him retiring as a Knick. Obviously, if we get a younger prospect or a young FA becomes available, we should probably move on, but I would not foreclose the possibility of resigning Steph to a reasonable extension. Now I am certianly not suggesting that we should be paying steph $12 or more million a year to stay.

Just curious Game, what would you think a fair salary for Marbury would be when his contract is up? It's a tough question to answer because its hard to predict the future, but say in 2009 Marbury finishes the year averaging 14/6. Whats a resonable contract for him in YOUR opinion?

Edit: Sigh NM, just saw your post earlier.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03-17-2007 2:10 PM]

It really all depends on how Steph develops. He is playing fairly well now and is trying to be a team leader. If he continues to play like this for the next 2 years, why is it a must that we have to let him go. Maybe at that time the better move would be to resign him to a reasonable deal and I think something in neighborhood of $8-9 mill per year for no more than 3 years would be reasonable (again assuming he is still playing at this level). You get Steph for two years and you can then use him as trade bait in the final year of the deal to help get you another player. This is all speculation. When the time comes it might be clear that we need to move in another direction and I still hope that IT continues to look for our next PG (assuming that Collins is not that guard), regardless of his thoughts on Steph. My only point is that I think Steph might have value to this team beyond the end of his current deal.
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