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violence in sports
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EnySpree
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3/9/2007  10:36 PM
That dude from the islanders facing possible real world criminal charges against him for clubbing a ranger player in a game the other day. The talk on it is that the nhl should handle it cuz it happened on the ice. The player has yet to apologize for what he did.

I ask you, what would have happened if this guy hit that player the right way and killed him. What would be the correct fine for that? Should the authorities get involved?

If one of you piss me off so bad that I decide to crack you in the head with my blackberry and you die, would Martin just ban me and call it a day? Even if you didn't die, would the cops leave it alone cuz it was related to the message board?

I'm being a dick. Seriously, I think this hockey guy should get prosecuted. He doesn't care about the well being of the guy he hit. Yeah he was checked hard, but it doesn't give him the right to club him. He seriously could have died if he was guy just a few inches in another direction.

All these players think its just ok to do what they want cuz they are protected by the game they play and the money they have to spend on crafty lawyers. The nhl is the worst cuz they have always allowed fighting. Its apart of the game. Basketball players get pulled through the gutter for it just cuz their is no barrier to protect the fans.

I think its bull**** and this NY islander should be charged just like anybody else.
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islesfan
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3/9/2007  11:17 PM
That Ranger got what he deserved. What he did just previous to the incident, boarding Simon head first, was a hell of a lot more dangerous than anything Simon did.

What if Simon broke his neck, does the Ranger get off because the refs are blind and didn't call a penalty? Did the Ranger care about the well being of Simon when he hit him from behind into a wall?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
SupremeCommander
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3/9/2007  11:54 PM
Posted by islesfan:

That Ranger got what he deserved. What he did just previous to the incident, boarding Simon head first, was a hell of a lot more dangerous than anything Simon did.

What if Simon broke his neck, does the Ranger get off because the refs are blind and didn't call a penalty? Did the Ranger care about the well being of Simon when he hit him from behind into a wall?

Even Barry Melrose said "('that Ranger') did what he was supposed to do and finish his check." I know you're an Isles fan, but come on. I can't believe you're making an argument for aggravated assault with a weapon. I don't care if you think that's board, you can't take a shaft and hit someone in the head--REGARDLESS. Just like if I push you from behind and you go into a wall, you can't sneak up on me and club me in the head with a baseball bat. There is no justification for intent to mame or injure.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
EnySpree
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3/10/2007  12:14 AM
I agree with supreme. This is kid stuff if he pushes me i guy him with a bat. That check was not dirty. I thought it was clean. Simon had no right to club this guy.

I'm watching sports on 1 right now and I'm pissed that the anchor is saying that ranger fans are biased. That's bull****. If that ranger player died, should Simon get banned for a few years with no prosecution. That doesn't fly. If I clubbed Allanfan for bustin my as in ball the other day or if evil killed all of is cuz he didn't win a game is it justified cuz it was in a game?

I'm really upset about it. That man could have died if it was a few inches in a different direction. That other guy that got guy a few years ago, I thought he was dead for a second.

Its not just hockey. Hockey is out of control cuz they allow fighting. Basketball is out threw the gutter for their gay fights. A player never choked a player with a jersey or violently tried to hurt a player the way those guys do. Yeah in the Denver and knicks fight should have gotten investigated by real authorities. That fight wasnt that bad. Still if carmelo seriously hurt Collins the way kermitt did Rudy then yeah he should go to jail.

I do not wanna see a dude die playing a sport. Its disgusting for anyone to suggest that Simon guy was justified. I think Simon should be **** down the rest of the year and he should also get some type of penalty from the real law. This must stop. These players must be responsible for their actions!
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islesfan
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3/10/2007  12:50 AM
I'm really not trying to justify what Simon did and I'm certainly not trying to make an argument for aggravated assault with a weapon. But to not acknowledge that Simon was dangerously boarded by that Ranger is completely unfair.

Whatever punishment Simon gets he deserves. I've seen much worse, like the Bertuzzi hit, but there's no excuse for taking a stick upside somebody's head.

Having said that, I can certainly understand why Simon was so upset. The former BU hockey player Travis Roy was paralyzed when he crashed head first into the boards. But that Ranger was just "finishing his check", against a player who didn't have the puck and was no longer part of the play.

