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if mchale was the knicks gm...
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djsunyc
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3/14/2007  11:45 AM
would dolan keep him around for 10+ years too?

he got one great player in the draft (KG) and made the playoffs every single year (even tho he advanced only once).

i bet dolan keeps him around just as long as the minny guy has.
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arkrud
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3/14/2007  11:49 AM
will be nice for Dolan
Less mony - same or better results
not sure if Mchale will stend it so long.
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nixluva
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3/14/2007  11:52 AM
HMMMMM! I'd have to say that if we had KG, Dolan would most likely have held on to McHale for a good while, but not 10 years! See in Minny the Press and Fans aren't as vicious and relentless. They would've gotten to McHale by now and there would've been some sort of meltdown or incident. It's just a different animal here. Joe Torre is the only guy that's really been able to stick around, cuz he had so much success and he has that teflon on now. McHale wouldn't have had that with all those 1st rd. and outs.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  11:56 AM
Posted by nixluva:

HMMMMM! I'd have to say that if we had KG, Dolan would most likely have held on to McHale for a good while, but not 10 years! See in Minny the Press and Fans aren't as vicious and relentless. They would've gotten to McHale by now and there would've been some sort of meltdown or incident. It's just a different animal here. Joe Torre is the only guy that's really been able to stick around, cuz he had so much success and he has that teflon on now. McHale wouldn't have had that with all those 1st rd. and outs.

could it have gotten as more brutal as it's been on isiah, especially after last season? dolan doesn't care about press and fans. it's his toy to play with.
Silverfuel
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3/14/2007  12:06 PM
The NY media wouldn't let it slide for 10 years. Dolan would be reminded every day of how bad they are. The articles these days are 50/50 in favor or anti-Knicks.
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nixluva
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3/14/2007  12:09 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

The NY media wouldn't let it slide for 10 years. Dolan would be reminded every day of how bad they are. The articles these days are 50/50 in favor or anti-Knicks.

That's my point. This is why Layden was eventually fired. Dolan was patient as usual, but fans went away and the media was relentless. With Isiah there was so much action on his part, in the 1st year and a half and then the hope that LB would make a difference. There really hasn't been enough of a chance for Dolan to feel enough pressure to act on Isiah. It was close, but LB actually saved him by being SO BAD.
arkrud
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3/14/2007  12:16 PM
IT is a man in this respect.
Can you imagine more drama?
If IT will stay fresh and do his things all the time he can serve Cablevision forever.

[Edited by - arkrud on 03-14-2007 12:16 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 03-14-2007 12:17 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TrueBlue
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3/14/2007  12:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

would dolan keep him around for 10+ years too?

he got one great player in the draft (KG) and made the playoffs every single year (even tho he advanced only once).

i bet dolan keeps him around just as long as the minny guy has.

As long as the BIG TICKET was around to put fans in the seats Dolan would care less.

Lovers would support it.

Haters after a while would want to move on and change the course.

Heck K.G. at this point wants to move on so that's an indictment on the GMing there or lack thereof.

Mchale's biggest mistake was the Joe Smith contract promise that cost them 3-4yrs of #1 draft picks I believe. It limited his trading options to get pieces to build around Garnett. I'm not quite sure the picks alone would have done any good considering Mchale's been mediocre at making the picks.

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tomverve
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3/14/2007  1:12 PM
I don't know if McHale is the best comparison for Isiah. Isiah's problem is that he's too liberal as a GM (seeks to make moves without enough consideration of the consequences), whereas McHale's major shortcoming is that he's too conservative (doesn't do anything, leaving his team in a perpetual rut). So it's hard to say what Dolan might do with McHale, but of course no level of ineptitude from Dolan would surprise anyone.
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Bonn1997
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3/14/2007  1:16 PM
Posted by tomverve:

I don't know if McHale is the best comparison for Isiah. Isiah's problem is that he's too liberal as a GM (seeks to make moves without enough consideration of the consequences), whereas McHale's major shortcoming is that he's too conservative (doesn't do anything, leaving his team in a perpetual rut). So it's hard to say what Dolan might do with McHale, but of course no level of ineptitude from Dolan would surprise anyone.

That characterized Isiah's first two years here, but since then he's been very "conservative" or quiet with roster changes.
djsunyc
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3/14/2007  1:21 PM
Posted by tomverve:

I don't know if McHale is the best comparison for Isiah. Isiah's problem is that he's too liberal as a GM (seeks to make moves without enough consideration of the consequences), whereas McHale's major shortcoming is that he's too conservative (doesn't do anything, leaving his team in a perpetual rut). So it's hard to say what Dolan might do with McHale, but of course no level of ineptitude from Dolan would surprise anyone.

layden would be more mchale "like" and he got 4 years. but if layden continued to make 1st round after 1st round, then he would still be the gm.
tomverve
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3/14/2007  1:22 PM
The only period of time during Isiah's tenure that could really be called conservative was this past deadline, when he made no trades. Every other major period of roster movement (i.e. trade deadline and offseason) has been characterized by Isiah making moves where common complaints are that he gave up too much (i.e. was too liberal) either in terms of assets or contract dollars/length.
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tomverve
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3/14/2007  1:28 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

layden would be more mchale "like" and he got 4 years. but if layden continued to make 1st round after 1st round, then he would still be the gm.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, though we can't say for sure.
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kam77
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3/14/2007  1:31 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by djsunyc:

layden would be more mchale "like" and he got 4 years. but if layden continued to make 1st round after 1st round, then he would still be the gm.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, though we can't say for sure.

Layden is white socks and sandals... not good for box office. Isiah... well, what really needs to be said when comparing the two in terms of marketing and gate appeal?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
MS
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3/14/2007  2:11 PM
15% down in ticket sales, intitially yes, but no now he has burned many bridges
kam77
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3/14/2007  4:22 PM
"15% down in ticket sales"

Does this refer to a decline in season ticket subscribtions or a 15% decrease in attendance at games over all?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
holfresh
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3/14/2007  6:28 PM
Forbes rank McHale as the best GM in sports:



Best General Managers In Sports
Jack Gage and Peter J. Schwartz 03.02.07, 6:00 PM ET



The general manager is the most influential and scrutinized position in sports because he decides how the owner's money is spent on players.

Forbes.com's first-ever proprietary look at GMs in the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB grades each GM on two yardsticks. First, there's the performance (regular season winning percentage and postseason wins) during the GM's tenure versus the performance of his predecessor. Second, there's the GM's relative (to the league median) payroll compared with his predecessor's relative payroll.

And the NBA's Minnesota Timberwolves GM Kevin McHale tops our list.
In Pictures: Sports' Hottest General Managers
Click here to view our general managers rankings.

Only the 98 current GMs with at least three years of service were reviewed. In terms of enhancing the value of a sports franchise, winning is more important than payroll. So we double-weight winning percentage in our scoring to discount GMs (like Mark Shapiro of the Cleveland Indians) who successfully cut costs but in so doing damaged their franchise.
Our rankings will surely raise some eyebrows.

The Timberwolves' McHale has been harshly criticized in the press for not giving superstar Kevin Garnett the supporting cast to win a championship. But McHale has guided the Timberwolves to eight playoff berths and a .539 regular season winning percentage--more than double his predecessor’s .244. Winning improvement under McHale has been so great that it offset a 19% rise in salary against the NBA's median payroll during his 11 years as GM.

Another GM who has been under the gun the past few years is Glen Sather of the New York Rangers. Despite a bloated payroll, which topped out at a then NHL record $76.5 million in 2003, Sather has not been able to win a single post-season game in his six years in New York. His No. 12 ranking is attributed to prolonged success in Edmonton, where Sather paired Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in building an Oilers dynasty that won five Stanley Cups.

There were also some predictable names atop our list. The highest rated baseball GM is Oakland's Billy Beane (No. 26 overall). Beane has been able to capture four division titles and win almost 60% of his games with the small-market A's by developing prospects. Beane has also kept his team’s payroll at 70% of the major league median. Having scouts emphasize statistics like on-base and slugging percentage has allowed Beane to find capable young talent to replace expensive free agent veterans.

Lou Lamoriello of the New Jersey Devils gained acclaim in hockey circles for his ability to put together championship teams with low payrolls. New Jersey's .592 winning percentage in 18 years under Lamoriello is more than twice that of his predecessor and higher than any other team in the NHL's Eastern Conference. Lamoriello has won with a payroll that has been just 75% of the typical hockey team.

Some team owners double as GMs. The success story here is Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys (No. 13), who turned the Cowboys from a has-been to a three-time Super Bowl champion. To his credit, Jones has actually spent less on players, on average, than his league counterparts during his 18-year reign. The failure? Cincinnati Bengals owner and GM Mike Brown (No. 97), who has won half as often as his predecessor, despite outpacing the league's median payroll by 4% since taking over the franchise in 1991.

Interestingly, most of MLB's GMs fall in the middle of the pack. One possible explanation is that baseball's relatively long season and greater yearly payroll fluctuations due to free agency create an unintended balancing effect.

Our rankings compare each general manager to the final three years of his predecessor's tenure in two categories: (1) performance (regular season winning percentage and playoff win totals) and (2) payroll spending (relative to the league median). Performance counts twice as much in our scoring as payroll spending. Scores account for all teams where the GM held the office and are indexed to 100. A score of 120 in winning improvement means the GM won 20% more games than his predecessor. A score of 80 in payroll containment means the GM spent 20% more than the previous GM relative to the league median.
if mchale was the knicks gm...

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