To treat that Ranger as some innocent is a complete joke. If you want to crucify Simon for his transgressions then don't forget to show the same disgust towards his so-called "victim", for his just as dangerous actions.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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3/10/2007  1:03 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by islesfan:

That Ranger got what he deserved. What he did just previous to the incident, boarding Simon head first, was a hell of a lot more dangerous than anything Simon did.

What if Simon broke his neck, does the Ranger get off because the refs are blind and didn't call a penalty? Did the Ranger care about the well being of Simon when he hit him from behind into a wall?

Even Barry Melrose said "('that Ranger') did what he was supposed to do and finish his check." I know you're an Isles fan, but come on. I can't believe you're making an argument for aggravated assault with a weapon. I don't care if you think that's board, you can't take a shaft and hit someone in the head--REGARDLESS. Just like if I push you from behind and you go into a wall, you can't sneak up on me and club me in the head with a baseball bat. There is no justification for intent to mame or injure.

I come up behind you and push you forcefully, head first into a wall and you become paralyzed. Do you care what my intent was? Am I innocent or guilty?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
arkrud
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3/10/2007  1:36 AM
I saw the game and replays like 20 times.
Ryan Hollweg hit Simon right after Simon get read of the pack so he WAS finishing the check.
He hit him low and with the body not the hands or stick. Simon was unbalanced and hit the boards but it was not too bad.
Then when Hollweg turns he just hit him with stick somewhere around the neck. This was scary. He used it like a sword to cut his head out. The arena went silent. It was a lot of Islanders fans but I don’t think anybody was happy with this.
By the way at last minute pack was in Rangers net. I am Rangers fan but these guys in Toronto - they blind...

Hockey is contact sport. Same as boxing, wrestling, football. They know what it is about.
But one thing is checks and punches which are expected and another thing when player get hit this
way or like Carmelo did - cowardly. This stuff should be punished. This is unnecessary and criminal.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nykshaknbake
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3/10/2007  3:22 AM
That was horrible. Simon got shaken up by a clean hit. Then he goes and basically does something that could potentially kill someone. He should be banned from the sport. There is no equivalency between Hollweg's hit and Simon's assault. It's a shame he won't be prosecuted.

Watched it again. The hit was just as Simon ditched the puck..no problems there. He seemed to hit him from the side, a nice clean check, the only bad thing being that Simon was bent over a bit so hit his head into the boards. Well glad the Isles lost that one as a result.

[Edited by - nykshaknbake on 03-10-2007 03:45 AM]
MaTT4281
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3/10/2007  10:32 AM
I'm not much of a hockey fan, but I just saw it. Awful.
oohah
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3/10/2007  12:19 PM
Mardy Collins commits a flagrant foul on a show-boater and he is a thug, Isiah is scum, etc.

An Islander tries to kill someone with his stick and the Ranger "got what he deserved".

A window into the soul...

***

Chris Simon needs to face some jail time. I know it's hockey, but he could have taken Ryan Hollweg's life, ended his career, or maimed him.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bobs3304
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3/10/2007  12:36 PM
eh, that was pretty bad.


but hey it happens rarely really.


as a viewer of sports i'd rather it happen rarely than not at all.


take out the competitiveness and you have what --- croquet.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
EnySpree
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3/10/2007  2:23 PM
Posted by oohah:

Mardy Collins commits a flagrant foul on a show-boater and he is a thug, Isiah is scum, etc.

An Islander tries to kill someone with his stick and the Ranger "got what he deserved".

A window into the soul...

***

Chris Simon needs to face some jail time. I know it's hockey, but he could have taken Ryan Hollweg's life, ended his career, or maimed him.

oohah

Well said.

Its just a shame. Its definately a double standard between sports, and also between regular joes and sports figures. If punch a dude cuz he's pushing off, that dude will puss out and press charges. If he doesn't the Y where I play could ban me from playing or void my membership. On top of that I would face some type of assault charge.

Something needs to be done in all sports. It won't until somebody gets killed.
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islesfan
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3/10/2007  2:47 PM
There is absolutely a double standard between the 2 sports. But you also have to take into account the different levels of physicality between them. In basketball it's a foul to touch someone on the arm lightly. In hockey it's expected, and completely within the rules, that someone is going to try to put you through the glass when you go after a puck.

What Mardy Collins did was equivalent to a hockey player checking an opposing player in front of the net. Something that happens on a regular basis and is seen as nothing out of the ordinary. In basketball it's rightfully called a dirty and dangerous takedown.

Not knowing the difference but comparing the two would be a window into the mind of a complete moron.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
SupremeCommander
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3/11/2007  12:49 AM
"After watching the tape the morning after Thursday's game, I was disgusted. There is absolutely no place in hockey for what I did. I want to apologize to Ryan Hollweg. I was grateful to learn that Ryan is okay and that he returned to the game. My hope is to reach out to him in the near future." Chris Simon's words.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Nalod
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3/11/2007  1:22 AM

Im a big Hockey guy and follow this stuff pretty good. I also have had a son play at a high level for 8 years and have a decent understanding.

The guy should get 25-40 games and thats it. Thats a big penalty. No criminal intervention. Thats just politics with someone trying to make a name for him/herself.

Now if you want to put a law on the books that make this a criminal assault the do it and have it argued. But it does not exist yet, so let it be.

When this stuff goes down its ugly and unfortunate. It is amazing given the level of intensity that goes on nite after nite that it does not occur more frequently.

Nobody got hurt this time and for the most part its few and far between.

There is a code that "takes care of its own". The dude with lose major salary and is already regretful.

Since Simon is not a danger to society off the ice then to me its just showcasing the law to bring in criminal charges.
oohah
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3/11/2007  1:42 AM
Since Simon is not a danger to society off the ice then to me its just showcasing the law to bring in criminal charges.

I don't agree. Off the ice or on there is a limit to violent acts. Clotheslining a player with your stick is way beyond any kind of hockey play dirty or otherwise.

He should at least face a day like that player did a while back for cracking that guy over the head with his stick.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Silverfuel
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3/11/2007  10:20 AM
Posted by MaTT4281:

I'm not much of a hockey fan, but I just saw it. Awful.
WTF! Thats ridiculous!! And for some reason the NBA guys are called thugs.
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4949
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3/11/2007  10:27 AM
Posted by islesfan:

That Ranger got what he deserved. What he did just previous to the incident, boarding Simon head first, was a hell of a lot more dangerous than anything Simon did.

What if Simon broke his neck, does the Ranger get off because the refs are blind and didn't call a penalty? Did the Ranger care about the well being of Simon when he hit him from behind into a wall?

Well in that case, if it were to go to court, then both sides should be taken into consideration. It seems the only way to really keep players in all sports from fighting (unless it's acually fighting in a ring, or wrestling) is to hit them hard in their wallets and/or heavy suspensions. The suspensions would ultimately hurt a team and will make a player think twice before acting. I don't think they teach restraint in sports enough, if at all. If a killing takes place, then yes, we're talking about some serious court action. No doubt. Hockey is the worst of the four, with b baseball and basketball being a close second. Football, hell' these guys knock each other around anyway, so there's no real difference.

Now if chess players and people shooting marbles start going at it, then we have a real epidemic on our hands.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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3/11/2007  10:32 AM
Posted by MaTT4281:

I'm not much of a hockey fan, but I just saw it. Awful.

Yeah, just saw it. Guys get checked hard all of the time. He just lost his cool. Can't use the stick though. Big no, no.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Pharzeone
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3/11/2007  10:41 AM
Posted by Nalod:


Im a big Hockey guy and follow this stuff pretty good. I also have had a son play at a high level for 8 years and have a decent understanding.

The guy should get 25-40 games and thats it. Thats a big penalty. No criminal intervention. Thats just politics with someone trying to make a name for him/herself.

Now if you want to put a law on the books that make this a criminal assault the do it and have it argued. But it does not exist yet, so let it be.

When this stuff goes down its ugly and unfortunate. It is amazing given the level of intensity that goes on nite after nite that it does not occur more frequently.

Nobody got hurt this time and for the most part its few and far between.

There is a code that "takes care of its own". The dude with lose major salary and is already regretful.

Since Simon is not a danger to society off the ice then to me its just showcasing the law to bring in criminal charges.

The CBA doesn't protect players from criminal acts and it does not give commissioners the authority to prosecute or enforce criminal laws. Like Envy said if Hollweg died from that play you are telling me that Bettman is going to decide Simon's fate. He intended to assault him with a deadly weapon and did so. That is a criminal act.
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